A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Fozzie Bear]

"while the EU was based on learning the lessons of centuries of conflict within Europe that culminated in the Second World War, and gradually also came to incorporate the collective memory of the Holocaust into its narrative, “pro-Europeans” did not even attempt to learn the lessons of what Europeans had done to the rest of the world and never had anything to say about the history of colonialism.."

The thing is though, as he himself says, the 'anti-european' forces that are setting the agenda now, as Europe becomes more "embattled" - they're coming from the right, from anti-globalisation nationalisms, anti-muslim, anti-immigrant etc, so instead of being more internationalist and less ethnocentric they're the exact opposite of that. I think he has a point, but it would be an absurd misreading to come away thinking, yeah, the European project is racist so anti-european forces are less racist. Out of the the frying pan etc.

I think that misreading is unlikely bimble, as we’ve all had it drilled into us that opposition to the EU in the UK is purely the preserve of thicko gammon racists. As opposed to remainers who are all staunch internationalists and anti-racists.

I thought that article was an interesting complication to that conversation, with some good insights into the trajectory of the EU now.

 

[bimble]

I think that misreading is unlikely bimble, as we’ve all had it drilled into us that opposition to the EU in the UK is purely the preserve of thicko gammon racists. As opposed to remainers who are all staunch internationalists and anti-racists.

I thought that article was an interesting complication to that conversation, with some good insights into the trajectory of the EU now.

Yeah, but that quote, the idea that 'pro-europeans' are a bunch of people who have never thought about colonialism is just daft isn't it. And it's not like everyone who is 'pro European' can match the UK's record of having invaded most of the countries on the planet.

 

[krtek a houby]

I think that misreading is unlikely bimble, as we’ve all had it drilled into us that opposition to the EU in the UK is purely the preserve of thicko gammon racists. As opposed to remainers who are all staunch internationalists and anti-racists.

I thought that article was an interesting complication to that conversation, with some good insights into the trajectory of the EU now.

Tbf, only leavers are using the words "thick' and "thicko" at this stage. It's a bit odd, given that they won.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Yeah, but that quote, the idea that 'pro-europeans' are a bunch of people who have never thought about colonialism is just daft isnt it.

Well that they never had anything to say about it. I honestly don’t know. There is finally a bit of a reconsideration of colonialism here post-Colston. I’m not aware of similar stuff happening on mainland Europe amongst the pro-EU lot.

Obviously it is prominent in Ireland.

 

[bimble]

Well that they never had anything to say about it. I honestly don’t know. There is finally a bit of a reconsideration of colonialism here post-Colston. I’m not aware of similar stuff happening on mainland Europe amongst the pro-EU lot.

Obviously it is prominent in Ireland.

There's definitely a lot of interesting stuff where the reckoning with colonialism & empire meets brexit. I think Germany's centrality to & pushing of the EU agenda is tightly bound up with its decades of intense and self conscious thinking about its own history whilst we are just now having a sort of ugly internal fight about ours.

 

[krtek a houby]

There's definitely a lot of interesting stuff where the reckoning with colonialism & empire meets brexit. I think Germany's centrality to & pushing of the EU agenda is tightly bound up with its decades of intense and self conscious thinking about its own history whilst we are just now having a sort of ugly internal fight about ours.

Often see comment from right wingers (not Brexit voters) who repeatedly claim that Europe has been "overrun" and lost its culture etc. Wonder how the article would sit with them, when it exposes the very white culture of the EU?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Tbf, only leavers are using the words "thick' and "thicko" at this stage. It's a bit odd, given that they won.

Yeah, many Remain supporters do seem to have twigged just how ugly it was and now prefer to smugly hint at it instead. The quiet fury of the English middle classes etc

 

[bimble]

Often see comment from right wingers (not Brexit voters) who repeatedly claim that Europe has been "overrun" and lost its culture etc. Wonder how the article would sit with them, when it exposes the very white culture of the EU?

It's those voices who the article's about, its saying about how they are shaping things now.
5 years ago when Merkel said 'we can do this' about Germany taking in 1 million refugees, it rallied all the anti-immigration forces and i dont think she'd say that again now, climate's changed.

How Angela Merkel’s great migrant gamble paid off

Five years ago, as more and more refugees crossed into Europe, Germany’s chancellor proclaimed, ‘We’ll manage this.’ Critics said it was her great mistake – but she has been proved right

www.theguardian.com

 

[krtek a houby]

Yeah, many Remain supporters do seem to have twigged just how ugly it was and now prefer to smugly hint at it instead. The quiet fury of the English middle classes etc

Tbf, there's a fair old bit of hinting and smugness on both "sides".

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Tbf, there's a fair old bit of hinting and smugness on both "sides".

True

 

[Supine]

Research finding indicates brexit has raised costs for a household by £870 per year.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/iere.12541

 

[Badgers]

Research finding indicates brexit has raised costs for a household by £870 per year.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/iere.12541

Is that a Moonlit Upland?

 

[bimble]

Other countries newspapers - less polite about our predicament than our own.

The hard reality of Brexit is hitting Britain. It's costing everyone but Boris Johnson

From one end of the supply chain to the other, the UK's food producers have endured a summer of trouble.

edition.cnn.com

 

[bimble]

the times has a story today about how the bulgarian fruit pickers have been replaced this year by people from far further afield, whoever agrees to come here basically, with their flights paid for by the farm owners. This doesn't seem particularly better or more sustainable tbh.

Hunt for fruit pickers extends 6,000 miles as shortage bites

Fruit pickers are being flown up to 6,000 miles to the UK from Barbados, Nepal, Tajikistan, Kenya, the Philippines and elsewhere because farms cannot find Brit

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Pickman's model]

the times has a story today about how the bulgarian fruit pickers have been replaced this year by people from far further afield, whoever agrees to come here basically, with their flights paid for by the farm owners. This doesn't seem particularly better or more sustainable tbh.

View attachment 288148 View attachment 288149

Hunt for fruit pickers extends 6,000 miles as shortage bites

Fruit pickers are being flown up to 6,000 miles to the UK from Barbados, Nepal, Tajikistan, Kenya, the Philippines and elsewhere because farms cannot find Brit

www.thetimes.co.uk

It is of a piece with the trend of EU migration being replaced by non-eu migration

 

[krtek a houby]

It is of a piece with the trend of EU migration being replaced by non-eu migration

Global Britain!

 

[Sasaferrato]

Didn't most the good folk of Cornwall vote leave?

Ah well...

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

 

[Badgers]

UK government threatens to suspend Northern Ireland protocol | Brexit | The Guardian

Brexit minister David Frost tells House of Lords that the European Commission must take renegotiation proposals seriously

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Artaxerxes]

 

[Duncan2]

If it is now uncontroversial that Brexit has had /is having the effect of giving low paid workers (home grown and otherwise) a voice at work which has been denied to them for a decade and more isn't it inevitable that the Tories will start to resile from strict controls upon immigration in the coming months or even weeks? How long can they remain at loggerheads with the CBI and Business more generally without risking some kind of revolt on their own back-benches?Genuine question.

 

[Raheem]

View attachment 288201

Not linking the Express shows good taste. But, if you read the article, it seems like the crown stamp isn't actually being reintroduced, although manufacturers will be allowed (ie no law says they can't) to put it on as bit of meaningless decoration.

 

[two sheds]

if you read the article

 

[Raheem]

I offer no defence, but I did wash my eyes for two rounds of Happy Birthday afterwards.

 

[ska invita]

If it is now uncontroversial that Brexit has had /is having the effect of giving low paid workers (home grown and otherwise) a voice at work which has been denied to them for a decade and more

its not uncontroversial, its inaccurate
which low paid workers are you thinking of?

 

[two sheds]

I do feel this increase in wages is very narrow in scope and also very temporary. As soon as they've got enough drivers, wages and conditions will worsen.

Can't see it working its way through to Cornwall, either. Ex neighbour used to work for Cornish transport company (I may have said) and he ended up with unpaid overtime often working at below minimum wage for driving a huge fuck-off truck through the night.

Did have a carpenter do some work for me a few years ago and he hated Blair and therefore Labour with a passion because of the Eastern Europeans who came across and forced down wages those years ago. He'd also become (?) pretty racist and Sun reading I presume that was related.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

If it is now uncontroversial that Brexit has had /is having the effect of giving low paid workers (home grown and otherwise) a voice at work which has been denied to them for a decade and more isn't it inevitable that the Tories will start to resile from strict controls upon immigration in the coming months or even weeks? How long can they remain at loggerheads with the CBI and Business more generally without risking some kind of revolt on their own back-benches?Genuine question.

That’s a good question. On one hand Johnson and Co recognise that rising wages are very popular and speaks to their new voters in the ‘red wall’. They also think labour scarcity will absorb some of the fall out from the ending of the furlough (which everyone seems to have forgotten about) as higher pay rates in large parts of the economy will encourage the newly unemployed to work in new sectors. On the other, as you suggest, an alliance of capital, boss representatives, continuity remain and the right wing of the Tory Party are demanding sector by sector relaxation of visas.

I suspect the answer to your question is that they’ll continue to try to ride both horses until a) the fallout from the end of furlough is better known and b) until the ‘rising prices’ narrative more deeply resonates with its base proper.

As an aside the silence of Labour on this stuff is pretty amazing. It was once a party interested in production, the economy and its potential in delivering economic justice.

 

[two sheds]

I wouldn't be surprised if low-paid work picking veg etc weren't used against the unemployed: "well the jobs are out there, not our problem if you can't pay the rent"

 

[bimble]

how the hell did i not know the word resile before?
But there won’t be any big announcement or climbdown , just more fiddling with the ‘shortage occupations’ list & temp visas to try to plug the gaps.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I wouldn't be surprised if low-paid work picking veg etc weren't used against the unemployed: "well the jobs are out there, not our problem if you can't pay the rent"

Yes, definitely. There will be a section of the Tory Party who will believe that there is a way to engineer a solution where wages can be kept low and migrant labour minimised by more punitive measures against the unemployed. The cuts to UC can be seen in that context too.

 

[two sheds]

Yes, definitely. There will be a section of the Tory Party who will believe that there is a way to engineer a solution where wages can be kept low and migrant labour minimised by more punitive measures against the unemployed. The cuts to UC can be seen in that context too.

I did realize after posting it that "wouldn't be surprised" was a bit weak.