Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Highly ignorant post. Regardless of what may or may not have caused existing shortages, a trade war and blockades will cause more.
A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
gosub
~#
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Part of the problem for Remain is the fact that, politically speaking, it’s an empty vessel, as this contribution from the labour spokesperson demonstrates. As this - presumable Blairite - demonstrates they are utterly disorientated by a result that damaged everything they thought about themselves and their position as the narrating class. They have been unable to move beyond the trauma and remain politically paralysed and therefore irrelevant as a result.
I’ve been asking for months on here for someone to set out some ideas and a coherent position and programme on the future but there is no interest in their side doing so. Instead they claim that because the result didn’t go their way they are absolved of dealing with the here and now.
Now we have a complex and overlapping set of issues arising from the shutdown of the global economy due to covid, supply shortages and labour shortages. All of which is being compounder by a government of incompetent and clueless bunch of public schoolboys. And yet still the remainers sit whining about the referendum and Brexit rather than the present. I’ve given up trying to get any sense out of them, they are trapped in their own nostalgia for an imagined past
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Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Leave won.
It’s their idea.
The here and now is down to the leave winners to enact, and remainers are at liberty to react.
If somebody thinks the whole thing is a shitshow, and was always going to be one, then why should they participate?
I would say that remainers have moved way past rejoin, and are now observing and criticising.
That isn’t even a negative, maybe somewhere within the criticism a leaver might decide that a particular aspect of what they’re doing is a shitshow so they stop doing it.
Like reneging on a treaty.
It’s their idea.
The here and now is down to the leave winners to enact, and remainers are at liberty to react.
If somebody thinks the whole thing is a shitshow, and was always going to be one, then why should they participate?
I would say that remainers have moved way past rejoin, and are now observing and criticising.
That isn’t even a negative, maybe somewhere within the criticism a leaver might decide that a particular aspect of what they’re doing is a shitshow so they stop doing it.
Like reneging on a treaty.
bimble
floofy
Hows it going with the whole Capitalism is Faltering thing Smokeandsteam, that was one of your benefits of brexit wasn't it. Are we there yet.
I blame people for voting for Corbyn to be head of Labour Party, making them unelectable and allowing Tories to get reelected when they were a shower of shite
MysteryGuest
beyond boring and interesting
at the idea of Yossarian being a blairite. 
ska invita
back on the other side
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Neoliberalism, Bimble and there is an entire thread on it if you've got any thing to say/add. Here is a starter:
Reading Recommendations: Neoliberalism and the nation state.
Budgen spotted encouraging copy-right busting piracy on email list not 15 minutes ago.
www.urban75.net
As for capitalism failing, have you looked at the world recently or has your entire focus remained frozen in 2016?
andysays
Love and solidarity
And we would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for you pesky meddling kids...
bimble
floofy
The referendum was a long time ago, you're the one haunted by this ghostly presence of 'continuity remain'. I'm just interested in watching actual brexit playing out. You listed capitalism faltering as one of your brexit benefits, specifically. i have not observed this happening particularly more in the UK since 1st jan thats all.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
And this translates to individual remainers. You have those who voted remain but accepted the result and now want to get on and make the best of it; and those like many on here who are still having tantrums and want to smash it all up. There's a palpable sense of satisfaction when problems occur. Despite the fact that they'll be affected, it means more to them to be able to bank the perceived "told you so" points.
andysays
Love and solidarity
If the shortages of various products and workers with appropriate skills we've been discussing for the last six months or however long it's been aren't examples of capitalism faltering, I really don't know what you would consider good examples.
bimble
floofy
oh i see! on that basis then yes fair enough. I was sort of thinking we'd need to see some signs of attempts to solve these issues with something other than more capitalsim (its up to businesses to sort it out/ emergency visas) in order for it to count but i see what you mean.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
And this translates to individual remainers. You have those who voted remain but accepted the result and now want to get on and make the best of it; and those like many on here who are still having tantrums and want to smash it all up. There's a palpable sense of satisfaction when problems occur. Despite the fact that they'll be affected, it means more to them to be able to bank the perceived "told you so" points.
As Larry Elliot recently pointed out that approach might give the individual some satisfaction, but as a form of political praxis it's 'an ugly look'. As you say most of the remain voters, all that I know personally, have long accepted the result (whilst not liking it) and have moved on, living as they do in the real world. But there is a rump - 'continuity remain' - who can't move on.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Get on and make the best of it?And this translates to individual remainers. You have those who voted remain but accepted the result and now want to get on and make the best of it; and those like many on here who are still having tantrums and want to smash it all up. There's a palpable sense of satisfaction when problems occur. Despite the fact that they'll be affected, it means more to them to be able to bank the perceived "told you so" points.
Any particular ‘it’ you have in mind?
Whatever the ‘it’ is, it isn’t what was on the ballot paper.
This is fuck all to do with I told you so points, but reaction to the ongoing practical consequences of whatever ‘it’ is.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Interesting use of hauntological language Bimble. It is a useful way of thinking about continuity remain: cancelled futures causing a paralysis of political thought and action. I hadn't considered the psychological manifestations of CR before, thanks for that.
Yossarian
⏭️
While there is a certain amount of lashing out whenever anybody takes the piss out of the shifting goalposts on Brexit, I'm hoping the person being referred to as a Blairite and a Labour spokesperson was the person speaking in the Aaron Bastani tweet.
bimble
floofy
what do you mean by cancelled futures?
gosub
~#
Yep should have stuck with the fella who went to the effort of having a load of policies etched into a monolith and then said the policies weren't set in stone. At least you knew you were dealing with
gosub
~#
Dd you not get the memo about Keith's victory party?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
While there is a certain amount of lashing out whenever anybody takes the piss out of the shifting goalposts on Brexit, I'm hoping the person being referred to as a Blairite and a Labour spokesperson was the person speaking in the Aaron Bastani tweet.
I was wondering if that what that early post was about. The answer is the presumed Blairite I referred to is the Labour spokesperson. I thought that was fairly clear from the post: clearly not!
bimble
floofy
oh, i thought he might have meant cancelled futures as in people being sad cos they can't retire to south of france anymore.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Don't be ridiculous. You're just a big old crybaby.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
But wanting retainers to "make the best of it" is expecting those holding the conservative position to embrace the radical.And this translates to individual remainers. You have those who voted remain but accepted the result and now want to get on and make the best of it; and those like many on here who are still having tantrums and want to smash it all up. There's a palpable sense of satisfaction when problems occur. Despite the fact that they'll be affected, it means more to them to be able to bank the perceived "told you so" points.
I'd also be interested to hear more of what "making the best of it" might actually amount to for remain voters many of whom presumably neither own the means of production nor engage in the organised labour movement.
Never met a single one
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I really don't see where this notion comes from; those opposed to the 1975 ratification of the UK's accession in1973 never relented, and after 41 years succeeded in overturning the result.
Why do leavers assume that those opposed to exiting the suprastate should suddenly be converted?
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