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Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

dominion said:
He sure is. I managed to get one in, sort of by linking to my blog:

http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/facing-up-to-islamic-and-other-extremism.html

but when I re-entered the fray with this (below) I got blocked. kept a copy so you can read it, Fail to see what the problem is.

"This morning the EDL page has over 114,000 ‘likes’, meaning that over 114,000 people are now part of the EDL network and receive EDL messages in their fb feed. I’d say that this is important in a political sense.”
That is worrying and shows why we need to respond to the the attrocity by (a) standing up to the BNP/EDL and (b) the Hate preachers of Islamism at the same time.
Another left wing blog had problems with local salafists last weekend:
http://tendancecoatesy.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/jimas-gets-police-to-threaten-tendance-coatesy/
These people are dangerous and a threat to us all regardles of how “left-wing” people consider themselves. The Salafists in Tunisia have already been attacking Trade Unions and at one point burnt down 3 TU offices which was reported on Labourstart.
It needs to be remembered that these people are also a threat to Muslims, not just because they aim to create strife in the wider community (by provoking the boneheads of the far-right) but want to impose their will on other Muslims the vast majority of whom just want to get on with their lives.
Everyone needs to remember by the way that there is no one Muslim Community. My immediate neighbours are from Kosovo and are totally westernised whilst many of my work colleagues differ in country of origin, dress and culture.
Tackling the hate preachers will have to take a multi-faceted approach.
Click to expand...

Yep, people seem to forget that an open part of the extremists strategy is to provoke racist violent reprisals on ordinary Muslims, many (probably most) of whom they regard as being insufficiently Muslim.
 
J Ed said:
Yep, people seem to forget that an open part of the extremists strategy is to provoke racist violent reprisals on ordinary Muslims, many (probably most) of whom they regard as being insufficiently Muslim.
Click to expand...


Just to elaborate on what I wrote, because I don't think I explained it properly, this is the sort of thing I mean, It's an extreme example but I think it helps to illustrate my point about the contempt that these people hold the majority of Muslims in.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ord-numbers-embrace-muslim-faith-2175178.html

Daoud, 23

Daoud was a self-confirmed "racist" two years ago who knew nothing about Islam and Daoud, 23

Daoud was a self-confirmed "racist" two years ago who knew nothing about Islam and supported the BNP. Now a Muslim, he describes himself as a Salafi - the deeply socially conservative and ultra-orthodox sect of Islam whose followers try to live exactly like the Prophet did.

"I was very ignorant to Islam for most of my life and then I went on holiday to Morocco, which was the first time I was exposed to Muslims. I was literally a racist before Morocco and by the time I was flying home on the plane a week later, I had already decided to become a Muslim."

"I realised Islam is not a foreign religion, but had a lot of similarities with what I already believed. When I came back home to Somerset, I spent three months trying to find local Muslims, but there wasn't even a mosque in my town. I eventually met Sufi Muslims who took me to Cyprus to convert.

"When I came back, I was finding out a lot of what they were saying was contradictory to what it said in the Qur'an. I wasn't finding them very authentic, to be honest. I went to London and became involved with Hizb-ut-Tahrir, the political group who call for the establishment of an Islamic state.

"But while I believe in the benefits of Sharia law, I left this group as well. The problem was it was too into politics and not as concerned with practicing the religion. For me, it is about keeping an Islamic appearance and studying hard. I think we do need an Islamic state, but the way to achieve it is not through political activism or fighting. Allah doesn't change the situation of people until they see what's within themselves.

"I have a big dislike for culture in Islamic communities, when it means bringing new things into the religion, such as polytheism or encouraging music and dance. There is something pure about Salafi Muslims; we take every word of the Qur'an for truth. I have definitely found the right path. I also met my wife through the community and we are expecting our first child next year."

. Now a Muslim, he describes himself as a Salafi - the deeply socially conservative and ultra-orthodox sect of Islam whose followers try to live exactly like the Prophet did.

"I was very ignorant to Islam for most of my life and then I went on holiday to Morocco, which was the first time I was exposed to Muslims. I was literally a racist before Morocco and by the time I was flying home on the plane a week later, I had already decided to become a Muslim."

"I realised Islam [J Ed: by which he means Salafism, not what most Muslims believe] is not a foreign religion, but had a lot of similarities with what I already believed. When I came back home to Somerset, I spent three months trying to find local Muslims, but there wasn't even a mosque in my town. I eventually met Sufi Muslims who took me to Cyprus to convert.

"When I came back, I was finding out a lot of what they were saying was contradictory to what it said in the Qur'an. I wasn't finding them very authentic, to be honest. I went to London and became involved with Hizb-ut-Tahrir, the political group who call for the establishment of an Islamic state.

"I have a big dislike for culture in Islamic communities, when it means bringing new things into the religion, such as polytheism or encouraging music and dance. There is something pure about Salafi Muslims; we take every word of the Qur'an for truth. I have definitely found the right path. I also met my wife through the community and we are expecting our first child next year."
Click to expand...
 
I've been out of the country for a few days so, apologies if this has already been explored in the thread, but has it yet been established if the attack at Woolwich was a co-incidental/'random' attack on any member of the armed forces or was the soldier killed because of his membership of a regiment with a proven record of abuse and torture at Camp Bread Basket?
 
brogdale said:
I've been out of the country for a few days so, apologies if this has already been explored in the thread, but has it yet been established if the attack at Woolwich was a co-incidental/'random' attack on any member of the armed forces or was the soldier killed because of his membership of a regiment with a proven record of abuse and torture at Camp Bread Basket?
Click to expand...

Dunno, I would suggest that such details have not been explored publicly by the authorities or the press, though I havent exactly been keeping up with every story in the media. Most of the media focus I've seen has been on further arrests, the main suspects have still not been questioned, and attention has been more in the direction of the background of the two. As for this thread, its developed a particular focus on extremism and how its not dealt with by certain entities such as those on university campuses, rather than exploring every detail thats come out in the press.
 
Boyadee speaks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/28/woolwich-murder-faith-humanity-boya-dee

Co-existence: to live in peace with another or others, despite differences. Can we truly co-exist? This is a question that has plagued mankind for centuries and one I've found myself discussing with anyone willing to help find the answer.

Last week I was thrust into the public eye after observing the recent murder in Woolwich. My vivid commentary on Twitter [since deleted] seemed to strongly resonate with people. I've lived in Woolwich all my life and I've seen my fair share of violence across the capital, from guns being let off by defiant college students who have had enough of a lifetime of being bullied and victimised by their peers, to knife fights where stomachs have been sliced open and intestines spilled out on to the street. However, I'm no one special, people around the world see these things every day and that's why I wanted to write, because despite this, I still have faith in humanity.


I've been asked why I didn't take money from media organisations in return for spilling the proverbial beans on my version of events. My answer to that is that I'm not driven by money and never will be. What occurred did not happen in secrecy. The events of that day were and are public knowledge. Out of respect for the victim's family I chose not to repeat what I'd already posted online. For me it was morally the right thing to do and I stand by my decision, but when the Guardian hollered at me to write a piece on peaceful coexistence, I couldn't have jumped any quicker at the chance to write on a subject I care about.


Co-existence is and has always been a topic we fail to come to a definitive conclusion about. When approaching this subject, some questions that have come to be the most significant in the quest for peace immediately came to my mind, while perfectly reasonable answers almost simultaneously counteract, and win the argument. Is it down to differences in opinions? Is it our innate human characteristics? Is it due to a global battle for resources? Or is it just a dog-eat-dog world?


My answer to each of those questions is a resounding NO.


To my understanding, all of the world's belief systems ultimately project a message of living in respect of one another in mutual harmony. You don't have to be Plato to understand that purely coexisting is effectively what we're all trying to achieve. Our instinctive nature as civilised human beings is not to be unkind or malicious towards one another but quite the opposite. I bet that regardless of culture, race or background the majority of the world's 7 billion-strong population will agree. So while it probably wasn't the best idea to build our economies to be over-reliant on fossil fuels, it's plausible to assume that advances in technology and infrastructure we depend on today might not have materialised had we not have done so.


Despite the long chain of complex issues that affect our co-existence, the human race is naturally disposed to want to solve the world's problems. Look at advances in healthcare, or our constant wildlife preservation campaigns. Innately, it is human nature to care.


Scientists say breakthroughs in how we harness energy will soon render the fuel issue obsolete, while environmentalists retort that we should prioritise the global water shortage. To all that, I say let it be. We are destined to find a solution, just as we have time and time again. These problems will simply take twice as long to solve if we are in a state of perpetual conflict with one another.
I've seen some crazy things go down growing up in south-east London and it saddens me to think how emotionally numb I've become to accept it as the norm and carry on. Statistics show that the number of violent crimes reported has dropped significantly in the last 10 years and according to these figures it would seem as though conflicts of race, ethnicity or culture are no longer the main predicaments we face.


If that's the case, and although this could be argued against, let's not backpedal in light of recent events. I've seen how the human condition can be both loving and bitterly cruel. Regardless, both my feet remain firmly planted on the positive side of the divide and I'm urging us all to continue on the quest for equality and peace.


Let's not allow the isolated acts of some chip away at the foundations of co-existence we've built across London and the UK. We've come a very long way in learning how to integrate multiple cultures in singular communities. So, in reality coexistence is not such an alien term as we might think it is. Communication is key: let's keep talking, sharing and learning along the road to utopia. We are not blind to the fact that there's a problem and I am not saying we have all the answers, but we are capable of finding the solutions; it's in our human DNA.




Those in power with the ability and responsibility to make immediate changes will do so, but what the masses have is greater access to the truth and a voice. That voice is now loud enough to force change. We are in an age where information can be shared between millions within seconds. Social media gives us an immediate platform to share information. I stand proud in saying I speak from the perspective of the average person: I believe we all carry the same concerns and live for the same joys. Humanity is the only religion.
Click to expand...

:cool:
 
Whilst it's clear who did it the nature of the offence is important. It might be argued this is hate crime.
 
I was also disappointed that he didn't perform one of his tracks while the closing credits rolled.

I'd like to have seen Jon Snow nodding his head along in the background while Boya Dee did 'Gash by Da Hour'.
 
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