Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Christ. I'm not the most PC bloke in the world but am shocked this needs spelling out.

 

[toggle]

Christ. I'm not the most PC bloke in the world but am shocked this needs spelling out.

when you've dealt with a bloke whose pick up line is

that's my gf you met earlier, the one with the baby. she gets really jealous of me talking to anyone. can we go back to yours tonight?

and actually gets all confused that it wasn't effective, then comes a realization that some men really are complete fucking idiots.

 

[equationgirl]

Christ. I'm not the most PC bloke in the world but am shocked this needs spelling out.

I don't think it's about being PC though. I think it's more about viewing women as equals and less about seeing them as a possession or something you're entitled to.

 

[andysays]

I don't think it's about being PC though. I think it's more about viewing women as equals and less about seeing them as a possession or something you're entitled to.

This is absolutely what it's about, but given the context of this thread and what we all unfortunately know about how some men still think of women, the campaign you've highlighted seems both necessary and aimed at the right people in the right way - ie targeting problem men and using the idea that most men don't view women as a possession or something you're entitled to.

It actually seems to reflect (not perfectly, but to some extent) what toggle was saying above

i should probably spell this out, not cause you need to be told, but cause this isn't said enough.

it is often said that feminists think all men are rapists. we don't. but there is one group of people who think all men are rapists. and that's rapists. men who rape think that is a normal way to behave. they think that the only men who don't are those who are too scared to act like normal men. hence the abuse thrown from the MRA camps at male feminists.

The campaign seems to be challenging the idea that all/normal/real men behave like that, which is an important message to get across. Whether it will actually be effective is another question.

 

[Cribynkle]

I bloody hope so because in the 30 odd years I've called myself a feminist, it feels like we've taken 3 steps forwards and 4 back

It feels like that to me too, like there's more emphasis on the need for women to be sexually attractive and available than when I was growing up 20 years ago. And even if that's not actually the case, the situation certainly hasn't progressed in that time.

 

[Looby]

There isn't. Women aren't allowed to choose to enjoy sex with a number of different men. It's just not something 'society' recognises as possible without moral judgement.

I've posted about this before but a few months ago I ended up having a bit of a barney with someone about this. He's mates with my friend's boyfriend so I see him occasionally.

He was talking about sex on first dates and said he wouldn't want a relationship with anyone who shagged him on their first date. He'd recently had a date with a woman who had basically dragged him back to her place. He said the sex was great but she was way too desperate.

The conversation went on and on. He stated lack of self respect, too easy, not relationship material etc etc Slag was used at some point.
This bloke went on a date with my lodger and had sex with her on my driveway behind my bins ffs!

I should have said more than I did but I really didn't want to have a full blown argument in front of my other friends. That's one of the only times in my life that I've (momentarily) felt ashamed of my sexual history. Then I was just angry!

 

[Cribynkle]

I've posted about this before but a few months ago I ended up having a bit of a barney with someone about this. He's mates with my friend's boyfriend so I see him occasionally.

He was talking about sex on first dates and said he wouldn't want a relationship with anyone who shagged him on their first date. He'd recently had a date with a woman who had basically dragged him back to her place. He said the sex was great but she was way too desperate.

The conversation went on and on. He stated lack of self respect, too easy, not relationship material etc etc Slag was used at some point.
This bloke went on a date with my lodger and had sex with her on my driveway behind my bins ffs!

I should have said more than I did but I really didn't want to have a full blown argument in front of my other friends. That's one of the only times in my life that I've (momentarily) felt ashamed of my sexual history. Then I was just angry!

On so many levels. I love his assumption that when a woman sleeps with someone she wants a relationship. Also the assumption that a woman would want to have a relationship with such a hypocritical egotistical bellend

 

[ViolentPanda]

One of the things that's been making me cross about this thread: in common with many people, a large proportion of my female friends have been raped or seriously sexually assaulted, all of them have been groped, harassed and abused because they're women. None of them - not one - has seen any kind of justice, and only one of them even went to the police. I know this to be completely normal.

And yet, here we are after 30 pages, and some dickheads' priority is still protecting the men - suggesting that because in some outlandish circumstance that exists only in their mind someone might be wrongfully convicted for rape, then a law that could actually see some women see some justice should be scrapped. Fuck that. You need to look at your priorities.

We won't make headway in changing priorities (or the fervid imaginations of a bunch of slimeballs who see their own immediate gratification as a priority), until we change the structures that allow this sort of assault to be commonplace. I'm not talking about patriarchy per se (although G-d knows patriarchy is implicated), I'm talking about the more immediate structures - a criminal justice system where institutional sexism is ingrained through all elements of the system, from the copper on the beat to the courtroom; a legislature where being a sexist boor is still a matter for congratulation among some members of both Houses; an education system that still militates against women studying "male" subjects, etc etc etc.
Until we change that, scum like Evans and his evangelists will keep on assuming (in spite of law to the contrary) that "right" is on their side. Until we come down hard on sexism every time it is manifested, and the message of actual equality is hammered home, things won't get better, they'll just keep on getting worse.

 

[ViolentPanda]

forget what? he won't believe there is any problem, because he won't believe he did anything wrong.

And unfortunately attitudes in wider male society, but especially within our political and legal Establishments, tends to reinforce that belief. As long as we have people who believe in and proffer rape myths as justifications fro crime, and as long as people buy into them, we're snookered.

 

[toggle]

And unfortunately attitudes in wider male society, but especially within our political and legal Establishments, tends to reinforce that belief. As long as we have people who believe in and proffer rape myths as justifications fro crime, and as long as people buy into them, we're snookered.

eg. a not guilty verdict does not mean the victim has been proven a liar

 

[hash tag]

For anyone who may be sitting on the touchline still, does this help? http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...a-teammate-9822204.html?origin=internalSearch

 

[marty21]

I've posted about this before but a few months ago I ended up having a bit of a barney with someone about this. He's mates with my friend's boyfriend so I see him occasionally.

He was talking about sex on first dates and said he wouldn't want a relationship with anyone who shagged him on their first date. He'd recently had a date with a woman who had basically dragged him back to her place. He said the sex was great but she was way too desperate.

The conversation went on and on. He stated lack of self respect, too easy, not relationship material etc etc Slag was used at some point.
This bloke went on a date with my lodger and had sex with her on my driveway behind my bins ffs!

I should have said more than I did but I really didn't want to have a full blown argument in front of my other friends. That's one of the only times in my life that I've (momentarily) felt ashamed of my sexual history. Then I was just angry!

I slept with mrs21 before our first date in 1992 , I never understood this 'slag' 'easy' 'desperate' thing - I was always so grateful someone would want to have sex with me

 

[sleepy555]

This thread has reminded me of something that happened years ago. I was very drunk after an evening out with friends and a friend of a friend took me back to my flat. I remember being a bit flirty with him (because I did quite fancy him) but I really don't remember anything from the point we got home. When I woke up, my first thought was 'oh god, I bet L and I have had sex and I really didn't want to' and I was so, so relieved to find that he hadn't 'taken advantage' of me. He had instead put me to bed, fully clothed and gone home.

How fucked up is that? To be so grateful that my friend didn't rape me? I'm fairly most men wouldn't, but my expectation was that he would. I think this thread demonstrates the importance of consent in spades. There are a lot of men who don't seem to understand that asking a drunk woman for overt consent is absolutely crucial. I really don't see why that's so difficult. Unless of course you want to fuck her whether she really wants to or not.

 

[xenon]

 

[Wilf]

wtf

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Doesn't seem an at all appropriate reply to TP's post (edited to add I think TP's post pretty much nails any argument about the wrongness of having sex with someone who is unconscious...as if that argument needed nailing). Is it just a failed unfunny joke joke, or are you suggesting something else?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[toggle]

definitely got to wonder why someone joins to add that

 

[butchersapron]

Any sort of sexist knobbers been banned recently?

 

[toggle]

jv on tempban is the mot recent

 

[trashpony]

Interesting only post (although a good reminder that this forum is wide open to the world next time I feel the need to divulge parts of my own life to make a point)

 

[Christy29]

Seems old bill are now investigating Evans' website as it didn't have permission to use the video of Evans' victim from police, CPS or hotel.

I was wondering where you got this bit of guff from - the Ched Evans site - and you've added the reference in because it wasn't bloody there originally. You're seriously quoting that as a reputable source of information?

It's also not bloody true - which I think you've since realised because you've quoted the appeal transcript extensively. Pretty grim that you haven't retracted it

The cap seemed to fit.


potentially. I didn't expect that everyone involved in drunken sex would suddenly find themselves locked up, just that they were more vulnerable to it if this was how the law was to be applied more widely.

I've no idea how pissed or otherwise Evans was or claims to have been, but I doubt he was entirely sober either after a night out on the town with his mates.


bollocks, never said this, never implied it.


you mean other than the bits where I've specifically said that I don't think she lied, and the amount that she had drunk in that space of time was IMO sufficient to induce alcoholic blackout?


people keep referring to these lies, but I've not seen anyone actually state what they're supposed to be, so yes I'll ignore it until someone gives some specifics.

I don't actually give a fuck how it looks. This is or was Urban 75 not fucking mumsnet last time I looked.

 

[marty21]

 

[el-ahrairah]

great post Christy29 any chance you could tell us what it means.

 

[Roadkill]

great post Christy29 any chance you could tell us what it means.

Look at the profile.

I confidently predict this one won't last long.

 

[el-ahrairah]

a single issue idiot

 

[Citizen66]

Why, what's so revealing about the profile? I know we all pretty much expect newbies to be banned returners with an agenda but it must be pretty daunting for someone new and trying to get to grips with the forum to deal with the hostile suspicion when we get it wrong.

 

[Wilf]

Look at the profile.

I confidently predict this one won't last long.

Who has already been banned, on this page!

 

[Citizen66]

Jesus wept. Banned for what reason?

 

[Wilf]

Jesus wept. Banned for what reason?

I was guessing sleepy was the same person. If so, dunno, banned for a dodgy post, or as returner?

Edit - 884 was flameworthy rather than banworthy to me.

 

[andysays]

Why, what's so revealing about the profile? I know we all pretty much expect newbies to be banned returners with an agenda but it must be pretty daunting for someone new and trying to get to grips with the forum to deal with the hostile suspicion when we get it wrong.

Their profile reads

Clearly, Ched Evans was framed by despicable Police & C.P.S.not act when our raped-by-Moslems-schoolgirls asked for help

just someone new and trying to get to grips with the forum, innit