20 hour room temperature Lasagne - Eat or bin?

[strung out]

Thing is, people used to do this when they didn't have fridges so maybe people like your nan just continue to do what they grew up with. We now have fridges, readily and reasonably cheaply available* so I don't see why some people seem so resistant to...moving with the times and putting stuff in the bloody thing....

*Quick look on the Argos website tells me you can get one for less than £100.

Question was about what to do when accidentally leaving something out though. Hardly anyone is actually refusing to use fridges completely.

 

[Sue]

Question was about what to do when accidentally leaving something out though. Hardly anyone is actually refusing to use fridges completely.

Accidentally, sure. Not understanding people leaving stuff out on the cooker or whatever though when they could easily put it in the fridge...

 

[gentlegreen]

Why would it have to be a chest fridge?

For maximum efficiency.

 

[gentlegreen]

I’d eat it ( nothing like cold next day lasagna- food of the gods)

If you are worried put thin amounts in the microwave and nuke them for three or four minutes till the sauce bubbles and then leave it to cool a bit.

But that wouldn't deal with toxins produced by bacteria / fungi...

 

[maomao]

For maximum efficiency.

That's cause everything's packed together in a big pile. Unless you're very organised you'd probably lose the advantage by taking everything out and putting it back in again looking for the stew at the bottom. Fridges are for fresh foods. Not for leaving things untouched for three months. You might (for example) want to take a slice of cheese every day and put the packet back.

Fridges need to be laid out so you can have the door open for as short a time as possible while taking your food in and out. Fresh food also requires some airflow which chest freezer don't do. I don't see how the chest layout could offer any advantages for a fridge. Chest models also take up more space vertically because you need to access from above. Fridge doors can open onto normal floorspace.

 

[tim]

Part of it is that modern farming methods increase the likelihood of food poisoning, maybe not so much with rice but definitely meat. The Japanese eat chicken sashimi but they don't use factory farmed chicken.

And anecdotally when I worked in China stomach upsets (d & v) were the most common reason for work absence.

I used to live in Bari, Italy where they eat a lot of raw fish, octopus and shellfish , which is both healthy and tasty until you go yellow. However, it is usually Hepatitis A from which nearly everybody makes a full recovery. And, they haven't had a Cholera outbreak in Bari since 1994, which was the year after I left.

If lunch is going to kill me I'd rather it looked like this

or this

or best of all, this

Than something ladled out of gentlegreen crusty stockpot.

 

[Brainaddict]

I would eat it.

I honestly can't think of anyone I've known who has got sick from food cooked at home, with the exception of seafood which has well-known risks. All the houses I've lived in people have kept food out in a pan on the hob overnight, and have kept cooked food, including rice, in the fridge for days and days before eating. Do other people here have radically different experiences of the dangers of cooked food - like can you reel off a list of friends or relatives who got sick from it? - or were your perceptions of the dangers taught to you, if so by who?

 

[maomao]

I used to live in Bari, Italy where they eat a lot of raw fish, octopus and shellfish , which is both healthy and tasty until you go yellow. However, it is usually Hepatitis A from which nearly everybody makes a full recovery. And, they haven't had a Cholera outbreak in Bari since 1994, which was the year after I left.

If lunch is going to kill me I'd rather it looked like this

or this

or best of all, this

Than something ladled out of gentlegreen crusty stockpot.

Sea urchin is the vilest thing I've ever eaten in my life. Given the same choice I'd happily starve.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Than something ladled out of gentlegreen crusty stockpot.

EUPHEMISM ALERT

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Accidentally, sure. Not understanding people leaving stuff out on the cooker or whatever though when they could easily put it in the fridge...

I've done it. You take something out of the oven and it's too hot to put straight in the fridge so you have to leave it to cool down a bit and then you just forget about it.
I learnt the hard way not to put a hot container straight in the fridge. Glass shelf shattered. Sounded like a gun going off.

 

[gentlegreen]

Back to the real world ...
Perhaps I should buy a fridge with an ice box and start eating Ben and Gerry's vegan ice cream for political reasons ..

The thing I waste most of is aubergine caviar which starts fermenting if you don't finish it in a few days - I could doubtless help things by decanting or using a separate spoon to get it out of the jar...



.. ditto lightly pickled Polish vegetable "salad" ...

They don't go toxic, but alcoholic and weird-tasting ...

 

[Mrs Miggins]

On this whole topic though....I don't dispute the science on this. I know there could be a dangerous growth of bacteria on this lasagne. I don't think I'd be in a hurry to feed it to a guest and I certainly would not be selling it to the general public.

I'd scoff it myself though without a doubt.

 

[JimW]

We don't put leftover dishes in the fridge because it's already full, basically. You could scrape them off the plate and squeeze a few bowls in there but tend to just whizz it round the wok again and serve it on the same plate it's been festering on.

 

[Sue]

I've done it. You take something out of the oven and it's too hot to put straight in the fridge so you have to leave it to cool down a bit and then you just forget about it.
I learnt the hard way not to put a hot container straight in the fridge. Glass shelf shattered. Sounded like a gun going off.

Yeah, sure, we've all done this of course. But some people seem to make a conscious choice to do it which I find a bit weird.

TBH, I wouldn't typically see it as being too much of a problem leaving something out overnight. But in 30 degree plus temperatures? That just feels not very sensible.

(I used to have a flatmate who'd make chicken soup. She'd leave it on the cooker for a week, heating it up every day and adding a bit more water or whatever from time to time. I don't know a great deal about chicken as I've been veggie since my early teens, but this seemed foolhardy to me. She kept assuring me it was all fine until the day she came down with really serious food poisoning. Even then she claimed it couldn't possibly have been the bloody chicken soup. )

 

[Sasaferrato]

Has keybored posted today?

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Yeah, sure, we've all done this of course. But some people seem to make a conscious choice to do it which I find a bit weird.

TBH, I wouldn't typically see it as being too much of a problem leaving something out overnight. But in 30 degree plus temperatures? That just feels not very sensible.

(I used to have a flatmate who'd make chicken soup. She'd leave it on the cooker for a week, heating it up every day and adding a bit more water or whatever from time to time. I don't know a great deal about chicken as I've been veggie since my early teens, but this seemed foolhardy to me. She kept assuring me it was all fine until the day she came down with really serious food poisoning. Even then she claimed it couldn't possibly have been the bloody chicken soup. )

Yeah I wouldn't mess about with food like that. I do tend to cook a big pot of something and eat it over 3-4 days but I do let it cool a bit, put it in the fridge and then microwave individual portions rather than heating up the whole lot.

 

[MrCurry]

I would eat it.

I honestly can't think of anyone I've known who has got sick from food cooked at home, with the exception of seafood which has well-known risks. All the houses I've lived in people have kept food out in a pan on the hob overnight, and have kept cooked food, including rice, in the fridge for days and days before eating. Do other people here have radically different experiences of the dangers of cooked food - like can you reel off a list of friends or relatives who got sick from it? - or were your perceptions of the dangers taught to you, if so by who?

The thing is, the ones who’ve convinced themselves they’ll die if they eat anything which was at room temperature for more than 30 minutes will never do so, hence they will continue forever to be inhibited and will throw away perfectly good food, so will never learn. The fact they try to lecture the more savvy posters on this thread who do have experience of safely letting cooked food remain at room temps fatally undermines their arguments.

This ignorance is probably encouraged by daytime tv shows and newspaper scare stories. The increased profits the supermarkets and food industry make from people fearfully binning unspoiled food is doubtless entirely unconnected to the misinformation spread to the public.

 

[salem]

At least I prepare mine from scratch once a week - and it takes ages with an enormous pot on a 1.5kw hob... reheating 30-45 minutes ..
The difference with my "pottage" is that it gets to cool down each day

Surely having to reheat a huge pot every day for 30-45 mins is less efficient and cancels out the money/environmental savings vs divving it up and reheating the individual (refrigerated) portions for a shorter amount of time?

 

[Mrs Miggins]

The thing is, the ones who’ve convinced themselves they’ll die if they eat anything which was at room temperature for more than 30 minutes will never do so, hence they will continue forever to be inhibited and will throw away perfectly good food, so will never learn. The fact they try to lecture the more savvy posters on this thread who do have experience of safely letting cooked food remain at room temps fatally undermines their arguments.

This ignorance is probably encouraged by daytime tv shows and newspaper scare stories. The increased profits the supermarkets and food industry make from people fearfully binning unspoiled food is doubtless entirely unconnected to the misinformation spread to the public.

A good friend of mine won't eat anything from "yesterday" or more than 5 minutes past its sell by date and hence chucks out a fuckton of perfectly good food.

 

[Pickman's model]

you never have this problem with kippers as they're too delicious to leave lying about

 

[Thora]

I would eat it.

I honestly can't think of anyone I've known who has got sick from food cooked at home, with the exception of seafood which has well-known risks. All the houses I've lived in people have kept food out in a pan on the hob overnight, and have kept cooked food, including rice, in the fridge for days and days before eating. Do other people here have radically different experiences of the dangers of cooked food - like can you reel off a list of friends or relatives who got sick from it? - or were your perceptions of the dangers taught to you, if so by who?

I made myself really ill once from eating a reheated fish pie ready meal that had been left out in a warm summer kitchen for a few hours. I knew as I was eating it that I hadn't reheated it properly

 

[MrCurry]

A good friend of mine won't eat anything from "yesterday" or more than 5 minutes past its sell by date and hence chucks out a fuckton of perfectly good food.

I knew someone who refused to plant the little pack of free chilli seeds Wagamama used to give away, on the basis “they might not be food-grade chillis”!

Some people are just scared to touch anything which doesn’t come from a supermarket wrapped in plastic with a reassuring date stamped on the side.

 

[maomao]

A good friend of mine won't eat anything from "yesterday" or more than 5 minutes past its sell by date and hence chucks out a fuckton of perfectly good food.

I had a colleague who would throw out fruit that was one day past it's best before and insist on putting it in the bin even if someone (usually me) offered to eat it.

 

[platinumsage]

Check out the amount of waste that has been caused by overly-cautious use-by dates for years.


'Use by' dates on meat will be extended to give supermarket shoppers 11 extra days to eat beef as food bosses get set to extend expiry dates

The use-by dates on meat sold in supermarkets are to be extended. Bosses at the Food Standards Agency reviewing the shelf life of beef, lamb and pork are set to give the go-ahead for longer expiry dates before Christmas. Chilled beef, including cuts sold in trays with plastic wrappings, are currently given ten-day use-by labels. But in future, this timeframe is expected to be raised to 21 days in the fridge, with pork and lamb having 15-day and 14-day deadlines respectively.

The move is part of a new drive to reduce 380,000 tons of meat waste a year in the UK, which is valued at £3 billion and is responsible for four million tons a year of greenhouse gas emissions. Around 243,000 tons of this meat is discarded by households.

David Lindars, co-chairman of a joint FSA and meat industry committee overseeing the issue, said he expected approval before the end of the year. Mr Lindars, technical operations director of the British Meat Processors Association, said: 'We are optimistic shelf-life will be extended. At the end of the day, it is a decision for manufacturers and retailers to set the shelf life of meat products. But longer use-by dates will be a significant factor in reducing meat waste.'

The urgency for an extended shelf-life is flagged up in a new report from the Waste and Resources Action Programme, which has the backing of farmers, processors, retailers and the catering industry. The 26-page Meat In A Net Zero World study also calls on consumers to help cut food waste and sets a target for a reduction of 100,000 tons in uneaten meat by 2030. According to WRAP, households throw out an average of 146,000 tons of pork per year alone –including 34,000 tons of sausages, 22,000 tons of bacon and 21,000 tons of sliced ham. Research shows that around 20 per cent of these products are in unopened or almost full packs.

The FSA spokesman said: 'We are currently undertaking a review of evidence regarding the shelf-life of vacuum and modified atmosphere packed chilled fresh beef, lamb and pork' with completion expected later this year.'

yes I know it's the Mail but no one else seems to have covered it.

New 'use by' dates on meat sold in supermarkets to be extended

Chilled beef is currently given ten-day use-by labels. But in future, this timeframe is expected to be raised to 21 days in the fridge, with pork and lamb having 15-day and 14-day deadlines respectively.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[gentlegreen]

Surely having to reheat a huge pot every day for 30-45 mins is less efficient and cancels out the money/environmental savings vs divving it up and reheating the individual (refrigerated) portions for a shorter amount of time?

Yes, I suppose it balances out.
I'm not saying my method is ideal, but it works.
I used to pretty well cook everything from scratch each time in the microwave - but they kept breaking on me ...
the other issue is only wanting to shop once a week and it's a race between me and the fruit flies so i like to get everything cooked up ASAP.

 

[Sasaferrato]

He has half a point though. We used to have a pan of curry and a pan of rice on the stovetop all day. People helped themselves to some of each and heated it in the microwave throughout the day. Then they went in the fridge overnight and we’d help ourselves from there until it ran out 2 or 3 days later so the rice was always reheated. As far as I know nobody got vaguely ill, let alone died, and every other Asian family that I know of does exactly the same.

IIRC pogofish damn nearly died from dodgy rice. He was in hospital for weeks.

 

[Nine Bob Note]

20 hours, pffffttt! I'll bet in Sicily it wouldn't be considered cooked yet.

you sound like Alan Sugar who doesn't believe in Corona cos no-one he knows has it

I've never met anyone who owned an Amstrad E-m@iler (or a CPC for that matter) but apparently they existed.

 

[Reno]

The thing is, the ones who’ve convinced themselves they’ll die if they eat anything which was at room temperature for more than 30 minutes will never do so, hence they will continue forever to be inhibited and will throw away perfectly good food, so will never learn. The fact they try to lecture the more savvy posters on this thread who do have experience of safely letting cooked food remain at room temps fatally undermines their arguments.

This ignorance is probably encouraged by daytime tv shows and newspaper scare stories. The increased profits the supermarkets and food industry make from people fearfully binning unspoiled food is doubtless entirely unconnected to the misinformation spread to the public.

Everybody who isn't up for risking food poisoning here has said, they simply put perishable food in the fridge or the freezer instead of letting it rot, so this is a strawman argument. I'm not throwing out any more food than you do. Nobody here has said anything about 30 minutes, one person who works in a supermarkets has mentioned that Tesco has a 20 minute policy.

I sense an increasingly desperate defensiveness in regard to standard scientific food hygiene advice (not daytime tv shows or newspaper scare stories) which is easily researched in a few minutes.

Anyways, you put in your gob whatever you like and good luck with that !

 

[Spymaster]

IIRC pogofish damn nearly died from dodgy rice. He was in hospital for weeks.

Serves him right

 

[Sasaferrato]

Check out the amount of waste that has been caused by overly-cautious use-by dates for years.


'Use by' dates on meat will be extended to give supermarket shoppers 11 extra days to eat beef as food bosses get set to extend expiry dates

The use-by dates on meat sold in supermarkets are to be extended. Bosses at the Food Standards Agency reviewing the shelf life of beef, lamb and pork are set to give the go-ahead for longer expiry dates before Christmas. Chilled beef, including cuts sold in trays with plastic wrappings, are currently given ten-day use-by labels. But in future, this timeframe is expected to be raised to 21 days in the fridge, with pork and lamb having 15-day and 14-day deadlines respectively.

The move is part of a new drive to reduce 380,000 tons of meat waste a year in the UK, which is valued at £3 billion and is responsible for four million tons a year of greenhouse gas emissions. Around 243,000 tons of this meat is discarded by households.

David Lindars, co-chairman of a joint FSA and meat industry committee overseeing the issue, said he expected approval before the end of the year. Mr Lindars, technical operations director of the British Meat Processors Association, said: 'We are optimistic shelf-life will be extended. At the end of the day, it is a decision for manufacturers and retailers to set the shelf life of meat products. But longer use-by dates will be a significant factor in reducing meat waste.'

The urgency for an extended shelf-life is flagged up in a new report from the Waste and Resources Action Programme, which has the backing of farmers, processors, retailers and the catering industry. The 26-page Meat In A Net Zero World study also calls on consumers to help cut food waste and sets a target for a reduction of 100,000 tons in uneaten meat by 2030. According to WRAP, households throw out an average of 146,000 tons of pork per year alone –including 34,000 tons of sausages, 22,000 tons of bacon and 21,000 tons of sliced ham. Research shows that around 20 per cent of these products are in unopened or almost full packs.

The FSA spokesman said: 'We are currently undertaking a review of evidence regarding the shelf-life of vacuum and modified atmosphere packed chilled fresh beef, lamb and pork' with completion expected later this year.'

yes I know it's the Mail but no one else seems to have covered it.

New 'use by' dates on meat sold in supermarkets to be extended

Chilled beef is currently given ten-day use-by labels. But in future, this timeframe is expected to be raised to 21 days in the fridge, with pork and lamb having 15-day and 14-day deadlines respectively.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Supermarket meat is the same temperature as cold store meat IIRC, extending by a fortnight wouldn't be a problem. Mind you, I eat my steak cooked right through. No pink.