Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if they haven't been utterly screwed up by now they should be resilient enough to see this through.
White civil rights leader has pretended to be black for years
- Thread starter trashpony
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
a heartbreaking berk of staggering genius
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
All the arguments I've read that excuse her behaviour or give it validity by comparing her to transgender people have inevitably boiled down to TERF arguments that imply or in some cases state implicitly trat trans women are really men pretending to be women.
I hope the credibilty of those who made such arguments is now shot to pieces.
Still sad to see how many people accepted those arguments uncritically and yet again put trans people on the defensive!
The fundamental difference is that gender identity is not a choice, is innate, leads to discrimination regardless of whether that person transitions or not. Racial identity is not innate and has to be taught. Racial identity does not lead to discrimination, only perceived race does.
TERFs have contended for decades that gender identity is not real and that gender is entirely a construct. And yet their experiments with trying to construct gender identities for young children have always failed. Over and over and over, destroying lives in the process.
And that's my final word.
I hope the credibilty of those who made such arguments is now shot to pieces.
Still sad to see how many people accepted those arguments uncritically and yet again put trans people on the defensive!
The fundamental difference is that gender identity is not a choice, is innate, leads to discrimination regardless of whether that person transitions or not. Racial identity is not innate and has to be taught. Racial identity does not lead to discrimination, only perceived race does.
TERFs have contended for decades that gender identity is not real and that gender is entirely a construct. And yet their experiments with trying to construct gender identities for young children have always failed. Over and over and over, destroying lives in the process.
And that's my final word.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
she'll be terfed out
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
All the interviews I've seen have been terrible in terms of doing follow up. They set it up, get her to say she identifies as black, then put to her that she sued the university for anti-white prejudice - and then let her off the hook. That really does go to the heart of her dishonesty and she's allowed to waffle her way out of it. An interesting question for her would have been 'okay, you felt discriminated against when you were white, since then have you felt discriminated against as a black person?'
Treacle Toes
Time
Nah, she will be able to answer this easily and endear people to her in the process.
I'd like to hear answers about her lies...the using of real life/lived traumas to validate her own story. Why she encourages racism in her son etc etc.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Not bad. But how about Mighty Afro-whitey?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
She started discriminating herself as a black person! To add an air of authenticity, I guess.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Hang on, I've never seen a DNA result confirming my parentage either!
I mean, ok, like Dolezal, I was brought up by them and also kind of look like both of them but no one ever did the full Jeremy Kyle treatment so how do I know?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
confirming.Hang on, I've never seen a DNA result conforming my parentage either!
I mean, ok, like Dolezal, I was brought up by them and also kind of look like both of them but no one ever did the full Jeremy Kyle treatment so how do I know?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I had a mental image of a Jeremy Kyle type shootout. She be vulnerable when the inevitable fight kicked off, handfuls of hairweave coming out, smudged fake tan etc.Hang on, I've never seen a DNA result confirming my parentage either!
I mean, ok, like Dolezal, I was brought up by them and also kind of look like both of them but no one ever did the full Jeremy Kyle treatment so how do I know?
Hang on, I've never seen a DNA result confirming my parentage either!
I mean, ok, like Dolezal, I was brought up by them and also kind of look like both of them but no one ever did the full Jeremy Kyle treatment so how do I know?
Innit. I also love Hip Hop and was addicted to Diff'rent Strokes as a kid
Not just 'terfs' tbf. It's a totally mainstream feminist (and not just feminist) theory, with a great deal of supporting evidence.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
When I was in New York people tended to assume i was Hispanic which probably would have caused me problems if i grew up in the US. However, in Britain, apart from one incident in Glagow where a frightening looking bloke kept insisting i wasnt British which led to me fleeing the scene when he became violent ive always idenitfied as and mostly been identified as white.
Innit. I also love Hip Hop and was addicted to Diff'rent Strokes as a kid
Yup loved DS - but Gary Coleman ended up on hard times flogging Wonga type products to the sub-primers.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Show me that evidence - gender idenitity has been proved to be innate in children as young as three and four. Not a construct.
As a trans person i know from personal experience that gender identity is innate - i fought against it all my life! To say gender is entirely a construct is to exclude trans people completely.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
Or better a room full of black female activists
I'll admit I haven't read very widely on the subject, but I found the arguments in 'delusions of gender' very compelling.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
tbf, three and four are plenty old enough for culturally constructed ideas to be taking hold.
Does the book deal with transgender specifically? Been on my reading list for a while, that one.
ETA:
Even if gender identity ought to be viewed as primarily a culturally conditioned construct, that still leaves room to distinguish it sharply from some hypothetical notion of transrace. That cultural conditioning begins before the child can speak, right from birth, and so a gender identity can exist at a very young age and be so deeply ingrained that it feels innate. But the same cannot be said about 'being' black or 'being' white. Parents aren't reinforcing racial stereotypes in subtle ways from birth - often children don't even discover the idea of race until a later age, let alone have a strong identification with one or another, along with particular stereotypical social responses associated with that racial identity.
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Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
No, I don't think it does iirc.
It's a very good book and is well worth reading. I do think its scope gets overstated on occasion when its mentioned on here though. What it does is look in depth at the claims that various scientists have made to have identified innate gender differences and does what (appears to me at least) to be a good job of demolishing them. What it doesn't do, or claim to do I don't think, is demonstrate the reverse - that there definitely aren't any.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
But what makes some young boy children idenitify as female as young as 3 and 4 ( & girls idenitify as male) if there isn't something innate that tells us what gender we are?
My parents intended me to be male and I tried my best until I was 47. That to me says there is something innate.
Doctors used to try to explain it using the assumption that gender was a construct by saying that trans women were picking up on positive female associations in their early life, but this is has been utterly disproved.
Attempts to socialise intersex babies as either male or female according to whatever "corrective" surgery they were subjected to have also failed. No matter how the children are socialised they still cling to their innate gender identity often transitioning.
Misguided attempts to socialise cis boys as girls or cis girls as boys have also all failed, strongly implying an innate gender identity.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
But I'm talking about gender identity. We all have that and in something like 99% of people gender identity and sex match. The only people who become aware of their gender identity particularly are people like trans people who have it denied or questioned.
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