5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

[kittyP]

i do not and never have driven

I wasn't saying you had.

I meant the Royal You, or something

 

[Pickman's model]

I genuinely think you couldn't give a flying fuck about cyclists, dead or injured, beyond the minor irritation they inflict on you in your everyday life.

the dead are worse as it takes ages for the police to complete their investigations and clear the road. the injured are fairly quickly removed to hospital and life returns to normal.



if you really think what you claim to think you're fucked in the head. nowhere have i said or suggested such a thing.

 

[Pickman's model]

I wasn't saying you had.

I meant the Royal You, or something

Pickman's model must be the leader of this board

 

[kittyP]

Ha ha, you have that saved

 

[littlebabyjesus]

however cycling courses can give you a good foundation on which to build. just because someone's 'experienced' doesn't necessarily mean they're doing it right, it might mean they've done it wrong a lot of times and been lucky.

Yes, I do not disagree.

 

[Lo Siento.]

the dead are worse as it takes ages for the police to complete their investigations and clear the road. the injured are fairly quickly removed to hospital and life returns to normal.



if you really think what you claim to think you're fucked in the head. nowhere have i said or suggested such a thing.

I'd say responding to the death of five cyclists in a week by talking about the same things you always talk about regarding cyclists, despite those things not featuring in any of the five accidents, shows a pretty gruesome determination to use these people's deaths to push your own agenda.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd say responding to the death of five cyclists in a week by talking about the same things you always talk about regarding cyclists, despite those things not featuring in any of the five accidents, shows a pretty gruesome determination to use these people's deaths to push your own agenda.

but you've said i don't give a flying fuck about cyclists. if i don't give a flying fuck about cyclists then i don't have an agenda to push, do i?

all of this exists only in your head. there's nothing on this thread to substantiate your claim, or you'd have produced it.

 

[Lo Siento.]

but you've said i don't give a flying fuck about cyclists. if i don't give a flying fuck about cyclists then i don't have an agenda to push, do i?

Correction for your insufferable pedantry. You care far less about whether cyclists are hurt and killed than you do about hectoring cyclists for whatever injustices you perceive them to have done to you as a group.

 

[Pickman's model]

Correction for your insufferable pedantry. You care far less about whether cyclists are hurt and killed than you do about hectoring cyclists for whatever injustices you perceive them to have done to you as a group.

what you call my insufferable pedantry is just me showing you up for what you are on this issue: all over the fucking shop. if i wanted to hector people for injustices i felt i'd suffered, don't you think i would in fact hector people for injustices i felt i'd suffered?

 

[Lo Siento.]

what you call my insufferable pedantry is just me showing you up for what you are on this issue: all over the fucking shop. if i wanted to hector people for injustices i felt i'd suffered, don't you think i would in fact hector people for injustices i felt i'd suffered?

You have hectored people for said injustices on all manner of cycling threads, and it was the exact same stuff you're posting here, just with the (offensive) pretence that it's about our safety. Your first post on this thread was about cyclists going the wrong way down 1-way streets. How many of the 5 accidents in the OP resulted from people doing that? 0. It was totally fucking irrelevant.

 

[Pickman's model]

You have hectored people for said injustices on all manner of cycling threads, and it was the exact same stuff you're posting here, just with the (offensive) pretence that it's about our safety. Your first post on this thread was about cyclists going the wrong way down 1-way streets. How many of the 5 accidents in the OP resulted from people doing that? 0. It was totally fucking irrelevant.

that's a lie. and you know it. why should i continue to engage with you when you're prepared to lie so flagrantly?

 

[Lo Siento.]

that's a lie. and you know it. why should i continue to engage with you when you're prepared to lie so flagrantly?

i've said it before and i suppose i'll say it again but the number of accidents could be lowered by, among other measures, a mite more cyclist training. for example, every day i see cyclists heading down a street clearly and repeatedly marked

i have seen a cyclist go under a bus on that street. there is a reason it is marked 'no cycles'. perhaps a quick read of the highway code might be a good starting point for cyclists.

No, it's not.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, it's not.

sorry, which part of that post says anything about a one-way street or people going the wrong way down it?

 

[Pickman's model]

Lo Siento. it's not a long post, which part of it says what you claim?

 

[Lo Siento.]

sorry, which part of that post says anything about a one-way street or people going the wrong way down it?

The bit about the no-entry sign!?! Maybe you meant a bus lane or a tunnel or something. Is it any more relevant to the cases in the OP?

 

[Pickman's model]

The bit about the no-entry sign!?! Maybe you meant a bus lane or a tunnel or something. Is it any more relevant to the cases in the OP?

this is a no entry sign

but you didn't talk about that. you said i mentioned a one way street and people going the wrong way down it. perhaps you could show me where i mentioned that.

or you could apologise and piss off.

 

[Lo Siento.]

this is a no entry sign

but you didn't talk about that. you said i mentioned a one way street and people going the wrong way down it. perhaps you could show me where i mentioned that.

or you could apologise and piss off.

Oh fuck off. You think you deserve an apology because of a slight mis-comprehension of one of your posts? Go on. I'm really really sorry that I mistook a no cyclists sign for a no entry sign.

In other news. Your little anecdote about cyclists going past a no-cycling sign is of no reference whatsoever to the incidents in the OP, and you only brought it up because you have a pathological hatred of cyclists, and were happy to use people's deaths as an excuse to hector them, as per fucking usual.

Happy now? All straightened out?

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh fuck off. You think you deserve an apology because of a slight mis-comprehension of one of your posts? Go on. I'm really really sorry that I mistook a no cyclists sign for a no entry sign.

In other news. Your little anecdote about cyclists going past a no-cycling sign is of no reference whatsoever to the incidents in the OP, and you only brought it up because you have a pathological hatred of cyclists, and were happy to use people's deaths as an excuse to hector them, as per fucking usual.

Happy now? All straightened out?

so we've gone from i don't give a fuck about them beyond the mild irritation they cause me to my apparently having a pathological hatred of cyclists. i haven't changed my view today, and none of your claims reflects my views on cyclists - the increasing hatred you think you discern over the past half hour exists purely in your imagination. the salience of my point is that the junction i have in mind is that where the architect was killed just the other day , it's long been a dangerous junction whether approached from the east along the (well signposted) bus-only bus lane or any other direction. btw if you're so easily confused by two very different signs (and there's still no explanation of whence you got the notion of people going the wrong way up a one-way street) perhaps you need to refresh your knowledge of the highway code.

 

[fredfelt]

Yep. How much of it is simply beyond the cyclist's control, whatever their abilities/considerate attitude? A fair bit, I would guess. The only time I've been knocked off my bike in London, it was entirely the driver's fault, and there is little I could have done.

The Guardian bike blog had a piece about these death's which gives a little insight to your question

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/14/fifth-london-bike-death-bus-superhighway

Selected quotes from the story

Boris Johnson has shrugged off calls for an urgent review of cyclingsafety in London after a man killed on Wednesday night became the fifth cyclist to die in the capital in nine days. The London mayor said that unless people obeyed the laws of the road, "there's no amount of traffic engineering that we invest in that is going to save people's lives".

...

The London assembly member Darren Johnson, of the Green party, accused the mayor of "dodging responsibility" for the recent deaths and trying to blame cyclists.

"Four out of the five deaths of cyclists in the last nine days have involved either his blue paint or his red buses," said Johnson, in a reference to the blue-painted cycle superhighways.

"The mayor's comments this morning which targeted cyclists breaking the law as the primary cause of death and serious injury is an attempt to blame the victims, rather than tackling the real problem of HGVs, buses and dangerous junctions."

Boris Johnson and Darren Johnson just about seem to sum up the different points of view of this thread.

 

[Lo Siento.]

so we've gone from i don't give a fuck about them beyond the mild irritation they cause me to my apparently having a pathological hatred of cyclists. i haven't changed my view today, and none of your claims reflects my views on cyclists - the increasing hatred you think you discern over the past half hour exists purely in your imagination. the salience of my point is that the junction i have in mind is that where the architect was killed just the other day , it's long been a dangerous junction whether approached from the east along the (well signposted) bus-only bus lane or any other direction. btw if you're so easily confused by two very different signs (and there's still no explanation of whence you got the notion of people going the wrong way up a one-way street) perhaps you need to refresh your knowledge of the highway code.

He wasn't going down the bus-only lane, hence it only seemed salient because you were looking for an opportunity to hector cyclists.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Both cyclists. I used to live a couple of doors away from Darren Johnson in SE London. He's a regular cyclist, as is Boris J.

Not so surprised by Boris J's reaction. Probably thinks it will never happen to him, it's a typically Tory response: blame the unemployed for not having a job, blame the cyclists for being knocked over...

 

[fredfelt]

Whilst irritating, all those "risk-taking behaviours" are almost a total non-entity as a factor in cycling fatalities. So even if you could persuade the minority of cyclists who do them regularly it would have virtually no impact whatsoever on the number of deaths.

Exactly. To me there seems to be a bit of a pattern...

When cars often crash on a particular stretch of road people die, people refer to it as a 'dangerous junction', and quite quickly large sums of cash get spent in a redesign to fix the problem.

Where a road is designed badly for cyclists and pedestrians there is conflict, it's rarely fatal, and people grumble about inconsiderate cyclists. There are calls to restrict access for cyclists and / or pedestrians and for extra policing.

Where cyclists end up getting killed it seems that rather than questioning the design of the road, the skills of the cyclist are called into question. Where they wearing a helmet? Was the road too busy for them to have been there in the first place? Were they lit up like a Christmas tree etc.

Of course I accept I'm making sweeping generalisations, but I think there's some truth here.

 

[Pickman's model]

He wasn't going down the bus-only lane, hence it only seemed salient because you were looking for an opportunity to hector cyclists.

tell you what, read the bit after the fucking comma.

 

[Lo Siento.]

tell you what, read the bit after the fucking comma.

You mean the bit after the comma which actually contradicts the point you made in your first post? The bit that points out that the junction is dangerous regardless of whether you approach it legally or not? Really? That bit?

 

[Pickman's model]

You mean the bit after the comma which actually contradicts the point you made in your first post? The bit that points out that the junction is dangerous regardless of whether you approach it legally or not? Really? That bit?

there is no legal way for a cyclist to approach it from the east. approached from the east it is accessed by a narrow lane down which a bus and a cycle cannot pass side by side. the dangers posed from other directions are different. the clause you refer to does not in fact contradict what i said, it supplements it. but what you post in #144 confirms what i thought, that you don't read my posts with half the care and attention you think you do. and even when you do read them you don't understand what they fucking say or you wouldn't make such a twat of yourself.

 

[Lo Siento.]

there is no legal way for a cyclist to approach it from the east. approached from the east it is accessed by a narrow lane down which a bus and a cycle cannot pass side by side. the dangers posed from other directions are different. the clause you refer to does not in fact contradict what i said, it supplements it. but what you post in #144 confirms what i thought, that you don't read my posts with half the care and attention you think you do. and even when you do read them you don't understand what they fucking say or you wouldn't make such a twat of yourself.

so we've gone from i don't give a fuck about them beyond the mild irritation they cause me to my apparently having a pathological hatred of cyclists. i haven't changed my view today, and none of your claims reflects my views on cyclists - the increasing hatred you think you discern over the past half hour exists purely in your imagination. the salience of my point is that the junction i have in mind is that where the architect was killed just the other day , it's long been a dangerous junction whether approached from the east along the (well signposted) bus-only bus lane or any other direction. btw if you're so easily confused by two very different signs (and there's still no explanation of whence you got the notion of people going the wrong way up a one-way street) perhaps you need to refresh your knowledge of the highway code.

tell you what, read the bit after the fucking comma

 

[equationgirl]

As someone who lives outside London, these 'superhighways' seem to be having the exact opposite effect that they were intended to have.

 

[Pickman's model]

tell you what, read the bit after the fucking comma

what's your point, caller?

 

[Crispy]

As someone who lives outside London, these 'superhighways' seem to be having the exact opposite effect that they were intended to have.

Wel, the number of people cycling has is rising steeply, whether that's due to the CSHs or not is hard to say. If that's a measure of success, then they're working well.

 

[Pickman's model]

As someone who lives outside London, these 'superhighways' seem to be having the exact opposite effect that they were intendede.

they're not super and they're not highways