A Compassionate Society?

[Shevek]

These are some thoughts following reading University of Derby pyschologist Paul Gilbert's book 'The Compassionate Mind'...

We need to build a compassionate society, like the one that was attempted in Britain after WW2 (welfare state, NHS, universities).

Human beings have a higher and lower part of their brain. The lower part contains all the base actions and instincts such as survival, reproduction, aggression, territoriality. The higher mammalian part has a side which is there to nurture, to support, to encourage growth. We need to activate the higher part of the brain to build a society which is fair and supportive without unnecesary social suffering.

Through our actions we cause suffering (meat industry, sweatshops, warfare). We need to disengage from those activities that lead to the suffering of other humans and animals . The only way we can get concsious control over our actions is through practices such as meditation. We are beings that are struggling to get control over our behaviour. We can develop absurdly sophisticated technologies such as nuclear fission yet we are still ruled to a large degree by animal instincts and tribalism which leads to the development and deployment of nuclear weapons. We desperately need to find a way to curb our worst excesses as a species. An exploration of this topic is found in Jung's answer to Job.

We need to be wary of compassionate states though. Some of the countries with the most highly developed Buddhist practices are the most feudal and unequal, e.g. Nepal

 

[Shevek]

can this be moved to the theory/philosophy forum?

 

[bhamgeezer]

Sounds like a load of old bollocks to me

 

[Wolveryeti]

A bit wishy washy. "We're all nice guys really, we just have to connect with the real us"

An interesting idea, but I want to see the meat and bread of his findings that show promising results with case studies etc.

 

[Shevek]

Hi Wolveryeti. I'd definately recommend some of his works; 'compassion', 'the compassionate mind' and 'overcoming depression'. He is an insightful guy.

 

[fela fan]

The man sounds wise. When he mentions meditation though, it can be off-putting for western audiences. I would suggest the same results can be obtained by practising mindfulness and by raising one's own awareness of one's own life and everything around us. Awareness is the key to being able to follow a path of compassion and love rather than one of politics and violence.

However, without being sure how he goes on to advocating how to get that compassionate society, the usual trap must be avoided: trying to change others. Change yourself first. Become that compassionate person and by example help others make their own changes.

There can be no possible exception to compassion being somehow not positive.

Also, interestingly he says "...we are still ruled to a large degree by animal instincts and tribalism". Does he indicate who the 'we' refers to?

 

[fela fan]

We need to be wary of compassionate states though. Some of the countries with the most highly developed Buddhist practices are the most feudal and unequal, e.g. Nepal

Is that then not a contradiction?! A necessary condition for being compassionate is to treat, respect, everyone in the same way. And with the massive imbalance between the genders, i don't think nepal is really buddhist or compassionate.

Thailand is often thought of as a buddhist nation, and i guess politically this cannot be argued with. But in reality it conforms much more to animist ways, and that i would guess applies to nepal even more so. Sri lanka, another ostensibly buddhist nation, has plenty of suffering and murdering going on.

Compassion is an individual thing, and as your man says, it's available individually via the practice of meditation.

But that needs time, something that most working people find they're in very short supply of...

 

[Shevek]

He does talk about mindfulness and also talks about imagery. Imagining a compassionate helper stimulates the compassion circuit (sorry there is another phrase for this) in the brain and leads to more compassionate behaviour/thoughts.

I think he does say you can practice meditation without buying into all the religious beliefs. He never actually says whether or not he is a buddhist, just gently introduces you to some of the concepts (backed up by research evidence).

 

[fela fan]

He does talk about mindfulness and also talks about imagery. Imagining a compassionate helper stimulates the compassion circuit (sorry there is another phrase for this) in the brain and leads to more compassionate behaviour/thoughts.

I think he does say you can practice meditation without buying into all the religious beliefs. He never actually says whether or not he is a buddhist, just gently introduces you to some of the concepts (backed up by research evidence).

How does he define meditation? What does he say it is? I ask because you quote him as putting meditation and religious beliefs in the same basket so to speak. Meditation has no religious links, but he may well be mentioning that because of a general misunderstanding in western nations as to what exactly meditation is.

I wonder if he quotes erich fromm. Fromm goes on about the two modes, having and being. The having orientation reflects desires and the need to acquire (ie, typically our consumptive capitalist society), whereas the being orientation leads to love and compassion, not as some kind of enforced behaviour, but a natural way of being. Compassion that is difficult to do is not compassion. Compassion is something that comes naturally (once a person has it), but it's interesting how he links it with physical parts of the brain. I think it's more about a way of life that reflects fromm's being mode, and comes from a respect and consideration for all life forms. Harm other life, and one harms oneself, since we're all part of the big whole. It can be seen here that the capitalist system is inherently anti-compassionate.

 

[Shevek]

I'll have to go back and re-read him Fela Fan. He is careful to seperate religious traditions from scientific research but does draw links between them which I think are interesting. He treads a very interesting line, gently pushing the idea of meditation without being too religious.

 

[Dillinger4]

Being.

 

[fela fan]

I'll have to go back and re-read him Fela Fan. He is careful to seperate religious traditions from scientific research but does draw links between them which I think are interesting. He treads a very interesting line, gently pushing the idea of meditation without being too religious.

It's just not obvious at all he's writing for a british audience if he's treading carefully over 'religion'! But interestingly meditation has nothing to do with religion; with him actually speaking about it, it seems to confirm my suspicion that british people equate meditation with some kind of religious link. I know i certainly laboured under a false impression as to what meditation was.

Meditation is also an excellent antidote to the stresses and problems that modern day acquisitive society throws up. But i'll say again, people need time and space for practising it, and mindfulness. Which arguably is the same thing anyway.

 

[Shevek]

Well I am sceptical about religion but am about to start meditating at a local buddhist centre. I don't really want all the religious baggage that goes with it but am willing to open my mind to the benefits.

I have a copy of the Tao Te Ching that I read occasionally but I am not religious. I would say I am a materialist.

 

[xes]

Interested in living in a more compassionate way? Look up some videos on good old youtube about some of the Native American philosophy. Some really thought provoking stuff, with a sexy accent

 

[Shevek]

thanks xes. My copy of the Tao Te Ching is rendered by Ursula K Le Guin whose father was the anthropologist Alfred Kroeber, an authority on the North American Indians. So I think there are some links/influences at least in Le Guin's version.

 

[xes]

I was watching a series of videos last week. About NA philosophy and predictions stuff. It was so refreshing and enlightening. Basicly, to treat every living thing as family. The plants, the insects, everything. Watch them and learn, it's how they get their medicines and things, by watching the animals. This series went on to say about how before they became like they are now, no man lived until a natural death. Everyone was killed by someone else. Until 1 lone man came along and taught them how to live with nature. Since that day, a few hundred years ago, they have lived in peace. Then it went on to say about how they used to laugh at the white man in the gold rush days. But hoe the tables ahve turned and some native american people are getting sucked into the casino world. The guy on the video said it's not so funny now, they have their people runninground with the same wild look in their eyes.

 

[fela fan]

Well I am sceptical about religion but am about to start meditating at a local buddhist centre. I don't really want all the religious baggage that goes with it but am willing to open my mind to the benefits.

I have a copy of the Tao Te Ching that I read occasionally but I am not religious. I would say I am a materialist.

It is clear what 'religion' is, but the meaning of 'religious' is more ambiguous. What exactly does it mean? Somebody who follows one of the main organised religions? Or someone who practises such concepts as compassion and respect for all life?

What i've been saying is that meditation carries no 'religious baggage' except in the eyes of many britons, including myself at one point. So you need have no fear of being contaminated!

Proper meditation will lead you to a life without any 'ists'...

And it won't be about opening your mind up, rather letting it empty itself, and that is not easy for many westerners. Good luck with your efforts! Well worth doing.

 

[fela fan]

So shevek, looks like the answer to your thread title question is, not here in britain!

 

[Dillinger4]

Change the record, fela.

 

[fela fan]

Change the record, fela.

Don't have any dillinger, just cds these days.

I was being tongue-in-cheek, although you might have guessed that.

As it happens, when big disasters befall some part of the planet, it is often (maybe always in fact) the british who dig deepest into their pockets and reservoir of compassion. The tsunami is a recent example.

 

[SpookyFrank]

As it happens, when big disasters befall some part of the planet, it is often (maybe always in fact) the british who dig deepest into their pockets and reservoir of compassion. The tsunami is a recent example.

Even if that's true then it still doesn't mean we're compassionate, just that we are easily made to feel guilty. Most people, British or otherwise, don't give a flying fuck about any human suffering that doesn't make it onto the six o clock news. I'd say we are also far more likely to help the victims of random fate than the victims of systematic oppression, exploitation and violence carried out by our fellow humans.

 

[fela fan]

I'd say we are also far more likely to help the victims of random fate than the victims of systematic oppression, exploitation and violence carried out by our fellow humans.

Such oppression and exploitation and violence has been a hallmark of our country for hundreds of years!

But perhaps a violent-prone person has more ability to be compassionate than a more neutral kind of person who has no time or inclination to worry about the rest of the world.