Advocate General says independent Scotland would have to reapply to EU

[gosub]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/indepe...pply-to-rejoin-eu-says-lord-wallace-1-2558391

If that's correct, and I can't see why it wouldn't be, then it will also find itself committing to EUro membership, as all late adopters of Maastrict have been made to.

Would also mean they would need the rest of UK's blessing, no entry without agreement of ALL existing members

 

[kebabking]

there's a bit of wiggle room, as there are a number of countries which should have joined the Euro, but haven't - and rather wisely - and perhaps unexpectedly - the EU hasn't pushed the issue. however, in the long run, yes, Scotland would have to join the Euro if it wanted to join the EU.

as with all things EU, the politics take precedence over the law - Scotlands position on not joining the Euro while becoming a member of the EU would be made easier if a friendly, sizable, established EU state were to go into bat for them. what this friendly, sizable, established EU member might want as a quid pro quo might, for example, be the SNP going back on its desire to immediately close down the Faslane Submarine base and to 'work towards a reasonable medium-term solution' on the issue...

Scotland would also be applying to join NATO - if the 2nd-most powerful country in NATO were to object, or insist on the full membership criteria and process to be involved, then that would make life difficult for an SNP franticly trying to shore up its defence policy in the light of public scepticism - of course, if some mutually acceptable deal over the future of, say, Faslane, were to be negotiated, then Scotland joining NATO could be done on a nod and wink basis...

 

[pogofish]

Fine. Let's just get on with it and overcome this and all the obstacles thrown in our path - Its not like England doesn't have an awful lot of previous here!

 

[kebabking]

...Its not like England doesn't have an awful lot of previous here!

i don't know if you've ever been divorced, but one of the first things you notice about divorce settlements is that neither party goes out of its way to give the other party what they want without getting something in return.

if Scotland doesn't want to be 'part of the family' anymore, it would have to be galactically niave to believe that it will be treated as if it were...

 

[pogofish]

if Scotland doesn't want to be 'part of the family' anymore, it would have to be galactically niave to believe that it will be treated as if it were...

Nobody with any long term involvement in modern nationalism has expected it to be anything other than that and are quite ready to start again from nothing at all.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Nobody with any long term involvement in modern nationalism has expected it to be anything other than that and are quite ready to start again from nothing at all.

Which is why the "Yes" vote has rarely touched anything like a majority. Perhaps if Alex tries to get an endorsement from Donald Trump? Again.

 

[19sixtysix]

That is the opinion of the UK government's lawyer in Scotland. As with all things legal other opinions are available.
As to Nato membership I can see no benefit for the defense of Scotland. Not all EU members are in Nato.

 

[danny la rouge]

Independent.

 

[marty21]

Given the number of Tories who hate being in the EU, I'm surprised many more don't support Scottish Independence.

 

[gosub]

That is the opinion of the UK government's lawyer in Scotland. As with all things legal other opinions are available.
As to Nato membership I can see no benefit for the defense of Scotland. Not all EU members are in Nato.

Except they aren't cos Salmond's its not like that but I won't tell you how it is doesn't count as an opinion. Though the Scottish Government has written to European Commission for clarification after Barroso also said about having to reapply last month

 

[gosub]

That is the opinion of the UK government's lawyer in Scotland. As with all things legal other opinions are available.
As to Nato membership I can see no benefit for the defense of Scotland. Not all EU members are in Nato.

But even Ireland and Switzerland (I know it's not in EU) sent troops to assist NATO in Afghanistan

 

[gosub]

Given the number of Tories who hate being in the EU, I'm surprised many more don't support Scottish Independence.

Cos it will weaken any renegotiating position

 

[kebabking]

...As to Nato membership I can see no benefit for the defense of Scotland. Not all EU members are in Nato.

Salmond has said repeatedly - recently, admittedly - that NATO membership is the cornerstone of SNP defence/foreign policy. the policy, called 'High North', is entirely logical, its a maritime based policy that focuses on the north-east Atlantic and Arctic Oceans, and has as its partners Denmark, Norway and Iceland. unfortunately for the SNP, when the SNP started talking to these countries about 'High North', they all made clear that their participation in such a policy would be soley under a NATO auspices, and that they were not interested in bilateral or multilateral, but outside of NATO, arrangements.

Hence the SNP's new found desire to join NATO, and the UK governments new source of leverage over Faslane.

Scotland can of course get its own legal opinion, and for every Lawyer who says that Sotland will, upon independence, automatically become an EU member with the same inherited opt-out rights as the old UK, there'll be another who says that it won't - and again it will come to politics: and to Germany and France, not wishing to offend a country with 55million people will outweigh the risks of offending a country with 5million people.

 

[gosub]

The NATO position within the SNP seems still unsettled unless it's purely what Salmond says goes.

The EU thing not all lawyers are equal and Advocate General is quite a high rank to be dismissive of especially when the SNP are still checking out if their perspective is valid. It's not about politics its about precident and it is Spain that will be the road block, having one eye on Catalonia and the other on the Basques

 

[DownwardDog]

Why wouldn't Scotland just follow the Irish model? Inside the EU, outside NATO and almost totally demilitarised?

 

[marty21]

Cos it will weaken any renegotiating position

Tell the Scottish Tories you won't join the EU- they vote for independence - then change your mind afterwards

 

[kebabking]

Why wouldn't Scotland just follow the Irish model? Inside the EU, outside NATO and almost totally demilitarised?

because, apparently, if its on that model then Salmond won't get the referendum passed.

amazingly, defence/FP has proved to be something of an issue in the campaign/debate so far, and the SNP have had to change their positions on NATO, the Euro, the monarchy, the post independence relationship between Scotland and the rump UK in order to get to the kind of poll figures they're currently getting.

no one believes that this is what Salmond actually thinks of course, but if he wants to win the referendum, then he has to say these things.

 

[gosub]

Tell the Scottish Tories you won't join the EU- they vote for independence - then change your mind afterwards

There's not really enough of em to make a difference. Fortunate really give that woman's speech on tax this week. Was pointless without UK figs for comparison and ignored corporation and other taxes

 

[DownwardDog]

because, apparently, if its on that model then Salmond won't get the referendum passed.

amazingly, defence/FP has proved to be something of an issue in the campaign/debate so far, and the SNP have had to change their positions on NATO, the Euro, the monarchy, the post independence relationship between Scotland and the rump UK in order to get to the kind of poll figures they're currently getting.

no one believes that this is what Salmond actually thinks of course, but if he wants to win the referendum, then he has to say these things.

Well he could spout all that shit, get independence and then go the Irish route anyway. It's not like there's going to be a vibrant grass roots campaign for reunification.

 

[kebabking]

Well he could spout all that shit, get independence and then go the Irish route anyway. It's not like there's going to be a vibrant grass roots campaign for reunification.

depends on how dissapointing the land of post-independence milk and honey is.

the SNP, rather than Salmond, also have to look to their post-independence election prospects: if they promise Denmark or Norway, but deliver Ireland, then they as a party - or what remains of it post-independence - could be badly affected, and their 'legacy' could be in the toilet.

while i think that Salmond is one of the best political operators about - i can't stand him by the way - i'm somewhat heartened to see the 'yes' polls struggling to get above 35% despite the best efforts of possibly the most inept British government of the last 100 years or so. of course, there's a couple of years left for them to rally get into their stride and pull it out of the hat for the SNP...

 

[geminisnake]

And everything the Scotsman prints is true aye?? LIKE FUCK IT IS!! Labour's mouthpiece that's running several millions in the red

 

[gosub]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/uk...wS_K_KSRSs1hqdKNA?docId=N0522441349107043193A

 

[likesfish]

Because the high north while being a "sound policy" for scotland staying out of nato all of its potential partners being in NATO no real advantage for them.

 

[gosub]

Van Rompuy also thinks Scotland would have to reapply

http://m.guardian.co.uk/politics/20...ottish-independence?cat=politics&type=article

 

[ChocolateTeapot]

Van Rompuy also thinks Scotland would have to reapply

http://m.guardian.co.uk/politics/20...ottish-independence?cat=politics&type=article

Would that be a rehash of the Observer article which the newpaper had to print an apology about in that the "new" statement was 18 months old and the question that was asked and was being discussed wasn't even about Scotland?