US celeb Hilary Duff attacks photographer online for taking photos at football game
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
You don't agree? You think it's perfectly OK for a complete stranger to be taking pictures of other people's children (without permission)?
editor
hiraethified
Just because children are included in an image it does make not automatically make the photographer a 'nonce' by any measure. It's about context. I do not believe in a blanket ban. But feel free to go up to any photographer you see who happens to be taking a picture that includes children and call them a nonce.
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
It’s a spectator sport in a public place. Presumably in full view of other adults. Not exactly a lone guy hanging out in a playground taking pictures of kids.
And while I wouldn’t be so naive to think this didn’t have the potential to kick off at some point with an over zealous parent, I do think Duff shoving it up on instagram for millions to pile in on, is not on. Especially given he offered to show his ID.
And while I wouldn’t be so naive to think this didn’t have the potential to kick off at some point with an over zealous parent, I do think Duff shoving it up on instagram for millions to pile in on, is not on. Especially given he offered to show his ID.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
You seem to be confusing the word noncey with the word nonce.
editor
hiraethified
Grow the fuck up.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I don't know about this guy and this particular case, but a blanket statement "you should never take pictures of kids without express permission" is absurd. I very rarely take pictures of kids, apart from my niece - I don't want to make them embarrassed or uncomfortable but mostly they rarely do anything interesting anyway and if they do tends to be a cliché (once you've seen one "kid riding on parent's shoulders at a protest" or "kid carrying a sweary sign at a protest" picture you've seen them all). But, say, the recent Climate Strikes, which are actually carried out by kids - I've taken a fair few pictures of those and never had "permission" and if anyone told me I did I'd laugh at them but they'd probably be serious. I've shot various carnivals with children in parades. Children are often in the background incidentally when I do street photography too.
One time I can remember deliberately taking pictures of children was at a street festival a few years ago. I was wandering around, taking a few pictures of stalls and displays and street performers and the usual sort of stuff you see there. A local school that was doing some sort of thing, with kids dressed up doing a cute dance, and I took a few snaps of that and could feel a couple of people giving me the evil. I mean what? Literally a public performance.
One time I can remember deliberately taking pictures of children was at a street festival a few years ago. I was wandering around, taking a few pictures of stalls and displays and street performers and the usual sort of stuff you see there. A local school that was doing some sort of thing, with kids dressed up doing a cute dance, and I took a few snaps of that and could feel a couple of people giving me the evil. I mean what? Literally a public performance.
Last edited:
RoyReed
Must fly!
I'm a landscape and architectural photographer. Most of the time I'm waiting for people to get out of the way so that I can take photos without any people in them - children or adults. But at the kite festival that I helped organise for several years I've photographed hundreds of kids flying kites. I've never asked permission beforehand, because if you do that the moment's gone. No one has ever objected, but according to you that makes me 'noncey'. Twat!
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Last night I was out with my friend H, whose partner tried to kill her and isn't allowed near her or the kids. He doesn't even know which city they live in. My daughter's friend is also in a family where the dad isn't allowed contact because he's tried to kill his wife with a screwdriver during one of his many coke binges. There's quite a lot resting on those children never being in a photo which is made public. Indeed at school plays you can never do this, you're not allowed. I think if you're asked not to do this, you should respect that.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
There's a bit of a difference between someone organising a festival and taking photos of it, and a complete stranger rocking up at a children's football game and taking photographs of other people's kids.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
There are always going to be issues where someone might not want to be in a photo, and I'm a big proponent of photographers being sensible and respectful when doing public photography (some "street photographers" are right shits, and there's an industry that encourages that, though that's a different issue) but that is not the same as saying that taking any photos of children means you're probably a paedo and should be shunned and arrested.
RoyReed
Must fly!
Not according to what you said before.
editor
hiraethified
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I was talking about complete strangers, you know, in response to a thread about a complete stranger taking pictures of kids at a football game. Or has the topic of the thread suddenly changed?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
"Complete strangers should (not) be taking photos of other people's children without express permission. It may not be illegal but it's noncey as fuck" is just as ridiculous a statement.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
In your opinion.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I know that in some events photography is expected and parents can buy photos of their kids.
There is a rowing regatta not far from me which I have photographed after a fashion, and there is a team of photographers who make it their business to get sharp in focus shots showing the faces of every participant which involves thousands of pictures which are all uploaded to the net where those interested, anyone interested, can buy a photo or three.
The participants are not 7 years olds, they are more like 12 - 18 probably. But it is a similar argument.
There is a rowing regatta not far from me which I have photographed after a fashion, and there is a team of photographers who make it their business to get sharp in focus shots showing the faces of every participant which involves thousands of pictures which are all uploaded to the net where those interested, anyone interested, can buy a photo or three.
The participants are not 7 years olds, they are more like 12 - 18 probably. But it is a similar argument.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I can back up my opinion with numerous examples of where that patently isn't the case - in fact I have done, and I can do more if you like. Unless you'd like to try to tell me that my examples were bad somehow.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Some children to whom I am a complete stranger.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
After looking at the video, that's a fairly serious setup. It wouldn't surprise me if he was a pap. But the point has gone beyond that now tbh.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
People at a demo are there to be seen, though. And they're all older than seven - all look like teenagers to me. I think it's a bit different from photographing a football match with young children without permission.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
So sometimes it is okay to photograph children to whom you are strangers, but sometimes not, as opposed to it always meaning you are "noncey as fuck" like some idiots are saying.
What about if they're at a carnival btw? What if they just happen to be there in the frame? What if you think that actually that's a really nice shot that says something about childhood, the development of humans in society, whatever?
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
There's a slight difference between 7 year old children at a private football game and teenagers at a protest who are there to be photographed.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
"Oh I think I'll make a massive indiscriminate statement then just backtrack on it selectively for all counter-examples"
I mean there are two ways to go here. You could say "ok fair enough that was too general, what I mean is... XYZ". That would be fair enough. Or you could double down.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Part of the problem here is with language, I think. Teenagers and seven-year-olds may both be 'children' in some sense, but the former are in reality in a process towards becoming adult (and in the pics above are very much asserting their autonomy of action and thought), while the latter are not. So legally, this may not be the case, but morally, I think the age of the children matters.
To your second para, I can see the point in it but at the same time, I'm uneasy about photographers poking their lenses at groups of young children. Personally I hate being photographed in public places. This is not really to do with potential noncery, more to do with privacy and the fact that modern technology and social media mean your face can instantly be plastered across the world. That changes the meaning of being photographed quite considerably. More than once I've been pissed off with friends posting pics of me on social media without asking - maybe I didn't want the world to know I was there at that particular time, but it appears I'm in a minority in caring about such things. Whether children or not, I think it's polite to ask where it's possible to ask, and it is possible to ask at a football match.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Or I could be recognising the difference between vulnerable children and teenagers acting as adults.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I was trying to give you a socially acceptable way out from an absurdly overgeneralised statement, where you could back down from something indefensible without losing face, but you don't want to take it. OK, sure.
RoyReed
Must fly!
What about 7 year olds at a kite festival?
