What kind of night time economy do you want Brixton to have?

[madolesance]

Sounds like a Daily Mail Headline, Night time economy LOL.

Hey, suck it up, it's London.

'Hey, suck it up, it's London.'

A place where many people live, who don't nessary want to be living in a constant party.

Why should it be considered acceptable for people to be made to feel uncomfortable in their own homes because others feel they have a right too continue with the selfish path in life

 

[friendofdorothy]

It seems an odd thing for a council to actively encourage lots of similar businesses into one small area, which all attract young people from all the place, that will then cause forseeable antisocial behaviour at great financial and social cost to residents in the area.

 

[teuchter]

Have you lived in central Brixton or Clapham?

In my time in central Brixton I saw large increase in late night venues.

I've not lived right in central brixton. I do have a friend who lived off electric avenue for some time 10-15 yrs ago, and it always seemed to be quite noisy there and they certainly had some problems with what they might find in their gateway.

Are there really more "late night" venues? Seems to me the growth has been more in bars and restaurants.

My impression is more that brixton has been losing late night venues. Although thinking about it most of the places that have disappeared during my time in Brixton have tended not to be right in the centre. The Telegraph, George IV, Mango Landing, Mass, The Queen. The Junction. There are others, including the various pubs with "back rooms" that would run events that went on quite late. The Grosvenor, Canterbury Arms. The Plug.

I can also think of various semi-unofficial venues in railway arches and so on, that have disappeared.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I've not lived right in central brixton. I do have a friend who lived off electric avenue for some time 10-15 yrs ago, and it always seemed to be quite noisy there and they certainly had some problems with what they might find in their gateway.

Are there really more "late night" venues? Seems to me the growth has been more in bars and restaurants.

My impression is more that brixton has been losing late night venues. Although thinking about it most of the places that have disappeared during my time in Brixton have tended not to be right in the centre. The Telegraph, George IV, Mango Landing, Mass, The Queen. The Junction. There are others, including the various pubs with "back rooms" that would run events that went on quite late. The Grosvenor, Canterbury Arms. The Plug.

I can also think of various semi-unofficial venues in railway arches and so on, that have disappeared.

About 25 yrs ago I recall walking home down CHL after the last tube (ie midnightish or when ever it was) when people were still drinking in the pubs, and there dealers on the streets, but on the whole it was reasonably quiet out on the street.

What time do all the bars and restraunts close in Brixton now (I don't get out much these days) Why do all these people flock to Brixton from the night tube, where do they all go? is it just the Electric/pow/market house/dog star/414/albert that are 'after hours'? Perhaps there aren't more venues as such - perhaps just that more people are encouraged into a small area around central brixton and quite a lot of 'night time' stuff is just going on in the open/ on the street?

The venues you mention where at least spread out a bit, so if any noise/mess wasn't so concentrated in such a small space. I don't recall huge crowds of people outside making a mess at those venues.

 

[Gramsci]

I've not lived right in central brixton. I do have a friend who lived off electric avenue for some time 10-15 yrs ago, and it always seemed to be quite noisy there and they certainly had some problems with what they might find in their gateway.

Are there really more "late night" venues? Seems to me the growth has been more in bars and restaurants.

My impression is more that brixton has been losing late night venues. Although thinking about it most of the places that have disappeared during my time in Brixton have tended not to be right in the centre. The Telegraph, George IV, Mango Landing, Mass, The Queen. The Junction. There are others, including the various pubs with "back rooms" that would run events that went on quite late. The Grosvenor, Canterbury Arms. The Plug.

I can also think of various semi-unofficial venues in railway arches and so on, that have disappeared.

I've started to read more of the shelved Council report.

On Brixton there were large places like the Fridge on Brixton Hill. But in central Brixton ( the market area)most places were pubs that closed at 11. A few clubs likes 414 had late licenses but by midnight most of Brixton was quiet. Some pubs had lock ins but these were regulars only and caused no problems.

The covered markets opened six days a week. Half day Wednesday and closed Sunday.

I was reading in Brixton Bugle of lady who had lived in Electric Avenue for decades. As she said they lived with the market. As it was open hours I knew. Closed and street cleaned by six or seven.

It was change in licencing laws from central government that brought big change. I think that's what has caused problems in Clapham. From a few night clubs within a few years a lot of pubs were effectively night clubs. Also pubs got upstairs licensed to increase capacity.

The money to be made and increased potential profits for landlords put pressure on existing retail sector.

The idea to have a more liberal licensing was that it would do two things. Stop binge drinking as people wouldn't feel need to get more in due to closing times and give people more choice about getting a coffee, a drink or food. Many in London work shifts and this would be useful.

Brixton is good example of how this vision has failed. Total failure of a social policy.

 

[Gramsci]

I remember quite some time ago at consultation exercise for section of Brixton master plan officer being enthusiastic about mixed use development. Putting housing, shopping and "entertainment" all together on one site. Idea being to "animate" the street at all times. Different uses at different times of day.

I remember saying that I didn't think this would work as Council couldn't manage it. I wasn't trying to be negative just realistic. The senior officer present got most upset. The Council had all the powers to make it work to the benefit of all.

I was right in long term. It's not having a go at Lambeth in particular. Councils simply don't have resources to manage night time economy.

 

[friendofdorothy]

<snip>

The idea to have a more liberal licensing was that it would do two things. Stop binge drinking as people wouldn't feel need to get more in due to closing times and give people more choice about getting a coffee, a drink or food. Many in London work shifts and this would be useful.

Brixton is good example of how this vision has failed. Total failure of a social policy.

Binge drinking seems to be only available to the young and seems have got messier, it terms of mess on the streets anyway. And it seems all late night drinks only come with loud music these days.

Since the change in licensing laws, it seems much more difficult for me and my older herne hill mates to get a late drink. In a typical lock-in in Herne Hill 20 years ago you would get all ages/ all sorts and no trouble, as the lock in was illegal so they didn't like to attract attention.

 

[Gramsci]

Ffs, hang on. I already happily pay rates for all sorts of things in the community and would be prepared to pay more if it was to be spent on social care and not closing libraries - but are you saying it is my resposibility to chip in for hosing down all the extra piss and vomit that all the extra 'night time economy' is causing?

As you say yourself extra levy on bars etc. It shouldn't it be paid for by businesses who are selling things in the day time and by the council tax of everyone.

There is something called a Late Night Levy for places that serve alcohol between midnight and six am.

See here from Tower Hamlets. They are bringing it in beginning of next year.

Late Night Levy

The levy is a discretionary power, which the council has adopted. The purpose of the levy is to assist local authorities and the police to manage and improve the night time economy. The Levy will allow the council to charge a fee to businesses that are licensed to sell/supply alcohol between midnight and 6am (00:00 and 06:00 hours). This charge applies whether these licensed (permitted) hours are used or not.

 

[Ms T]

I would like people to stop pissing in the street as I walk past them.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

I would class 'hard trance' and 'drum and base' as shite myself, fucking nothing more annoying than drum and base when you're trying to kip.

Bit confused here, do you go to nightclubs to sleep?

 

[teuchter]

On Brixton there were large places like the Fridge on Brixton Hill. But in central Brixton ( the market area)most places were pubs that closed at 11. A few clubs likes 414 had late licenses but by midnight most of Brixton was quiet. Some pubs had lock ins but these were regulars only and caused no problems.

"By midnight most of Brixton was quiet"?

Are you serious?

 

[alcopop]

"By midnight most of Brixton was quiet"?

Are you serious?

Nothing was stirring, not even a mouse

 

[friendofdorothy]

"By midnight most of Brixton was quiet"?

Are you serious?

I recall those days - mid week in 80s/90s

 

[Gramsci]

"By midnight most of Brixton was quiet"?

Are you serious?

Yes.

 

[colacubes]

"By midnight most of Brixton was quiet"?

Are you serious?

I lived in Electric Ave mid 2000s until a couple of years ago. The above was certainly true Sunday-Thursday until about the covered market redevelopment in about 2010. Friday/Saturday were a little noisier but not loads back then. Things got much worse from the addition of the market eateries/bars onwards. Pissers, shouters, low level abuse and threats of violence (and actual violence) if you asked people to stop pissing for example when trying to get into your flat.

I’ve not lived there for a couple of years but close mates still do, most of whom lived there longer than me (between 15 and 30 years). And they are all worn down and at the end of their tether tbh. The last 2 years or so things have got much worse.

 

[Gramsci]

I recall those days - mid week in 80s/90s

I remember it being like that. Why I can understand why long standing residents in Electric Avenue have had enough now.

I grew up in docklands of Plymouth. A rough and ready working class area then. Where I lived there was a lot of serious drinking. By 12 drinking and fighting had stopped. Brixton was like this when I first arrived. I liked it.

When I was first living in Brixton the covered markets. Granville and Market Row were closed on Sundays. Sundays were quiet in Brixton. That wasn't that long ago.

 

[Lizzy Mac]

It looks years before people got the hang of going to the Academy.

 

[editor]

About 25 yrs ago I recall walking home down CHL after the last tube (ie midnightish or when ever it was) when people were still drinking in the pubs, and there dealers on the streets, but on the whole it was reasonably quiet out on the street.

What time do all the bars and restraunts close in Brixton now (I don't get out much these days) Why do all these people flock to Brixton from the night tube, where do they all go? is it just the Electric/pow/market house/dog star/414/albert that are 'after hours'? Perhaps there aren't more venues as such - perhaps just that more people are encouraged into a small area around central brixton and quite a lot of 'night time' stuff is just going on in the open/ on the street?

The venues you mention where at least spread out a bit, so if any noise/mess wasn't so concentrated in such a small space. I don't recall huge crowds of people outside making a mess at those venues.

There's been a very noticeable increase in late night venues in Brixton in recent years. Coldharbour Lane is far busier on some weekday nights than it was on weekend nights ten years ago.

 

[editor]

I lived in Electric Ave mid 2000s until a couple of years ago. The above was certainly true Sunday-Thursday until about the covered market redevelopment in about 2010. Friday/Saturday were a little noisier but not loads back then. Things got much worse from the addition of the market eateries/bars onwards. Pissers, shouters, low level abuse and threats of violence (and actual violence) if you asked people to stop pissing for example when trying to get into your flat.

I’ve not lived there for a couple of years but close mates still do, most of whom lived there longer than me (between 15 and 30 years). And they are all worn down and at the end of their tether tbh. The last 2 years or so things have got much worse.

Being on the Boozed-up, Piss-ejecting Highway to Pop Brixton and the Brixton Beach must have increased the noise substantially for people living in Electric Avenue. And it's seven days a week.

 

[lefteri]

Do you want it to be alcohol-led as it has been for many years?

Do you want it to be foodie-led instead?

Do you want it to have less of a night-time economy?

Leading questions, much?

 

[teuchter]

Sounds like the main change is what happens on weekday nights then. I don't think it's true to say central brixton was "quiet by midnight" on weekends at any point in the past 20 years or so, at least. And it seems that more activity in the markets and pop brixton etc has meant that people are using electric avenue as a walking route than has previously been the case at night.

 

[Rushy]

Not exactly a quantitative response but my overwhelming impression had been for a while that it is much busier and more hectic on weekends. I remember there always being plenty of people around but now it seems rammed like a holiday destination. I see it less frequently past 1am than I used to, mind you.

 

[editor]

Two things make it blazingly obvious that Brixton has got a shitload busier at night: the huge numbers of people now using the tube station and the vast array of tourist-luring bars/clubs/restaurants that have sprung up in recent years.

The area around Granville Arcade used to be pretty much silent at night: now it's a bustling zone of foodie-indulgin', booze-swillin', bladder-fillin' Bright Young Things and tourists, and the area around Pope's Road and Station Road- which used to be even quieter - is now a mass of Pop-stuffin', Brixton Beach partin' hordes. Take a stroll up Acre Lane on the weekend and you'll see loud queues of Cla'am types outside Barrio and the Blues Kitchen where there used to be very little going on.

Of course Brixton is bloody busier, louder and more messier than it was a decade ago. And yes, I can remember it being pretty much quiet on some weekends after midnight. Even the lock-ins had to keep the noise down.

 

[Rushy]

As I recall even an old haunt like the Dog Star was only rarely open on more than one floor. Now it seems to be full to the rafters every weekend and has even expanded into the unit next door. It has definitely earned the right to describe itself as "a vibrant 3 storey institution".

 

[Winot]

Brixton still pretty quiet mid-week after midnight, no?

 

[Rushy]

Brixton still pretty quiet mid-week after midnight, no?

Don't ask me. I'm usually bingeing on a box set and in bed by midnight. Either that or too drunk after one pint of something with a trendy ABV to remember.

(Not really the biggest Brixton news but I started Ozark last night. Very exciting!)

 

[organicpanda]

Brixton still pretty quiet mid-week after midnight, no?

depends what you are comparing it to, been living on Coldharbour Lane for the past 20 years our main problem then was junkies in the front yard (pain though they and their needles were, they still left when asked) and the occasional boom box car blaring reggae. Even on Friday and Saturday the only real noise came from the Angel and that stopped by 11 or 12. Nowadays the sound of screaming women, men with megaphone voices and the lovely sound of street karaoke with such classics as Swing Low Sweet Chariot being the 'song' I hear most, this can often go on till 3 any day of the week. Hardly venture into the rest of Brixton these days but 20 - 30 years ago coming home from work or fun after midnight was quiet during the week.

 

[Winot]

^yeah that would piss me off

 

[editor]

depends what you are comparing it to, been living on Coldharbour Lane for the past 20 years our main problem then was junkies in the front yard (pain though they and their needles were, they still left when asked) and the occasional boom box car blaring reggae. Even on Friday and Saturday the only real noise came from the Angel and that stopped by 11 or 12. Nowadays the sound of screaming women, men with megaphone voices and the lovely sound of street karaoke with such classics as Swing Low Sweet Chariot being the 'song' I hear most, this can often go on till 3 any day of the week. Hardly venture into the rest of Brixton these days but 20 - 30 years ago coming home from work or fun after midnight was quiet during the week.

I've been on Coldharbour Lane for even longer and the noise has definitely increased substantially. When the Brixton Beach exit was in Valentia Place there'd be gangs of drunk arseholes shouting at the top of their voices when they closed. I guess the poor sods in Electric Avenue get that unsavoury traffic now that they switched exits.

I can remember when the Albert on a Friday and Saturday night used to be quiet! When I first started doing Offline nights there, I'd know a good two thirds of the people there as most of them had come off this site! It's now unrecognisably packed on weekends.

 

[Gramsci]

Sounds like the main change is what happens on weekday nights then. I don't think it's true to say central brixton was "quiet by midnight" on weekends at any point in the past 20 years or so, at least. And it seems that more activity in the markets and pop brixton etc has meant that people are using electric avenue as a walking route than has previously been the case at night.

So despite never living in central Brixton you know it's not true what I as someone who has first hand experience of living in central Brixton for many years say here?