A thank you to Brexiteers.

[editor]

Always amazes me how so many continuity remainers don’t seem to have ever sat down with someone who voted leave and had a discussion .

No idea what a 'continuity remainer' is, but I've certainly had plenty of sit down discussions with what I suppose you'd call 'continuity leavers.'

I can't see I've ever heard many compelling reasons why Brexit has been worth all the division, acrimony and cost, much like here.

 

[brogdale]

It’s based on a survey of 3,000 people carried out by an opinion poll company so it’s not that revealing or particularly rigorous in terms of methodology.

There are a raft of other studies - quoted on here on various threads - that offer a different perspective

With one of the most obvious methodological weaknesses prone to conceal the 'two-fingers' motivation being that the categories are always pre-determined as a list of rational options. that's always going to underplay the motivations more firmly anchored in the affective domain.

 

[dessiato]

I have friends who voted remain and have never fallen out with them over the issue . Obviously I don’t know personally and have never met any of the lunatic fringe .

A colleague of mine, lives in Jerez, operates his own business, lives with his Spanish girlfriend, voted Brexit. It was, he says, an anti Tory protest vote.

 

[brogdale]

A colleague of mine, lives in Jerez, operates his own business, lives with his Spanish girlfriend, voted Brexit. It was, he says, an anti Tory protest vote.

Sock it to the man!

 

[andysays]

Much better to rely on a half baked academic survey based on data obtained by a polling company. Better that is if you want to erroneously paint leave voters as racist flag waver types...

That's anti-creative racist flag waver types, if you don't mind...

 

[andysays]

No idea what a 'continuity remainer' is, but I've certainly had plenty of sit down discussions with what I suppose you'd call 'continuity leavers.'

I can't see I've ever heard many compelling reasons why Brexit has been worth all the division, acrimony and cost, much like here.

I can't say this comes as much of a surprise.

Given that you were and still are strongly against Brexit, I would expect that reasons compelling to those of us who wanted to Leave won't be compelling for you, just as many of the reasons you consider compelling for Remaining aren't that compelling for those of us who chose to Leave.

 

[glitch hiker]

It’s based on a survey of 3,000 people carried out by an opinion poll company so it’s not that revealing or particularly rigorous in terms of methodology.

There are a raft of other studies - quoted on here on various threads - that offer a different perspective

If you have better evidence I'm happy to take a look.

Voting Leave: what were the underlying factors behind the Brexit vote?

The outcome of the 2016 UK EU membership referendum was rather shocking as many polls preceding the referendum pointed towards a majority for the continued participation of the UK in the EU. In this research report we try to understand the underlying reasons which may have led a majority of...

www.kbc.com

Making sense of the Brexit tide of reaction and the reality of the racist vote - New Politics

The Leave / Brexit vote in the referendum came in the end as a surprise, a narrow win for Remain was expected. This may be because the core Leave vote was in the run-down white working class communities of the now desolate English and Welsh industrial zones. A population trapped in conditions of...

newpol.org

While I'm loathe to support Ashcroft there's his poll

How the UK voted on Brexit, and why - a refresher - Lord Ashcroft Polls

On 23 June 2016 I conducted a survey of over 12,000 people who had just voted in the EU referendum. With the politicians still talking and the 29 March deadline looming, it is worth reading again how the country voted, and why. * 24 June 2016 The UK has voted to leave the European Union. On...

lordashcroftpolls.com

most working class didn't vote leave.

 

[bimble]

Strongest predictor for voting leave was owning property wasnt it.
oh yeah here it is Mind the Gap: Why Wealthy Voters Support Brexit by Jane Green, Raluca L. Pahontu :: SSRN

 

[Pickman's model]

I think that's a bit of a misconception.

never mind

 

[Pickman's model]

OK, Pickman's model - what is tgtmtbftw?

These Government Twats Mean That Brexit's For The Wealthy?

No one expected a Tory government to make things better for the workers. No one expects a tg tmtbftw.
so a tg tmtbftw obviously a tory government to make things better for the workers.

if you find abbreviations which have already been explained hard on the auld grey cells perhaps you'd be better off on another less challenging site.

 

[Pickman's model]

3,000 people is still a decent sample size

Sample Size: How Many Survey Participants Do I Need?

How to determine the correct sample size for a survey.

www.sciencebuddies.org

yeh right because size is all that matters. perhaps geographical spread and age distribution (not to mention sex and class) ought to be in there somewhere.

 

[Dystopiary]

No one expected a Tory government to make things better for the workers. No one expects a tg tmtbftw.
so a tg tmtbftw obviously a tory government to make things better for the workers.

if you find abbreviations which have already been explained hard on the auld grey cells perhaps you'd be better off on another less challenging site.

FYYC.

 

[JimW]

With one of the most obvious methodological weaknesses prone to conceal the 'two-fingers' motivation being that the categories are always pre-determined as a list of rational options. that's always going to underplay the motivations more firmly anchored in the affective domain.

This is similar to what I was going to say, the "sovereignty" category strikes me as a bubble-speak catch-all that sort of covers but in many ways misses the hostility to a distant political juggernaut.

 

[ska invita]

Strongest predictor for voting leave was owning property wasnt it.
oh yeah here it is Mind the Gap: Why Wealthy Voters Support Brexit by Jane Green, Raluca L. Pahontu :: SSRN

Tories delivering for their core voters

UK house prices jump by 10.9%, could speed up further- Nationwide

British house prices jumped by an annual 10.9%, the most innearly seven years, and they look set to accelerate further as people seek new homes after the pandemic, mortgage lender Nationwide said.

www.reuters.com

 

[brogdale]

This is similar to what I was going to say, the "sovereignty" category strikes me as a bubble-speak catch-all that sort of covers but in many ways misses the hostility to a distant political juggernaut.

And as I've wittered on about before on here, I remember speaking with neighbours etc back in 2016 around my way who cited 'sovereignty' as a motivator...because we all want to keep the Queen, don't we?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

With one of the most obvious methodological weaknesses prone to conceal the 'two-fingers' motivation being that the categories are always pre-determined as a list of rational options. that's always going to underplay the motivations more firmly anchored in the affective domain.

Precisely. Having looked at the polling questions participants were asked to choose from a list rather than interviewed as to their motivations and allowed to speak in their own voice.

 

[philosophical]

Much better to rely on a half baked academic survey based on data obtained by a polling company. Better that is if you want to erroneously paint leave voters as racist flag waver types...

Leave voters are the type that voted for the whole of the UK to leave the whole of the EU.
Two separate systems divided by a border.
Including a land border on the island of Ireland.
Leave voters are still waiting to get what they voted for, and remain voters are still waiting for leave voters to describe in practical detail how the line of separation between the whole of the UK will operate on the island of Ireland, to enable ‘leave’ to be made manifest.
In the absence of any solution to be suggested it leaves a vacuum, and that space is somewhere for flag waving racists to move their hateful racist flag engraved Petri dish to in order to fester more xenophobic hatred.
A lot of assumptions about the racist nature of leave voters could have been avoided, if the leave voters had suggested a real practical peaceful universally accepted solution to the land border taking into account the reality on the island of Ireland.
Until leave voters come up with a solution to what they have called on, my assumption is they’re racists...especially anti Irish racists.
Continually declaring they voted leave for good reasons and not because of hatred would be more credible if leave voters suggested a border solution. Whinging and whining that it’s unfair they’re viewed by some as racists is a diddums reaction to something they called on all by themselves.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

If you have better evidence I'm happy to take a look.

Voting Leave: what were the underlying factors behind the Brexit vote?

The outcome of the 2016 UK EU membership referendum was rather shocking as many polls preceding the referendum pointed towards a majority for the continued participation of the UK in the EU. In this research report we try to understand the underlying reasons which may have led a majority of...

www.kbc.com

Making sense of the Brexit tide of reaction and the reality of the racist vote - New Politics

The Leave / Brexit vote in the referendum came in the end as a surprise, a narrow win for Remain was expected. This may be because the core Leave vote was in the run-down white working class communities of the now desolate English and Welsh industrial zones. A population trapped in conditions of...

newpol.org

While I'm loathe to support Ashcroft there's his poll

How the UK voted on Brexit, and why - a refresher - Lord Ashcroft Polls

On 23 June 2016 I conducted a survey of over 12,000 people who had just voted in the EU referendum. With the politicians still talking and the 29 March deadline looming, it is worth reading again how the country voted, and why. * 24 June 2016 The UK has voted to leave the European Union. On...

lordashcroftpolls.com

most working class didn't vote leave.

You might start by reading your own links...

From the KBC report "Hence, those who voted ‘Leave’, did so despite evidence-based research on the negative impact of leaving on conventional macroeconomic measures of economic performance such as GDP. However, as the paragraphs above illustrate, it might be argued that those voting leave came significantly from groups who already felt marginalised from the fruits of strong economic performance, such as those experiencing less access to public services or further education and this might render potential economic losses from Brexit less important to them. Instead, for these groups, “pure” Brexit arguments centred on ‘taking back control’ lost in the existing UK-EU relationship and highlighted issues such as sovereignty, avoiding EU bureaucracy and stopping UK financial flows towards the EU. These drivers were amplified by a more general sense of displacement and a loss of identity that emphasised considerations such as migration, dissatisfaction with and disconnect from political institutions and the ‘establishment’ These are often related to the context in which the referendum took place. .

 

[Dystopiary]

Tories delivering for their core voters

UK house prices jump by 10.9%, could speed up further- Nationwide

British house prices jumped by an annual 10.9%, the most innearly seven years, and they look set to accelerate further as people seek new homes after the pandemic, mortgage lender Nationwide said.

www.reuters.com

Well I've never encountered a remotely good argument in favour of Brexit from anyone who's skint.

 

[glitch hiker]

You might start by reading your own links...

From the KBC report "Hence, those who voted ‘Leave’, did so despite evidence-based research on the negative impact of leaving on conventional macroeconomic measures of economic performance such as GDP. However, as the paragraphs above illustrate, it might be argued that those voting leave came significantly from groups who already felt marginalised from the fruits of strong economic performance, such as those experiencing less access to public services or further education and this might render potential economic losses from Brexit less important to them. Instead, for these groups, “pure” Brexit arguments centred on ‘taking back control’ lost in the existing UK-EU relationship and highlighted issues such as sovereignty, avoiding EU bureaucracy and stopping UK financial flows towards the EU. These drivers were amplified by a more general sense of displacement and a loss of identity that emphasised considerations such as migration, dissatisfaction with and disconnect from political institutions and the ‘establishment’ These are often related to the context in which the referendum took place. .

I was posting those links in respect of the claim that people voted leave because "Much of the leave vote too was two fingers to the fat pigs in Westminster."
I guess you can interpret those votes accordingly, and maybe I'm just not scholarly enough, but I don't get that interpretation from the above. Sorry.

never mind

If you have better evidence, please. Like I said I've no problem being corrected.

 

[bimble]

Tories delivering for their core voters

UK house prices jump by 10.9%, could speed up further- Nationwide

British house prices jumped by an annual 10.9%, the most innearly seven years, and they look set to accelerate further as people seek new homes after the pandemic, mortgage lender Nationwide said.

www.reuters.com

Yep, its absolutely mental. The whole stamp duty holiday was probably stupider even than eat out to help out, cos this house price bonanza would have happened anyway.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you have better evidence, please. Like I said I've no problem being corrected.

i don't need any better evidence being as nothing you have submitted contradicts my statement.

 

[discokermit]

this is what the so called anti racist liberals want to be a part of,

 

[gosub]

I might be switching to continuity remain as I've just discovered that Openshaw Pork Scratchings no longer deliver to Europe. Surely a separate trade deal could be negotiated and a separate thread set up on here.

Something something pigs ear

 

[glitch hiker]

i don't need any better evidence being as nothing you have submitted contradicts my statement.

I just asked if you had any better evidence. Why get testy about it?

 

[Pickman's model]

this is what the so called anti racist liberals want to be a part of,

it does seem a strange use for it being as it's more usually used (as in i think the united states and canada) in public order situations or against demonstrators.

 

[Pickman's model]

I just asked if you had any better evidence. Why get testy about it

oh, in that case 'yes'

 

[glitch hiker]

oh, in that case 'yes'

So why not share it?

 

[existentialist]

I can't say this comes as much of a surprise.

Given that you were and still are strongly against Brexit, I would expect that reasons compelling to those of us who wanted to Leave won't be compelling for you, just as many of the reasons you consider compelling for Remaining aren't that compelling for those of us who chose to Leave.

Not wanting to get into the postural hair-splitting too much, but is asking someone who is evidently committed to a particular - and far-reaching - policy what they were expecting to get out of it really such an unreasonable thing to do?

I haven't gone as far as to look for compelling reasons from Leave voters - any reason would have done - but the best I've ever managed to get is some handwavery about immigration, bullshit about regulations (straight banana type stuff), and a lot of rantiness about "sovereignty". All of which is fairly transparently not looking like any likely consequence of Brexit.

About the most "compelling" reason I've heard so far has been people admitting that it was a protest vote.

 

[Pickman's model]

So why not share it?

yes, i had better evidence. not sure where i've put it tho.