Wage error and Universal Credit.

[maomao]

My workplace has messed my wages up for two months in a row. Last month I was not paid on time, I went to the office to complain and was then paid wrongly by bank transfer. I complained again and got slightly more than I was expecting and a promise that it would be sorted the next month. My wife is a full time carer and the family has a Universal Credit claim. I wasn't aware that UC had access to my payslips but apparently they do and so they paid us lots of money that we weren't entitled to and started calling me in to the job centre because they thought I was unemployed. After a few phone calls UC were fine and said that any overpayment would be taken out of future payments. We're fine with this and I didn't have to attend the job centre in person in the end.

This week I have been underpaid by two hundred odd quid again and looking at my payslip they have tried to pass off two months money as one month's payment and have triggered a student loan payment of 236 pounds. I am extremely concerned that we will show up as not entitled to UC this month and may miss out on our cost of living supplement. I emailed HR two days ago and received a reply saying they would get back to me ASAP but so far haven't.

I am going to email a complaint to the big boss bit what I'm wondering is to what extent they are liable if we miss the cost of living payment. My wife wants to start a fight with my boss but will let me try and do things in a civilised fashion first.

I am an individual union member (neu) but there is no branch at my workplace.

 

[quimcunx]

My first thought would be to ask your employer to correct your pay file now, not next month, and resubmit the RTI file to HMRC. I'm guessing this is what UC actually see.

Maybe also get a letter from your employer explaining the mistake and what it should be to submit to UC. And contact UC ASAP.

Not sure if these will actually help.

 

[Edie]

I encounter this absolute incompetence with the NHS continuously. It doesn’t interact with UC (which sounds like doubling the nightmare) but is very stressful for tax/pension etc. Good luck getting it sorted. My union is absolutely fucking useless. They opened a joint case for about 30 of us in the same boat (all being underpaid incorrectly) at the end of last year. Despite paying my £40 a month they’ve seemingly done fuck all and the problem continues.

 

[Elpenor]

My first thought would be to ask your employer to correct your pay file now, not next month, and resubmit the RTI file to HMRC. I'm guessing this is what UC actually see.

Maybe also get a letter from your employer explaining the mistake and what it should be to submit to UC. And contact UC ASAP.

Not sure if these will actually help.

Agree 100% with this. The letter is a good idea. Ask your employer to confirm what date your pay day should have been on the letter.

The RTI file (FPS) is what DWP will be seeing. They can definitely do this now and not next month

 

[Pickman's model]

My workplace has messed my wages up for two months in a row. Last month I was not paid on time, I went to the office to complain and was then paid wrongly by bank transfer. I complained again and got slightly more than I was expecting and a promise that it would be sorted the next month. My wife is a full time carer and the family has a Universal Credit claim. I wasn't aware that UC had access to my payslips but apparently they do and so they paid us lots of money that we weren't entitled to and started calling me in to the job centre because they thought I was unemployed. After a few phone calls UC were fine and said that any overpayment would be taken out of future payments. We're fine with this and I didn't have to attend the job centre in person in the end.

This week I have been underpaid by two hundred odd quid again and looking at my payslip they have tried to pass off two months money as one month's payment and have triggered a student loan payment of 236 pounds. I am extremely concerned that we will show up as not entitled to UC this month and may miss out on our cost of living supplement. I emailed HR two days ago and received a reply saying they would get back to me ASAP but so far haven't.

I am going to email a complaint to the big boss bit what I'm wondering is to what extent they are liable if we miss the cost of living payment. My wife wants to start a fight with my boss but will let me try and do things in a civilised fashion first.

I am an individual union member (neu) but there is no branch at my workplace.

did you get the promise about things being sorted out in writing? because it seems to me that perhaps having all the paperwork to hand to the uc people, to show your employer's cocking you about, might help resolve the situation. if all they see is the figures and not access to the further information they'd need then there's a greater chance, i think, of them fucking up your uc & col payment

 

[Pickman's model]

I encounter this absolute incompetence with the NHS continuously. It doesn’t interact with UC (which sounds like doubling the nightmare) but is very stressful for tax/pension etc. Good luck getting it sorted. My union is absolutely fucking useless. They opened a joint case for about 30 of us in the same boat (all being underpaid incorrectly) at the end of last year. Despite paying my £40 a month they’ve seemingly done fuck all and the problem continues.

where i used to work i was very slightly underpaid for years and only noticed it about four years into the job - i worked 12h40m a week and hr thought the 40 was 0.40 of an hour so paid me for 12h24m. took bloody ages, about six months, to sort that out, they were remarkably resistant to reason and it was only when i threatened a grievance that they suddenly worked it out, got several hundred pounds in back wages for all those quarters of an hour. so it's possible that there has been some toing and froing with your union, but you ought to chase up your rep to get to the bottom of this.

 

[maomao]

did you get the promise about things being sorted out in writing? because it seems to me that perhaps having all the paperwork to hand to the uc people, to show your employer's cocking you about, might help resolve the situation. if all they see is the figures and not access to the further information they'd need then there's a greater chance, i think, of them fucking up your uc & col payment

Nope. I have an apology and an admission a mistake was made but I didn't expect to be messed up two months in a row. I've had a lot of different employers and even the most chaotic seemed to understand you have to pay people on time.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nope. I have an apology and an admission a mistake was made but I didn't expect to be messed up two months in a row. I've had a lot of different employers and even the most chaotic seemed to understand you have to pay people on time.

it's really shit. in the absence of union reps on site, i'd contact the neu main office and get information about how to get legal advice through the union - maybe the neu use thompsons, certainly some other unions do. i don't know how quickly you'd be able to have a free appointment, likely a phone call, with a solicitor but that seems to me a good way for you to start off. you might also need to contact uc and talk them through the payslip (followed up by an email to confirm any conversation) so they understand your predicament and might actually be human for once. good luck anyway

 

[maomao]

The RTI file (FPS) is what DWP will be seeing. They can definitely do this now and not next month

The company use an outsourcing company for payroll and are trying to pin the whole thing on on them. Wich seems ridiculous, it can only be their fault for giving the payroll people the wrong information right? If the payroll company had fucked the wages (and it's not just mine btw) then I assume they'd be entitled to ask for it to be rectified immediately.

 

[Elpenor]

The company use an outsourcing company for payroll and are trying to pin the whole thing on on them. Wich seems ridiculous, it can only be their fault for giving the payroll people the wrong information right? If the payroll company had fucked the wages (and it's not just mine btw) then I assume they'd be entitled to ask for it to be rectified immediately.

Sounds like the usual shit involved with outsourcing.

 

[maomao]

Sounds like the usual shit involved with outsourcing.

What is the usual shit? I have t worked for anyone that ran their own payroll in a very long time. They just work from the information they're given surely?

 

[Edie]

where i used to work i was very slightly underpaid for years and only noticed it about four years into the job - i worked 12h40m a week and hr thought the 40 was 0.40 of an hour so paid me for 12h24m. took bloody ages, about six months, to sort that out, they were remarkably resistant to reason and it was only when i threatened a grievance that they suddenly worked it out, got several hundred pounds in back wages for all those quarters of an hour. so it's possible that there has been some toing and froing with your union, but you ought to chase up your rep to get to the bottom of this.

Win for you!

I literally don’t have the energy to chase it. I don’t have a fucking clue how I’m paid it’s so crazy complicated, it was just very clearly less than it should be by about a grand for nearly 6 months. Because they never (in the 15 months I worked for them) gave me a work schedule with my contracted hours, expected overtime, and example rota, because their HR didn’t know what they were doing outside Agenda for Change, no one inc me had the faintest idea what my wage should have been.

It’s a complete dog’s breakfast and goes back years affecting many people, so I thought it’d be easier to join a union and have them fix it. But they’re seemingly crap and are now trying to get everyone to strike which I don’t think I agree with. So yeah

 

[Pickman's model]

Win for you!

I literally don’t have the energy to chase it. I don’t have a fucking clue how I’m paid it’s so crazy complicated, it was just very clearly less than it should be by about a grand for nearly 6 months. Because they never (in the 15 months I worked for them) gave me a work schedule with my contracted hours, expected overtime, and example rota, because their HR didn’t know what they were doing outside Agenda for Change, no one inc me had the faintest idea what my wage should have been.

It’s a complete dog’s breakfast and goes back years affecting many people, so I thought it’d be easier to join a union and have them fix it. But they’re seemingly crap and are now trying to get everyone to strike which I don’t think I agree with. So yeah

Perhaps

Hi

I haven't heard from you for a while and I'd be grateful if you could give me an update about what's going on with the underpayment of my wages, which is ongoing and causing me stress. I realise the situation's very complicated, in part because of the number of people it affects and that I've never been given a work schedule covering my contracted hours, overtime and so on. It's possible HR don't understand it either, which I imagine makes moving forward on this rather difficult. In the light of the possible strikes it would be a great help to me to know that I'm going to receive money I'm owed, and the sooner the better. So if you could tell me what has been going on with the case it'd be very useful and I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for the work you've done on this case.

Best wishes

Edie

 

[moochedit]

My employer uses outsourced payroll and i've had cock ups before. They've always paid the wages to my bank account on the correct date to be fair but they often "forget" to pay into my pension despite the deduction appearing on the wage slip. I know this as i can view the pension online and then i have to chase my boss to chase them to sort it out (they won't speak to me directly). They also "forgot" my union subs once as well and had to pay double the next month. Also they once changed the website that i downloaded my wages slips from without telling me or my boss so i thought i wasn't getting any wage slips until i found out i had to go to a completly different website (the outsourcer had itself outsourced the website!). I think outsourcing became more commen after the "rti" stuff started.

 

[StoneRoad]

Hope everyone gets their wages sorted.

Having payroll outsourced can be a good thing, provided they get the right information.
But very commonly & unfortunately, GIGO occurs and untangling the resulting chaos is a nightmare.
Sometimes the payroll agency are just incompetent idiots, it is rarely malicious.
Sadly, the HMRC programme can have pitfalls and glitches !

 

[moochedit]

In my case i don't think the issue is my employer sending wrong info to the outsourcer as wage slips correct. The cock ups are by the outsourcer although my employer choose them Anyway no current issues but only a matter of time

 

[maomao]

I emailed HR this morning according to some of the advice on this thread, cc'ing the head. The head has now answered and says he is escalating it to the regional finance director. Not sure how comforting that is. I feel like looking for a new job tbh, they're taking the piss with workload anyway.

 

[Elpenor]

What is the usual shit? I have t worked for anyone that ran their own payroll in a very long time. They just work from the information they're given surely?

The error happened, well errors certainly happen in-house too. But I firmly believe outsourced payroll teams don’t care (for want of a better word) as much as they’re a step removed from the customer - you.

But what should have happened to correct things (a supplementary pay run recording the actual pay you were due and this data being passed to HMRC and then onto universal credit) is very probably outside of the SLA and hence would be chargeable. So I’d expect they didn’t bother to do that and just did the half arsed attempt to fix it this month.

So I suspect there was an element of buck passing, and not thinking through the full implications, taking the easy solution not the right one.

 

[Edie]

Perhaps

Hi

I haven't heard from you for a while and I'd be grateful if you could give me an update about what's going on with the underpayment of my wages, which is ongoing and causing me stress. I realise the situation's very complicated, in part because of the number of people it affects and that I've never been given a work schedule covering my contracted hours, overtime and so on. It's possible HR don't understand it either, which I imagine makes moving forward on this rather difficult. In the light of the possible strikes it would be a great help to me to know that I'm going to receive money I'm owed, and the sooner the better. So if you could tell me what has been going on with the case it'd be very useful and I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for the work you've done on this case.

Best wishes

Edie

Thank you Pickmans

 

[Sue]

Thank you Pickmans

I think Pickman's model could have a sideline in writing correspondence for those of us who can't be arsed.

 

[cesare]

I think Pickman's model could have a sideline in writing correspondence for those of us who can't be arsed.

He's a very helpful wordsmith.

 

[Edie]

I think Pickman's model could have a sideline in writing correspondence for those of us who can't be arsed.

Definitely has a better turn of phrase than me

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I emailed HR this morning according to some of the advice on this thread, cc'ing the head. The head has now answered and says he is escalating it to the regional finance director. Not sure how comforting that is. I feel like looking for a new job tbh, they're taking the piss with workload anyway.

I might be hopefull but it being escalated sounds like a good thing, it is now with someone who doesn't want to deal with those "details" and they more than likely have a direct line to the outsourced company higher ups to say "fix that mess up now"
hope it works out OK

 

[Elpenor]

I might be hopefull but it being escalated sounds like a good thing, it is now with someone who doesn't want to deal with those "details" and they more than likely have a direct line to the outsourced company higher ups to say "fix that mess up now"
hope it works out OK

Agree that an FD is likely to be higher up the engagement model and likely the relationship owner with the outsourcer. Hopefully they put some pressure on

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Agree that an FD is likely to be higher up the engagement model and likely the relationship owner with the outsourcer. Hopefully they put some pressure on

in an unrelated tidbit: it worked for my lift which after being broken for 4 weeks was fixed the day after it was raised to a complaint higher up the chain of command in the housing association.

 

[maomao]

Well after CCing the big boss and getting a reply from him I got a four paragraph email from HR where she apologises profusely while insisting it was all the payroll co's fault. She will pay the missing money by bank transfer tomorrow. She is happy to provide a letter for the UC confirming role and wage. She apologises for the lack of contract for my position starting in September while blaming a member of staff who left in June. I take it by its omission she is refusing to update the RTI file. On its own it's not a big deal. One person at UC told me that lots of new jobs take a few months to straighten out and it will be worked out in the end. But if we don't get our col payment my wife will probably burn the school down. What I'm wondering is how liable they would be for any loss of benefits incurred as a result of their shoddy accountancy.

 

[maomao]

They've now paid me a completely random amount of money (142 when I thought we had agreed I was 236 short) and this is starting to do my head in. I will be submitting a couple of job applications this weekend.

 

[Elpenor]

Sorry to hear that this is still causing issues.

Were you short £236 gross or net?

£142 is approx 60% of £236 so I wonder if they’ve made a rough net calculation to take account for tax NI and pension withholdings?

I would have expected some sort of communication to explain what they’ve done and why, hopefully that is on its way

 

[maomao]

Sorry to hear that this is still causing issues.

Were you short £236 gross or net?

£142 is approx 60% of £236 so I wonder if they’ve made a rough net calculation to take account for tax NI and pension withholdings?

I would have expected some sort of communication to explain what they’ve done and why, hopefully that is on its way

If student loan payments are pre tax that would make sense. Thanks.

They can still fuck off though.

 

[Elpenor]

If student loan payments are pre tax that would make sense. Thanks.

They can still fuck off though.

Yes they are.