"37 social units is 37 too many" says estate agent about Lambeth's shrinking affordable housing

[cesare]

that's probably the most interesting question of the whole thread actually. i'm starting to think that they have!

It's interesting because of course it isn't just estate agents that contribute to social cleansing.

 

[el-ahrairah]

It's interesting because of course it isn't just estate agents that contribute to social cleansing.

certainly the case. there are lots of people who do so, with varying degrees of complicity.

there are plenty who think that bailiffs, screws, and the OB should be let off because they're just doing their job and the system is to blame. personally i think blame should be spread as wide as it is possible to do without letting the bosses and politicians off.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Would you really be happier in a world with no police or prison officers? Goodness.

 

[soupdragon]

No, it seems to be a far more suspicious community with a greater dislike of outsiders and incomers.

Rightly suspicious – there's a lot at stake.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Would you really be happier in a world with no police or prison officers? Goodness.

much happier. i'd send all the recidivists to live at your house and you can patronise them into going straight.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

i'd send all the recidivists

You and whose owsla?

 

[cesare]

certainly the case. there are lots of people who do so, with varying degrees of complicity.

there are plenty who think that bailiffs, screws, and the OB should be let off because they're just doing their job and the system is to blame. personally i think blame should be spread as wide as it is possible to do without letting the bosses and politicians off.

How do you feel about attempting to establish the level of complicity and making reasonable attempts to ensure that direct action is proportionate to that level?

 

[el-ahrairah]

How do you feel about attempting to establish the level of complicity and making reasonable attempts to ensure that direct action is proportionate to that level?

well, we could do that i guess. it would probably be the right thing to do.

 

[salem]

He wasn't a poster on this site. He wasn't a poster on this site. He wasn't a poster on this site. He wasn't a poster on this site. He wasn't a poster on this site. He wasn't a poster on this site. He wasn't a poster on this site. He wasn't a poster on this site.

Yes, another site hosted on the same computer, owned by the same person and as far as I can tell there is no reason you'd act any differently here. I've demonstrated the links between the two sites (you're legal registrant of both urban75.net/brixtonbuzz.com, both hosted on the same IP address, the 'forum' tab on bb links to threads here, constant cross pollination between the two, the fact it says 'our sister site urban75.net' on bb and so on).

We all know it's your ball and so you decide the rules, but there is also a community grown here and maybe some transparency might help.

Given the fact that you've completely misrepresented everything I've said thus far and keep on persisting with misinformation even after you've been corrected, I think I'll give it a miss, ta.

I've answered all your questions to me in a reasonable manner. I've not misrepresented everything. ViolentPanda has in his usual aggressive style said I have misunderstood the situation. It's quite an important point now as some people seem to think you didn't mail the company. Can you please stop avoiding the question. It's really simple and I've asked 4 times for clarification.

only dozens??
didn't anyone tell you there are millions and millions of sites out there?
and how come part of your post is missing if you're so good at this internet game?

Part of my post was missing because I was posting from my phone (as editor can confirm from my IP). But my point is that I work with this stuff day in and day out. It's just an utter fundamentally basic principle that if you have access to user data you have to act responsibly with it. Using that data to score points is not on.

Which line is that?

About treating user data appropriately.

because calling people on their opinions is only allowed if you're a tory prick calling editor on his. everyone else has absolute freedom of speech. and actually, editor is worse than hitler for not having made estateagents75.com for them post on, which clearly shows his bias.

arguing the toss about the rights of estate agents to post up a different opinion ffs.

Its the posters here whining about Ed and defending estate agents that are the joke.

I really want to make this clear. I am not here to defend estate agents or property developers. I've posted on the o2 arena affordable houses scandal thread just the other day, multiple times in the thread on the Heygate scandal and in this thread about my own shitty predicament. I agree the guy was probably a shiny suit, gel haired, mini driving sleezebag with few redeeming features. I'm not pissed off for him, I'm pissed off at the precedent set and the ramifications for everybody.

You people thinking it's OK because it's estate agents are like saying anyone against RIPA is pro-terrorists. Like RIPA it's not about whether it's used against 'legitimate' targets but once you set the precedent someone has to decide who is a legitimate target. It's a can of worms that's best left shut and certainly not worth opening for such petty point scoring.

OK we don't like estate agents, but we also know that editor is anti-smoking. What if I post that I'm in a great pub where the landlord doesn't mind people having a cheeky cig inside after hours. The site management could potentially identify the chain if I was posting over it's wifi. Would it be fair if they contacted the brewery to ask if it was their official policy to allow smoking inside? I'd prefer that we didn't even ask the question rather then have to look at whether it was a legitimate target.

It's unusual, that's all. There's a general convention that media owners - even bloggers - don't challenge the anonymity of their anonymous posters in public, even if they are quick to pass on IP details to police or lawyers on request. So that's why there's some surprise. I was surprised, even though I thought it was a particularly wanky comment.

Bingo

I can't believe that salem , passivejoe , Maurice Picarda , superfly101 and others on this thread still don't understand that when you post on a public website / forum / messageboard etc there is no reasonable expectation of 'privacy'.

You are voluntarily sending your IP address, not only to the website in question (and all the people who have access to that), but also to the host of that website, to your ISP, to various CSPs, to various DNS servers, to literally hundreds and probably thousands of people and organisations around the world.

Those who do not understand this are naive or stupid.

Many forums and messageboards automatically publish the IP address of posters when they post messages, precisely because this is openly available information (and contributes to transparency.) (In fact, the fact that u75 and Brixton Buzz do not routinely publish IP addresses could be considered an extra layer of protection/privacy afforded the users of those sites - but nevertheless, the information has been voluntarily given and should be considered public.)

If you want 'privacy' you need to use an IP masker or similar tool. Calling yourself "bigboy69" and entering your email address as "a@b.com" will not protect your anonymity.

Many people still don't understand this.

This poster "TK" has been caught bang to rights posting shit from a company account. Not only have they voluntarily sent their IP address to Brixton Buzz and hundreds of others, they are also a massive cunt.

Anyone who doesn't understand this should educate themselves, for example by fucking googling it or taking the free, online Open University course Introduction to Cyber Security or anything else mildly educational.

I understand how this stuff works. It's what I do for a living. It's why I am particularly interested here.

Some sites publish IP addresses (it's rare now). BrixtonBuzz/Urban75 don't. To selectively make use of those depending on whether the person agrees with you or not is wrong.

When I signed up here I provided an email address. I trusted the site so I use a personal email address and one that could identify me personally. I've also donated in the past to the server fund so site management have even more of my personal details. I don't expect my IP address to be used against me to score points just as I don't expect my email address or bank details to be used against me. There are private messages that could cause me problems and I wouldn't expect those to be used against me. They're details I know the site managers can access but I trust them to do so responsibly.

Is that what's happened? It's unclear. VP is insisting furiously that only the employee was contacted, not the employer, and he hasn't been corrected on this. You'd have thought that if the editor was being defended on the grounds of a misapprehension, he'd be quick to set the record straight.

Indeed. Either he's being very charitable to VP or he's leading us all on a wild goose chase, why he'd do that I have no idea.

Not sure about that per se - it's not logically that far from the nonsense of 'never grass'.

If you are going to do it, though, it'd probably help if it was part of a coherent plan or idea that you could stand by, rather than a random, personal reaction that you then shrink from.

Agreed!

 

[ddraig]

for fucks sake get a fucking life

this is all just an attack, simple
keep wasting your time and spittle on it for all I care but you're not playing to a very big gallery

 

[ddraig]

When I signed up here I provided an email address. I trusted the site so I use a personal email address and one that could identify me personally. I've also donated in the past to the server fund so site management have even more of my personal details. I don't expect my IP address to be used against me to score points just as I don't expect my email address or bank details to be used against me. There are private messages that could cause me problems and I wouldn't expect those to be used against me. They're details I know the site managers can access but I trust them to do so responsibly.

this is SO out of order, so many pathetic extrapolations that only exist in your mind

 

[editor]

To sum up: some obnoxious and offensive twat from an upmarket estate agents decides to rub the shit in the faces of poor people by posting up a shocking comment that he thinks that a project with already seriously reduced social housing should have none at all.

He posts this on a left leaning site with a history of supporting social housing. I was surprised to find this coming from an established estate agents so asked them if that was their official policy. That was my decision. You may not agree with it, but as it happened elsewhere it has nothing to do with you as an urban75 poster.

None of this happened on urban75, although I was so furious about it, I did make a general comment here which made a point of identifying no one and containing no IP addresses. No individual has been named. No company has been named.

So this has no bearing whatsoever on what happens on urban75. It has no bearing on our privacy policies. None at all.

Brixton Buzz, although strongly linked to urban75, is an entirely different entity. None of the moderators here are involved with Brixton Buzz, and the site is co-owned with someone who is not involved with urban75.

And on a side note, I can't say how disappointing it is to see the same familiar faces appearing here trying to score as many personal points as possible, presumably because other posters dared defend my actions (which I still stand by).

 

[Treacle Toes]

Would you really be happier in a world with no police or prison officers? Goodness.

I'd be happier in a world where they are held personally and professionally responsible for any abuse of their position, including when they are found to have views that undermine their ability to do their job well.

 

[editor]

When I signed up here I provided an email address. I trusted the site so I use a personal email address and one that could identify me personally. I've also donated in the past to the server fund so site management have even more of my personal details. I don't expect my IP address to be used against me to score points just as I don't expect my email address or bank details to be used against me. There are private messages that could cause me problems and I wouldn't expect those to be used against me. They're details I know the site managers can access but I trust them to do so responsibly.

Seeing as you clearly have no intention of believing our oft-explained and clear cut privacy policy on THIS SITE and are refusing to accept over a decade of us steadfastly respecting that privacy (even when that involves us going considerably out of our way to remove sensitive information by request) I'm afraid I've run out of options.

 

[salem]

And for the 5th time are you going to clear up whether you emailed the company or individual. ViolentPanda made several aggressive and patronising remarks saying that we're wrong and you are repeatedly avoiding the question either for his benefit or to create confusion.

Simple question, did you email the company or individual?

Seeing as you clearly have no intention of believing our oft-explained and clear cut privacy policy on THIS SITE and are refusing to accept over a decade of us steadfastly respecting that privacy (even when that involves us going considerably out of our way to remove sensitive information by request) I'm afraid I've run out of options.

I wrote that in response to Brixton Hatter who was suggesting that because IP addresses are shared with a site publicly they can be used against a person. I was just demonstrating that we also share other information and just as I wouldn't expect my email address or bank details to be used I also don't expect my IP address to be used. I'm sorry if you misunderstood that.

 

[maomao]

Simple question, did you email the company or individual?

Quite clearly answered in #222, he emailed the company.

 

[ddraig]

And for the 5th time are you going to clear up whether you emailed the company or individual. ViolentPanda made several aggressive and patronising remarks and you seem to be either avoiding the question either for his benefit or to create confusion.

Simple question, did you email the company or individual?

I wrote that in response to Brixton Hatter who was suggesting that because IP addresses are shared with a site publicly they can be used against a person. I was just demonstrating that we also share other information and just as I wouldn't expect my email address or bank details to be used I also don't expect my IP address to be used. I'm sorry if you misunderstood that.

you backtracking weasel, it was quite clear what meaning you intended

 

[passivejoe]

certainly the case. there are lots of people who do so, with varying degrees of complicity.

there are plenty who think that bailiffs, screws, and the OB should be let off because they're just doing their job and the system is to blame. personally i think blame should be spread as wide as it is possible to do without letting the bosses and politicians off.

Would the property market be very different if estate agents didn't exist? If people just set their own prices for their homes when they sell? I don't think so. If you own your home and you suspect that someone would pay £50k more for your home than a price that was paid for a similar property on your street recently, you'd give it a shot... justifying to yourself how fucking hard you have to graft to make £50k after tax and if some city wanker wants to pay over the odds for your flat then so be it.

 

[salem]

you backtracking weasel, it was quite clear what meaning you intended

Please go to post #219 and see where I wrote it. It was written directly in response to the post from Brixton Hatter (and in the middle of a load of responses so it's clear what is related to what). No backtracking at all - it's there clear to see.

 

[passivejoe]

To sum up: some obnoxious and offensive twat from an upmarket estate agents to decides to rub the shit in the faces of poor people by posting up a shocking comment that he thinks that a project with already seriously reduced social housing should have none at all.

He posts this on a left leaning site with a history of supporting social housing. I was surprised to find this coming from an established estate agents so asked them if that was their official policy. That was my decision. You may not agree with it, but as it happened elsewhere it has nothing to do with you as an urban75 poster.

None of this happened on urban75, although I was so furious about it, I did make a general comment here which made a point of identifying no one and containing no IP addresses. No individual has been named. No company has been named.

So this has no bearing whatsoever on what happens on urban75. It has no bearing on our privacy policies. None at all.

Brixton Buzz, although strongly linked to urban75, is an entirely different entity. None of the moderators here are involved with Brixton Buzz, and the site is co-owned with someone who is not involved with urban75.

And on a side note, I can't say how disappointing it is to see the same familiar faces appearing here trying to score as many personal points as possible, presumably because other posters dared defend my actions (which I still stand by).

Thanks for clearing it up.
But is disagree with your final sentence. It began as disagreement with your action, and given that you posted what you'd done here on U75 you can't be surprised that those of us who disagreed with your action chose to follow it up on these boards. Surely discussion was your intention, or why else post it? But in questioning your action, the debate is dragged down by this obsession with class war (my own personal comment about the Ed included, for which I apologised). This class war obsession takes over everything on the board, relevant to the discussion or not.

 

[salem]

Quite clearly answered in #222, he emailed the company.

Ah thanks.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Would the property market be very different if estate agents didn't exist? If people just set their own prices for their homes when they sell? I don't think so. If you own your home and you suspect that someone would pay £50k more for your home than a price that was paid for a similar property on your street recently, you'd give it a shot... justifying to yourself how fucking hard you have to graft to make £50k after tax and if some city wanker wants to pay over the odds for your flat then so be it.

I suspect we will find this out in the next decade as some kind of peer-to-peer house selling stuff becomes popular.

In the meantime it seems pretty clear that estate agents have a vested interest in inflating property prices, both to get the best price for their clients (a desire/variable which would continue without them) and to perpetuate themselves, pay their wages, pay for those wanky offices and minis etc (a factor which wouldn't necessarily continue without them).

They actively do this by targeting "up and coming" areas. And generally being cunts.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Are you representing the company's views in this post.

I think the casual dismissal of posters concerns, by some other posters, regarding privacy on Brixton Blog and by extension urban75, is a bit silly. I think they are legit concerns, even if other posters don't share them. The best argument put forward so far is "fuck this twats privacy".

The view of "large multinational pharmaceutical conglomerate #4" who's WiFi I'm using to post this whilst on my break? You'd have to ask them. I won't be trolling any threads about evidence in medicine any time soon, though. ;-) :-D

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, another site hosted on the same computer, owned by the same person and as far as I can tell there is no reason you'd act any differently here. I've demonstrated the links between the two sites (you're legal registrant of both urban75.net/brixtonbuzz.com, both hosted on the same IP address, the 'forum' tab on bb ads here, constant cross pollination between the two, the fact it says 'our sister site urban75.net' onlinks to thre bb and so on).

"Hosted on the same computer"?
Are you really that naive? They're hosted by the same ISP on their server farm, not "on the same computer".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Go on answer the fucking question.

Oh look! The same person who tags me on a thread to point out that I'm aggressive, indulges in...aggression.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I'd be happier in a world where they are held personally and professionally responsible for any abuse of their position, including when they are found to have views that undermine their ability to do their job well.

Well, yes. So would anyone.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Would the property market be very different if estate agents didn't exist? If people just set their own prices for their homes when they sell? I don't think so. If you own your home and you suspect that someone would pay £50k more for your home than a price that was paid for a similar property on your street recently, you'd give it a shot... justifying to yourself how fucking hard you have to graft to make £50k after tax and if some city wanker wants to pay over the odds for your flat then so be it.

i'm just quoting this so that you can't delete it and i can come back to it whenever i want a laugh.

this is definitely going in your file

 

[ViolentPanda]

Aye that some pricks have wanted on about this rather than the real issue of scum like this wanting to destroy social housing says everything you need to know about them. Fucking wastes of space destroying what could have been a good thread.

As I said, though, at least they're marking their own cards for us, so it won't just be Maurice Picarda in a gibbet CTR.

 

[ddraig]

I think the casual dismissal of posters concerns, by some other posters, regarding privacy on Brixton Blog and by extension urban75, is a bit silly. I think they are legit concerns, even if other posters don't share them. The best argument put forward so far is "fuck this twats privacy".

The view of "large multinational pharmaceutical conglomerate #4" who's WiFi I'm using to post this whilst on my break? You'd have to ask them. I won't be trolling any threads about evidence in medicine any time soon, though. ;-) :-D

Belushi
don't want to have a go but want to ask you if you have concerns about privacy here and whether there has been anything to back this up at all to your knowledge?
(as you liked the quoted post)
cheers

 

[editor]

I think the casual dismissal of posters concerns, by some other posters, regarding privacy on Brixton Blog and by extension urban75, is a bit silly. I think they are legit concerns, even if other posters don't share them. The best argument put forward so far is "fuck this twats privacy".

Brixton Blog has even less to do with the matter of an urban75 poster's privacy than Brixton Buzz.

Oh and there is still not a shred of evidence to support the assumption that the person who made the offensive comment was actually identified.