Windrush Square, Brixton - news and discussion

[gaijingirl]

I'd really like to go to this event - especially the lantern lit procession - but it doesn't say what time that bit is - does anyone know? With a new baby we can't really just hang out there all day - it's all a bit "military precision timing" at the moment...

 

[pboi]

thought you were going to Canada!

 

[gaijingirl]

thought you were going to Canada!

who me? Have you got me confused with Missez or something?

 

[Nanker Phelge]

who me? Have you got me confused with Missez or something?

He has...

...and she went.

 

[Jonti]

I also fall into the 'too much flat open space' school of thought - which I assume they did to make it easier to police but it doesn't exactly make for a sociable space. I guess time will tell how it gets used, and those people who were right can have a round of 'told you so' in six months time

I'm afraid it's already being called "Windswept Square"

 

[lang rabbie]

The news story on the Lambeth website has been slightly tweaked

"From 1pm onwards on Saturday 27 February activities will include live music performances, dance demonstrations and family art workshops. There will also be stalls by Spacemakers, Brixton Village and the Brixton Pound. The event will conclude with a lantern-lit procession led by local school children and a magnificent Phoenix.

From 1pm - 4pm on Sunday 28 February family activities and art workshops will take place throughout the afternoon."

As far as I can ascertain, the lantern workshop and more spectacular stuff will all be happening on Saturday between 4pm and 5pm.

 

[linerider]

The obvious thing would be to put the farmer's market and the old Brixon Bazaar stalls on there at the weekends to give it some focus. My main concern is that it will become a drug dealing space. Before the redevelopment, there were always drug dealers patrolling both corners between Rushcroft Road and Saltoun Road after dark.

the market has gone out to tender with a group including stuart the watchman as one of the bidders.it will be friday,saturday and sunday,sounds bazaar to me.

 

[tarannau]

And, unless Stuart opens up a second stall, it's exactly as predicted. Windrush Square competing with and cannibalising the existing longstanding market.

 

[miss minnie]

I wonder if market-hosting logistics were taken into account in the design of the square. Will the stall holders be allowed to drive their vehicles in to load/unload, where would they park etc.

What happens when an event is schedule for the square? I couldn't see myself doing any food shopping at the farmer's market if it meant having to deal with crowds of people watching music etc.

A market that features crafts, street food etc. might fare better in the new square.

 

[Jonti]

the market has gone out to tender with a group including stuart the watchman as one of the bidders.it will be friday,saturday and sunday,sounds bazaar to me.

I'm not aware that the tender has gone out, but yes, the market traders have formed a community interest company so they can bid for the tender if/when that happens, and stuart has been voted in as ceo.

 

[Jonti]

And, unless Stuart opens up a second stall, it's exactly as predicted. Windrush Square competing with and cannibalising the existing longstanding market.

It's true that, if the new community interest company gets the tender then Stuart would need to work full time as ceo, and someone else would need to run the watchman stall, if it is to be kept going.

But in my view, the best guarantee that new market venues will not simply cannibalise existing trade, it to have market traders themselves run the market.

 

[teuchter]

I'd imagine that a weekend market on the square, if it's a farmers market type thing, would be going after a different bunch of customers from the regular market anyway, wouldn't it?

 

[tarannau]

Not really. It's food at the end of the day and folks can only eat and shop so much. In effect you may be creaming off some of the conventional market's more affluent customers and diverting their spend by offering something perhaps more targeted to that group.

 

[tarannau]

Thanks for the info though Jonti. That at least sounds vaguely postive, although plenty of issues remain.

 

[miss minnie]

Some of the market's more affluent customers probably already divert their spend to M&S or outside of Brixton entirely.

I never bought meat from the regular market, used to buy it from M&S but now I buy it at the farmer's market. Loss for M&S, not the regular market.

 

[tarannau]

It goes beyond just meat though. Pretty much all conventional veg competes, as does snack food, sausages, fruit etc.

I use the farmers market a lot too. And, as balanced as I try and keep things, I'm more than aware that it's cutting into my spend in the normal market. Frustratingly they're not even open at the same times - so it's not as though you can easily plan and shop around either. I even find myself not buying things on Saturday because I think they'll be in the farmer's market the next day

 

[Jonti]

I can't say for sure, but my impression is that the farmers' market probably competes more with M&S, than it does with the established markets.

I find it hard to believe that the wet fish trade, for example, has been in the slightest bit impacted by the "rod caught fish" on offer. And I read things like this on the farmers' market thread here

I buy things from Brixton Farmer's Market, but also have been using Brixton market for 30 years. I buy things from the Farmer's Market that Brixton market doesn't do. The only people losing my custom as a result are Tescos and M&S. The Farmer's Market stuff is far far better though. The pieman is brilliant....hope he's there tomorrow.....

It's only open on a sunday when the other markets are shut and from what I've seen it's not in direct competition with the street markets or the arcades anyway, but offers something new and distinct.

 

[tarannau]

Ach, it definitely competes on basic veg for me - carrots, sacks of onions spring onions and brassicas generally come from the Farmers Market now. Not potatoes though, surprisingly. Wet fish and meat I agree are slightly different.

Guttingly some of the choice from the Farmers Market has been a little ropey of late and I probably would have been better with a greater choice from the Saturday market. I'm currently working my way through the second sack of ropeyish onions from the FM for example

 

[Jonti]

That's my impression too. Properly managed, I reckon the street market can pretty much take on all comers for your standard fruit and veg.

I don't see the "direct to the consumer" shtick of the farmers' market brand making much impact it in your standard fruit'n'veg sector. Something more is needed. "Farmers' Market" fish is rod caught; the meat free range. An organic fruit and veg farmer may find the farmers' market works for them, but then that wouldn't be in direct competition with the established street market.

Yes, there are lots of issues. If Brixton Market is to expand without its trader base, it needs to be managed by people with experience of market trading, and close local ties.

 

[linerider]

I'm not aware that the tender has gone out, but yes, the market traders have formed a community interest company so they can bid for the tender if/when that happens, and stuart has been voted in as ceo.

Their flyer gives the impression that it's gone out to tender,and say that it will open around easter which is only 6 weeks away.which doesn't leave much time if it hasn't gone to tender yet.

 

[pboi]

so do we have timescales yet? I want to go down but not hang aboot

 

[miss minnie]

It goes beyond just meat though. Pretty much all conventional veg competes, as does snack food, sausages, fruit etc.

Sausages are meat btw, at least the ones from the Giggly Pig certainly are.



The rules of the London Farmer's Market mean that the regular market will always trump on non-English food, so spend on imported staples of the Brixton market will never be diverted.

The regulars will still corner the market on anything imported, exotic or out of season, such as mangos, pineapples, bananas, lemons, grapes, yam, breadfruit etc... and in winter: tomatoes, courgettes, salad leaves, beans, broccoli, oranges, peas etc..

Which pretty much leaves potatoes, onions, cabbage, sprouts, cauliflower, carrots, apples, leeks and pears which are in competition all year round. Ok there is one farmer's stall atm that has small bags of salad leaves (no lettuce) and may or may not have broccoli or spinach (none last week).

I was asking the chutney lady if she made pineapple jam and she reminded me of the rules.

Everything on sale has been grown, raised, baked, caught, shot or made by hand by the people selling it. We have strict rules guaranteeing that everything is sold by the farmer who grew it. No one is allowed to sell another farmer's produce. All of our markets are certified by the National Association of farmers' markets.

All the farms are within 100 miles of London. We even visit the farms to make sure farmers are growing what they're selling. We have strict rules that determine who can sell at our markets. Please look in our policy section to find more details

 

[Jonti]

Their flyer gives the impression that it's gone out to tender,and say that it will open around easter which is only 6 weeks away.which doesn't leave much time if it hasn't gone to tender yet.

No it doesn't.

And the less time is given to respond to the tender, the greater will be the disadvantage faced by the traders' new brixton market management community interest company, compared to firms already up and running markets

I'll find out if the invitations to tender have gone out, and let you know, one way or the other.

 

[linerider]

No it doesn't.

And the less time is given to respond to the tender, the greater will be the disadvantage faced by the traders' new brixton market management community interest company, compared to firms already up and running markets

I'll find out if the invitations to tender have gone out, and let you know, one way or the other.

cool.
I've heard that the firm who run North Cross Rd market in East Dulwich are bidding as well,but that might just be a rumour

 

[Gixxer1000]

The previous layout was incoherent with lots of bits that didn't really relate to each other.

As is the new, random chairs (how long will they last?), redundant public loos get a lick of paint to the railings but thats it, "Windrushes" are French Banlieu specials. Piss poor water feature that isnt a focal point. Shame realy, personnally I would have liked to have seen small open air amphitheatre excavated in the centre, but there was never a chance of that after all this "public" space is destined to be a bus station in a couple of years

 

[Jonti]

The local nomenclatura secretly opened their new square this morning.

The public were not invited for fear of a mass outbreak of facepalming.

 

[tarannau]

Really? I walked across the square proper for the first time this morning, part of their cunning plan to vary my commute every day with an exciting new series of roadworks, barriers and obstructions. It was alright really, like walking across a bigger square. Slick

Some posters may be glad to know that there's not just one outcast drongo chair, but room for several social inadequates. I particularly like the one towards Saltoun Road, positioned with its back towards a joyful grouping of 5 assembled chairs. You could get quite a wonderful 'in-crowd/outcase nerd' shot with little effort.

 

[Jonti]

It's all a little embarrassing really

Aaaanyways, I'm looking forward to the Black Cultural Archives relocating back to Brixton, it'll make a big difference to the square when they finally move into Raleigh Hall.

Also, the old toilets are still there, but sealed, and there's no plans to reopen them. All the essential services are still in place, so there's a possibility of maybe replacing the structures with a small cafe building.

 

[ajdown]

The local nomenclatura secretly opened their new square this morning.

The public were not invited for fear of a mass outbreak of facepalming.

Our bus nearly ran the Mayor (or at least someone official looking with lots of bling round his nec) over as we were heading down the hill earlier.

There seemed to be an awful lot of plod there on the new square. Is that normal when the mayor is about?

 

[netbob]

I just went for a wander round and it's looking pretty good. A few people were sitting out eating their sarnies, a bunch of kids were being shown round by (I assume) the Brixton Society. It feels a bit exposed to the road, but I guess that will change as things grow.


aj, the police were for Tessa Jowel I think