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“Perfect“ films

Is the mythology of the sun god Frith and El-ahrairah flawed? Well of course it is if you look at it too closely.

At one point in desperation Hazel tries to bargain with Lord Frith "my life for theirs", but Firth replies,

"There is not a day or night but a doe offers her life for her kittens, or some honest captain of Owsla his life for his Chief Rabbit's. Sometimes it is taken, sometimes it is not. But there is no bargain, for here, what is, is what must be."

That's stone cold stoicism where God doesn't even help those who help themselves. It's a naturalistic religion which could certainly be interpreted as social Darwinism with themes of overpopulation and population control. It's quite troubling if you really think about it or try to apply it outside of its context. But the real question is why did I think about it in the first place? Richard Adams developed a fictional rabbit religion that fairly and squarely solves the problem of evil. Fascinating thought, I think.

If something is perfect it is closed, final and finished. If something is thought provoking or ambiguous it is inherently open. When the Sandleford rabbits find themselves trapped between the hombre and the river, Bigwig shouts, "every rabbit for himself" but Hazel refuses. Neither is wrong from Lord Frith's point of view. Social solidarity is something that is developed separately to the religion/mythology of Lord Frith and El-ahrairah.

It is the conceptual flaws themselves that open up your thoughts in this story. But also your emotions. I find this part where Hazel is begging Lord Frith for help to be devastating in ways I find hard to express or even justify. For me there is something about it which is absolutely heartbreaking. But even here it is not about the perfect heartbreaking story, but about how it resonates with me. It very probably doesn't resonate with you in quite the same way. If I had first seen this at a different more cynical time in my life it wouldn't resonate with me in the same way.

The whole thing is sort of shakey if you want to pick it apart and test its perfectness. It is a story about anthropomorphised rabbits after all, it cannot possibly have a sense of completeness to it and therefore there can be no sense of perfection to it. And that's where the wonder of it resides. More nourishing than mere perfection.
 
Perfect = Favourite?

Blade Runner is one of my favourite films. It it beautifully filmed, cast, scored and left questions open about a possible future of humanity. The Alien/Aliens films much the same for me.

There are timeless comedies like Airplane, Young Frankenstein, Groundhog Day, Blues Brothers (also a musical) that I will never tire of.

Jaws was far from 'perfect' but an amazing film.


One could argue (and I will :mad:) that Watership Down is a perfect film. In fact if I have to die on any hill it will be this hill.

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Blade runner is one of my favorites too
 
Is the mythology of the sun god Frith and El-ahrairah flawed? Well of course it is if you look at it too closely.

At one point in desperation Hazel tries to bargain with Lord Frith "my life for theirs", but Firth replies,

"There is not a day or night but a doe offers her life for her kittens, or some honest captain of Owsla his life for his Chief Rabbit's. Sometimes it is taken, sometimes it is not. But there is no bargain, for here, what is, is what must be."

That's stone cold stoicism where God doesn't even help those who help themselves. It's a naturalistic religion which could certainly be interpreted as social Darwinism with themes of overpopulation and population control. It's quite troubling if you really think about it or try to apply it outside of its context. But the real question is why did I think about it in the first place? Richard Adams developed a fictional rabbit religion that fairly and squarely solves the problem of evil. Fascinating thought, I think.

If something is perfect it is closed, final and finished. If something is thought provoking or ambiguous it is inherently open. When the Sandleford rabbits find themselves trapped between the hombre and the river, Bigwig shouts, "every rabbit for himself" but Hazel refuses. Neither is wrong from Lord Frith's point of view. Social solidarity is something that is developed separately to the religion/mythology of Lord Frith and El-ahrairah.

It is the conceptual flaws themselves that open up your thoughts in this story. But also your emotions. I find this part where Hazel is begging Lord Frith for help to be devastating in ways I find hard to express or even justify. For me there is something about it which is absolutely heartbreaking. But even here it is not about the perfect heartbreaking story, but about how it resonates with me. It very probably doesn't resonate with you in quite the same way. If I had first seen this at a different more cynical time in my life it wouldn't resonate with me in the same way.

The whole thing is sort of shakey if you want to pick it apart and test its perfectness. It is a story about anthropomorphised rabbits after all, it cannot possibly have a sense of completeness to it and therefore there can be no sense of perfection to it. And that's where the wonder of it resides. More nourishing than mere perfection.
It’s just a film
 
Sorry everyone. I'm getting a bit rabbity (pun intended) and emotional. But that's what Watership Down does to me. It doesn't do that to everyone, it would be awful if it did. If it were just a matter of the craft of film making done perfectly or at least really well, then it would be a matter of perfectly pushing certain buttons. But just as there is something of the subject in the object of a hrududu, there is something of me in Watership Down. I wouldn't even say it is objectively a great film, it is something a bit more important than that for me. It is a formative film. Some people find Camus profound, finding meaning in the face of suffering in an indifferent universe etc. But for me the concept of self sacrifice in the face of an indifferent universe transcends that. It captures my imagination somehow. It makes me the fool I am.

It's a subjective thing, but isn't there also a bit of the object in the subject.
 
I have not finished on Watership Down yet. There is one more thing that's definitely a sour note near the end and it just throws it at you and leaves you to deal with it yourself. It's well known to be an upsetting film especially for its U rating. This bit in spoiler code.

The dog gets released on the Efravan rabbits and flings their broken and bloodied bodies through the air to triumphant music. These rabbits are obviously the villains in the story but they are not universally without redemption in the books. The triumphant climax of the film is also one of its most horrific episodes. This is not an example of well rounded moral story telling, but a dose of brutal realism that you might get in a war film. It all fits in with the "nature is red in tooth and claw" philosophy of the story, but then that was always only ever one side of the philosophy, the other being hope, self-sacrifice and camaraderie but such sympathies are not extended to the Efravan enemy. It isn't even that it's an objective, "well this is happening now" scene, there is a definite sense of triumph.

Is this a flaw? Well yes, it's a dissonant note to end on in a film that's at least partly for kids. But as with all these flaws it challenges you to think and it will be the first film that a lot of young people will see that doesn't sugar coat anything. But that musical cue with that scene is off the mark IMO.
 
I have heard plenty of grown-ups rave about Paddington 2, and have since looked it up and saw that it enjoys ludicrously good critical reviews. I finally watched it for the first time today, and I have to say it seems to me the dictionary definition of a 'perfect film'.
 
Good point. I understand it as a sort of lament for the death of the American dream for the organised American working class. War, unemployment, the fracturing of the nuclear family, ideas of masculinity, identity and, I think, a certain innocence. The point at which millions of lives were about to go backwards
Have you read Stayin' Alive by Jefferson Cowie? Can't remember if it touches on Deer Hunter, but it's a great book in general about the cultural depictions of that specific moment, stuff like Joe and Blue Collar. And Saturday Night Fever.
The whole thing is sort of shakey if you want to pick it apart and test its perfectness. It is a story about anthropomorphised rabbits after all, it cannot possibly have a sense of completeness to it and therefore there can be no sense of perfection to it. And that's where the wonder of it resides. More nourishing than mere perfection.
I've still never actually seen/read it, but did you ever come across Fall of Efrafa? Post-rocky crust that, as the name suggests, that super inspired by the mythology of Watership Down, their albums were called Owsla, Elil, and Inle. If you have any interest at all in post-rocky crust or crusty post-rock or whatever, might be worth a listen?
 
I've still never actually seen/read it, but did you ever come across Fall of Efrafa? Post-rocky crust that, as the name suggests, that super inspired by the mythology of Watership Down, their albums were called Owsla, Elil, and Inle. If you have any interest at all in post-rocky crust or crusty post-rock or whatever, might be worth a listen?

No, but that sounds like the sort of thing I would like. Thanks!
 
hitmouse yes I have, a superb book. Really interrogates the period well. I’d highly recommend it to anyone interested in the politics, culture and economic siege of the industrial working class in the 1970’s. This is also excellent:

 
A Bronx Tale.

Robert de Niros directorial debut. Based on a play by Chaz Palminteri, brilliant writer. He's The guy who plays the gangster in it.

Yeah it's a certain type of film, it's that one that Robert de Niro always did back when he was good.
When de Niro was good he was one the finest actors out there, He even learned to drive a bus for his role in that movie 😎
 
Surprised to find I've not commented on this thread already but here goes for my first attempt...

After a film-buying binge before christmas, it seems I've finally found a couple more films recently that sit under the "horror" tag that my other half can stomach. And whilst I don't regard yesterday's watch of Night of the Demon an entirely perfect film (though it is great, don't get me wrong), my partner's follow-up choice definitely is; ladies and gentlemen, I posit to you that Wallace and Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit definitively belongs in this thread.

The puns, both verbal and visual. The caricatures. The huge-deal-made-of-a-tiny-thing in a quaintly arch british fashion. The expertly loving homages to so many horror classics (and so many more). The somewhat surprising degrees of risqué humour which smack of a sly wink at the censor after a few sherries. The ever-exquisite detail in the sets and characters. The alchemical blending of pathos, bathos and ethos. The ever-present assertion of the primacy of cheese; this film has it all.
 
Surprised to find I've not commented on this thread already but here goes for my first attempt...

After a film-buying binge before christmas, it seems I've finally found a couple more films recently that sit under the "horror" tag that my other half can stomach. And whilst I don't regard yesterday's watch of Night of the Demon an entirely perfect film (though it is great, don't get me wrong), my partner's follow-up choice definitely is; ladies and gentlemen, I posit to you that Wallace and Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit definitively belongs in this thread.

The puns, both verbal and visual. The caricatures. The huge-deal-made-of-a-tiny-thing in a quaintly arch british fashion. The expertly loving homages to so many horror classics (and so many more). The somewhat surprising degrees of risqué humour which smack of a sly wink at the censor after a few sherries. The ever-exquisite detail in the sets and characters. The alchemical blending of pathos, bathos and ethos. The ever-present assertion of the primacy of cheese; this film has it all.
It's incredibly well plotted, isn't it? Hardly a wasted frame.
 
Im thinking "perfect" as meaning "very difficult to imagine how it could be improved" - so ...

Dangerous Liasons
Galaxy Quest
The Godfather
Pulp Fiction
Casablanca
 
I thought Fantastic Mr. Fox was pretty perfect, while not my favourite movie ever it was still great. I also absolutely love The Suicide Squad (the new one, not the bad one), i cant find anything about it I would change. same goes for Excision, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, and Tyrannosaur
 
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