What makes a species an ok pet?

[spanglechick]

So, obviously, dogs and cats - while capable of living in the wild, are essentially domesticated species who over hundreds of thousands of years have become for want of a better word, designed to live with people as pets.

But what about other animals? I was just reading the hamster thread, and it seems pretty clear that hamsters don’t actually enjoy being pets, and would rather not live in cages and to be handled by clumsy children before dying a couple of years later among the sawdust.

So what makes something an acceptable pet? It strikes me that some animals that are currently not acceptable as household pets, for example sloths, would actually enjoy being pets. I might be wrong but certainly they don’t seem to be particularly interested in other sloths most of the time (other than for mating), and they also seem to quite enjoy contact with humans. Compare this with the aforementioned hamster. Or perhaps worse, birds kept in houses or cages – denied the chance to fly. How can that be anything other than cruel?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Rabbits seem like daft pets to me. They don't like humans bothering them and act out when denied their freedom.

 

[Reno]

So, obviously, dogs and cats - while capable of living in the wild, are essentially domesticated species who over hundreds of thousands of years have become for want of a better word, designed to live with people as pets.

But what about other animals? I was just reading the hamster thread, and it seems pretty clear that hamsters don’t actually enjoy being pets, and would rather not live in cages and to be handled by clumsy children before dying a couple of years later among the sawdust.

So what makes something an acceptable pet? It strikes me that some animals that are currently not acceptable as household pets, for example sloths, would actually enjoy being pets. I might be wrong but certainly they don’t seem to be particularly interested in other sloths most of the time (other than for mating), and they also seem to quite enjoy contact with humans. Compare this with the aforementioned hamster. Or perhaps worse, birds kept in houses or cages – denied the chance to fly. How can that be anything other than cruel?

Sloths are wild and solitary animals and don't enjoy other sloth or human companionship, but they are kept as pets in some countries.

Dogs and to a lesser degree cats have evolved to live among humans as they have been kept as working animals and pets for many thousands of years. That's why they are considered the most suitable pets among mammals, rather than otherwise wild animals. Rabbits, guinea pigs, birds and other smaller animals are often held in conditions which are unsuitable, though there is not much they can do about it.

There is a case to be made that all pet ownership is unethical, due to the abuse so many pets suffer.

 

[platinumsage]

I think it's very hard to determine. We assume for example that birds actually enjoy flying about, but perhaps some of them would willingly trade that for a warm home and regular sumptuous meals. A bird might look at a human trudging five miles through the rain and back each day to work in a factory, and having bread and pottage for dinner, and assume the human is having fun and would hate to live in a tree house all day eating berries and seeds.

 

[krtek a houby]

Snails

 

[Reno]

Snails

 

[existentialist]

Sloths are wild and solitary animals and don't enjoy other sloth or human companionship, but they are kept as pets in some countries.

Dogs and to a lesser degree cats have evolved to live among humans as they have been kept as working animals and pets for many thousands of years. That's why they are considered the most suitable pets among mammals, rather than otherwise wild animals. Rabbits, guinea pigs, birds and other smaller animals are often held in conditions which are unsuitable, though there is not much they can do about it.

There is a case to be made that all pet ownership is unethical, due to the abuse so many pets suffer.

Yeah, I think a lot of pets end up in unsuitable situations - either in terms of living space (tiny cages), or social (Syrian hamsters are most definitely NOT social).

A good example is rabbits: they live in large social groups, and they are prey animals. Which means that keeping a rabbit on its own is putting it in an unnatural situation, which causes stress; so is keeping it in a tiny cage, which prevents it from exhibiting natural behaviours like running around, hiding, and being able to get an appropriate amount of exercise. So all that is, sort of, passive neglect - the animal can be much loved, but is still being kept in conditions which will cause it (di)stress. Nowadays, any pet rescue agency will be insistent that social animals are housed in groups (with rabbits, as a pair as a minimum), and in accommodation that gives them space to move around - which in the case of rabbits, is considerably bigger than a typical rabbit hutch.

That said, if you do get it right, they can live happy, contented lives: rabbits do bond and connect with humans, but they do need to be with a minimum of one other rabbit, and with lots of space. They also don't, generally, like being picked up, and they certainly aren't good pets for children, who don't tend to respect their needs very well. They are often also not fed correctly, mainly because the tradition of keeping rabbits was historically about keeping them for food (or fur), so their diet was geared up to getting them to grow, and not so much for their long term health - rabbits need lots of hay, for dental health as well as gut health, and the typical pellet/"muesli" based diet isn't particularly good for either, just for getting them fattened up and lasting the year or so until they're fully grown: a healthy rabbit diet should be about 70-90% hay. The pair I have were rescued with severe dental problems owing to lack of a proper diet, and I don't imagine being constantly pregnant did the female any favours either, not to mention that the rabbit rescue I got them from had a very significant number of their offspring on their books, too. So that's another kindness - getting them neutered, which both of mine have been.

I think you're right, Reno, in that pet ownership is, inherently, unethical. There are things we can do to reduce that level of unethicality, and if those are done - especially if you're taking pets that have already been born, and for whom the only alternative, practically, is euthanasia - then perhaps there's a reasonable line to be trodden, but in general terms, I don't think we should think that we are doing them any kind of favour or service by taking them on as pets, far less actively breeding them as such. On the other hand, there is no doubt that a well-looked-after and well-loved pet is also capable of providing a lot for its "owner" (I really don't like that term - maybe "keeper"), and both pets and humans can gain something from the experience.

 

[Yossarian]

It strikes me that some animals that are currently not acceptable as household pets, for example sloths, would actually enjoy being pets. I might be wrong but certainly they don’t seem to be particularly interested in other sloths most of the time (other than for mating), and they also seem to quite enjoy contact with humans.

Sloths make terrible pets, according to this conservation group - they are solitary creatures and apparently the only reason they look calm in "sloth selfies" is because their reaction to stressful situations is to stay alert and very still. They're also stronger than people, pound for pound, and have claws that can do very serious damage. But the pet trade is still causing a rapid decline in wild sloth numbers.

Why Sloths do Not make good Pets | The Sloth Conservation Foundation

The main reason that sloths do not make good pets is that they are wild animals. Although they have the reputation of being sleepy, easygoing animals they are best suited for life in the canopy of the tropical rainforest.

slothconservation.org

It would be a different story if they'd been gradually domesticated over hundreds of generations, but it seems none of the pre-Columbian civilisations had much use for guard sloths.

 

[pug]

Rats have lived alongside humans for a long time and are said to make excellent pets.

 

[StoneRoad]

I said on the hamster thread that we have a couple of hamsters.
As a species I wouldn't say they would make good pets for the in-experienced - when young they move fast, have a tendency to bite and "bark" but their biggest drawback is that they are largely nocturnal.
We keep our two separately, in adjacent habitats, which have a couple of nestbox / houses, several levels. One has a tube run and the other a wheel. They both get hay, straw and shavings as bedding and build complex nests - with a separate toilet area. One frequent activity is to "pouch" the new supply of food and carry it down to one of several storage points. With the care and attention our two have had, they are at least habituated to being handled. Indeed, they will come to their door and often climb into their exercise ball, then charge around at some speed to explore.
We must be doing something right, as out of the number we've had in the past two decades, only one lived less than three years - and he had cancer, according to the vet - all the others managed at least an active four years.
e2a1 - talking about the larger syrian variety not the dwarf / russian versions

e2a2 - comments about gerbils to follow

 

[MickiQ]

I would say only dogs and cats are suitable animals to be pets because they can interact fully with their humans, anything else no matter how humanely it is treated is effectively being kept against its natural instincts.
It's significant that cats are the only domestic animals that are allowed to run free and come and go as they please.
Dogs are and always have been special cases, they have been involved with humans for so long they are more an extension of our species than a separate one.

 

[Badgers]

Cats are crap pets

 

[Aladdin]

I think if your pet doesn't eat you...that's a positive...

 

[Reno]

Sloths make terrible pets, according to this conservation group - they are solitary creatures and apparently the only reason they look calm in "sloth selfies" is because their reaction to stressful situations is to stay alert and very still. They're also stronger than people, pound for pound, and have claws that can do very serious damage. But the pet trade is still causing a rapid decline in wild sloth numbers.

Why Sloths do Not make good Pets | The Sloth Conservation Foundation

The main reason that sloths do not make good pets is that they are wild animals. Although they have the reputation of being sleepy, easygoing animals they are best suited for life in the canopy of the tropical rainforest.

slothconservation.org

It would be a different story if they'd been gradually domesticated over hundreds of generations, but it seems none of the pre-Columbian civilisations had much use for guard sloths.

I just did some research to see whether any wild animals which seem relatively placid would make good pets and none of them do. I really want a wombat !

 

[JimW]

U OK pet?
No Nigel, I'm a sentient being with my own needs and mode of living.

 

[fishfinger]

I just did some research to see whether any wild animals which seem relatively placid would make good pets and none of them do. I really want a wombat !

I have an imaginary menagerie that includes wombats among its members

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I would say only dogs and cats are suitable animals to be pets because they can interact fully with their humans, anything else no matter how humanely it is treated is effectively being kept against its natural instincts.
It's significant that cats are the only domestic animals that are allowed to run free and come and go as they please.
Dogs are and always have been special cases, they have been involved with humans for so long they are more an extension of our species than a separate one.

Ferrets too,

 

[JimW]

Ferrets too,

Heard that said but no direct experience.
Pet wombats would be good because you could stack their shit neatly in cardboard boxes, then post to Downing Street when full.

 

[IC3D]

Dogs all seem to get cancers and breathing problems due to being fucked about with so much by humans so are pretty useless other than being a needy decorative mutant animal

 

[tonysingh]

I feel like I can weigh in here, given I keep reptiles and arachnids and breed the former.

I'll write a longer reply later as I'm pushed for time right now but for me, it's about being able to replicate the animals environment and lifestyle in the wild but at home. This includes terrain, temperatures, food and range plus other factors. Some of this is piss easy for some reptiles and others, near impossible.

I'll give you a couple examples. I have a Salmon Pink birdeater tarantula, among others. Like almost all tarantulas, they have a very limited range and only ever roam in search of food. If they find a source of insects in the wild they'll dig a burrow and live there for the rest of their lives, happily snacking on cockroaches. Because I can provide everything it needs in the wild but in a domestic setting and assuming its female, I'm looking at 25 years or so lifespan for it as opposed to less in the wild which kind of proves that it does better as a pet.

Now snakes I fucking love but recently a disease swept through mine. There's a species that I love, the Green Anaconda. It gets to a minimum of 18ft and usually way over 20ft with weight and strength to match. It does need room to move around, both to replicate natural behaviour and to regulate body temps. It also needs a body of water to swim in, which basically means a swimming pool. There no way I can replicate any of that, and there's very few private keepers that could hence it being a fucking awful pet.

The reptile and arachnid pet sector used to be like the wild West. Unsuitable pets, like the green anaconda regularly sold, dodgy shops etc. I was offered a western diamondback rattlesnake once, no questions asked! Thankfully it's calmed down now through self policing by decent shops and breeders. The keeping of giant snakes is dying out and those that do are keeping them well. There's more work to be done for sure, but there always will be no matter the pet.

 

[Dr. Furface]

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Cats are crap pets

cats don't really recognise 'pet' as a noun.

multi species household, maybe...

 

[moose]

A friend of mine had a pet lobster for many years - she found it on a beach, minus a cheliped, and took it home. It was a beautiful and fascinating thing, and grew a bit of a new stump where the original had been.

Also, there's a 3 month follow up on Leon

 

[WouldBe]

I'll give you a couple examples. I have a Salmon Pink birdeater tarantula, among others.

Can they manage a whole seagull?

 

[tonysingh]

Can they manage a whole seagull?

A baby one, sure.

 

[moochedit]

Not requiring a cage or tank. Being trainable to not poo indoors. Not likely to eat any babies or small children. Not having 8 legs or 8 eyes. Think that covers the essentials.

 

[pinkmonkey]

I read this book after my dog died - it's a particularly depressing read. Run, Spot, Run

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not requiring a cage or tank. Being trainable to not poo indoors. Not likely to eat any babies or small children. Not having 8 legs or 8 eyes. Think that covers the essentials.

First bit is the important one for me. I'm uneasy about the idea of keeping any animal that would leave given the opportunity.

Doesn't leave that much beyond cats and dogs.

 

[WouldBe]

First bit is the important one for me. I'm uneasy about the idea of keeping any animal that would leave given the opportunity.

Doesn't leave that much beyond cats and dogs.

Would be hard keeping fish without a tank.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I read this book after my dog died - it's a particularly depressing read. Run, Spot, Run

Dogs and cats stay by choice though. When I had a cat he always had a cat flap. He could leave whenever he wanted.

I think domestic dogs and cats can, and often do, live a good, happy life. Point about them being domesticated species is important as well. Poor things have smaller brains than their ancestors. They need us.