Afghan woman stoned to death for supposed 'adultery'

[littlebabyjesus]

Superstition is magical thinking. I'm not sure that's what's going on here exactly. It's institutionalised and vicious misogyny, and the religious element is almost irrelevant; after all, you can pick whatever hadiths you want to justify almost anything.

Exactly. It misses the point to focus on any religious justification given to the act. Religion isn't the motivation here. The sense of preserving honour within a viciously patriarchal society is the point. This is nothing to do with religion. It's about keeping girls in line.

 

[DotCommunist]

I've asked myself before, "why stoning?" and I think I've come to an answer of some kind. Let me know if I'm off base.

There seems to be a horrifying logic in the choice of execution method and why it persists - that of diffusion of responsibility. Get everyone in the local area to chuck a few stones at the condemned, and while the overall weight of projectiles ends up killing them, each participant can then go home and sleep well at night, safe under the impression that they personally didn't land the killing blow. The stroke of a sword or the pull of a trigger is a more individual act, with the ones carrying out the act bearing more the burden of responsibility on their shoulders. If I remember the posts of Bakunin on this kind of subject correctly, the job of executioner tends not to be a particularly long-term career choice except under specific circumstances.

Of course I reckon that this only a partial answer, but it might explain some things.

you are forgeting who traditionally would be doing the stoning. Your own community. remember how (well not personally but you know) the gallows, a burning etc were a big day out. Makes for a far more effective tool of social control if you're all complicit in it. By the time hanging was stoped here it was being done by sad faced albert away from all eyes. Removing the spectacle was the start of the process for complete stopping of execution in my very humble opinion

 

[Pickman's model]

Exactly. It misses the point to focus on any religious justification given to the act. Religion isn't the motivation here. The sense of preserving honour within a viciously patriarchal society is the point. This is nothing to do with religion. It's about keeping girls in line.

good to see someone arguing for the purity of religion and its utter innocence for this sort of thing.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

is it?

You've got a "father god", but no corresponding "mother god" for one. Then there's the fact that God is often said to be of no gender but male pronouns are used.

 

[Pickman's model]

You've got a "father god", but no corresponding "mother god" for one. Then there's the fact that God is often said to be of no gender but male pronouns are used.

i am surprised that immediately after i post a link to an article about the great mother - magna mater - you come back with this.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

i am surprised that immediately after i post a link to an article about the great mother - magna mater - you come back with this.

I didn't see the edit you made right away. The "Mother Goddess" you refer to isn't the same deity the Afghanis are referencing.

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn't see the edit you made right away. The "Mother Goddess" you refer to isn't the same deity the Afghanis are referencing.

i am aware of that, i was questioning whether a deity ('god' for shorthand) had to be patriarchal. i am well aware that the vast majority of afghans venerate the islamic notion of god.

 

[NoXion]

i think it's rather more traditional to use stones than to use guns or knives. and i am led to believe that tradition plays a large part in religion.

Traditions arise and survive for a reason, they don't just spontaneously materialise out of the Aether. Ropes are cheap, re-usable and have very low technological requirements, and are certainly old enough that their use could be traditional.

 

[CNT36]

What I mean is that picture seems to show a woman about to be buried to the neck. I thought I had read somewhere that women should only be buried to the waste so that if it's god will they can escape, men to the neck because they are apparently stronger.

I can't help feeling that somewhere someone is tweeting that this is progress.

 

[Pickman's model]

Traditions arise and survive for a reason, they don't just spontaneously materialise out of the Aether. Ropes are cheap, re-usable and have very low technological requirements, and are certainly old enough that their use could be traditional.

yeh on that point the iraqis could have shot saddam hussein, or the afghans shot najibullah. but they chose hanging, although - as you point out - bullets and blades cheap in those necks of the wood.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

i am aware of that, i was questioning whether a deity ('god' for shorthand) had to be patriarchal. i am well aware that the vast majority of afghans venerate the islamic notion of god.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my original statement. I was referring to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic mountain/war god. I supposed that the notion of any god isn't necessarily patriarchal, its just that a lot of the incarnations of god are.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my original statement. I was referring to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic mountain/war god. I supposed that the notion of any god isn't necessarily patriarchal, its just that a lot of the incarnations of god are.

we are in agreement

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

we are in agreement

Sorry, won't happen again!

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry, won't happen again!

i am glad to hear it

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

you are forgeting who traditionally would be doing the stoning. Your own community.

You're there.

Stoning is the punishment for adultery, the whole community lobbing the rocks shows how unacceptable adultery is to everyone in that community.

Sick as fuck way to carry on.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

What is a 'minor' gender inequality? What does this mean?

Male-only panels at conferences, for instance. I've seen this described as patriarchy. Recently, in some benighted corner of the world, a man participated in stoning his daughter to death, because his sense of honour was offended. It might be useful to have enough terminology available to preserve the distinction.

 

[Pickman's model]

Male-only panels at conferences, for instance. I've seen this described as patriarchy. Recently, in some benighted corner of the world, a man participated in stoning his daughter to death, because his sense of honour was offended. It might be useful to have enough terminology available to preserve the distinction.

you should be able to knock together a phrase which preserves the distinction.

 

[sim667]

religion based almost in the stone age.

Sounds like the way the hard right americans insist on describing Islam as a whole to me...... Doesn't sit right with me, but I'm assuming its not intended as it reads.

 

[umop apisdn]

It might be useful to have enough terminology available to preserve the distinction.

you should be able to knock together a phrase which preserves the distinction.

How about...

Male-only panels at conferences

Gender inequality

a man participated in stoning his daughter to death, because his sense of honour was offended.

Sick murdering fuck

 

[Pickman's model]

Maurice Picarda you could learn from this ^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Mr Moose]

we are in agreement

So a better answer to YW's initial post would have been a jaunty agreement along the lines of 'Yes, that's generally but not exclusively so'.

 

[Pickman's model]

So a better answer to YW's initial post would have been a jaunty agreement along the lines of 'Yes, that's generally but not exclusively so'.

pls don't take us on a long dull pedant-a-thon on guy fawkes

 

[Mr Moose]

pls don't take us on a long dull pedant-a-thon on guy fawkes

I think you've missed that you were the one getting a mention for pedantry.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think you've missed that you were the one getting a mention for pedantry.

yeh it's always someone else's fault give it a rest

 

[coley]

does god have to be patriarchal?

There is no 'God' as such, so moot point.

 

[coley]

stones plentiful and free

next

Aye, but most civilisations have left the 'stone age' surprising given the abundance of stones?

 

[Pickman's model]

Aye, but most civilisations have left the 'stone age' surprising given the abundance of stones?

so you say

 

[Pickman's model]

There is no 'God' as such, so moot point.

yeh you're up there with the uberpeds alright.

 

[tim]

Yeah, that's it, really, patriarchy as much as misogyny. How terrifying it is when the term is properly applied, rather than being used to describe minor gender inequalities.

About two women a week are murdered by their male partners in the UK. So, I think the term is as properly applicable here as in a Afghanistan.

 

[Citizen66]

And the 85,000 women raped annually in England and Wales alone suggests patriarchy is alive and well and not just a descriptor for "minor gender inequalities".