Unwarrented Censorship

[fela fan]

Ian, your Yeovil/Milan thread was ridiculous and bizarre. It was designed in such a way as to show the speaker as being a conspiracy theorist, and assumed the reader was on your side from the beginning. How are you meant to convince people of your beliefs/ideas by posting up such curious gibberish?

You're just talking about your own interpretation and reaction to what you read.

You should not confuse that with other people's reactions, which, incredibly one might say, may be not in concordance with your own.

 

[fela fan]

ian, having read the rest of this thread mate, you can see that debate is not wanted at all if the topic is not to the liking of the regulars.

They will deny this, but that's why they use these weird 'conspiraloon' type words, just to deride those who entertain the wrong kind of thinking for this web site.

It's british method through and through. They proclaim freedom of speech, but they forgot about the need for freedom to think to precede this.

And on this website, just like mainstream media, if you do think not according to within established parameters, then be off with you, you horrible conspiraloid.

Amazing how 'free' people will shout down anyone who actually dares to be free...

 

[Badger Kitten]

This person, Ian R Crane is from the ''British 9/11 Truth Movement'', who beleive that there is a huge conspiracy and coverup regarding 9/11. From here they leap to the idea that there is a huge conspiracy regarding 7/7.

Here is their site ( reluctant as I am to give them the traffic. They have recently tried to raise their profile by attacking me.)

I have been lambasted and pestered by them on my blog, and slagged off all over their website, here they are discussing whether I am a team of M15 agents sent to discredit their important truth mission with my bothersome survivor story that surprisingly gets more attention than their oddball fact free insistence that 7/7 was a 'false flag psy-ops/black ops'.

The key basis for this claim is the issue of whether the 7/7 bombers caught a particular train or not. They are obsessed with this. Prole, another poster on u75 has also been on this site, restricting all posts to 7/7 and this ''no suicide bombs'' theory..

Not content with pestering me on my blog and attacking me on various sites I frequent, they have now moved on to hijacking and heckling the book tour of Milan Rai, a peace activist who has written a very good book about 7/7 and the Iraq war. 16 of them turned up to heckle and disrupt the launch in London where Milan and I were on a panel taking questions with a left wing historian and an Iraqi Professor.

They have followed the pattern of disrupting the book tour all over the UK, presumably as a means of raising their profile and trying to recruit more ''converts''. They are evangelical about it, and very like religious fundementalists IMO. I have found them to be paranoid and unreasonable and aggressive: cyber bullies. I've had to kick them off my blog.

Good work gents, I hope the London crew put this piece of shit straight about things, seems to be 'willfully' ignorant like team rachil.
I beg those in London to hijack this fool's meeting and use it to disseminate what we know

...with sinking hearts, we realised that not only did was he talking from a very limited perspective indeed, but that he believed the media and official story!

Oh dear! Adrian was the first to interrupt with salient comments re 7/7 and 9/11 and this was met with no response from Milan, apart from a polite, yet firm request to refrain from speaking and that he would deal with the issues raised later on in the evening.

Milan's voice droned on and on and I found myself losing interest and wishing he would liven things up. This happened, but not in the way which I expected as Justin could not contain himself and he began to interject with increasing intensity - ignoring Milan's irritated requests to wait until it was his turn to speak. This turned into requests for Justin not to speak at all and that he would deal with all the issues he raised later on in the evening.

Mmmmm! The atmosphere was distinctly changing to one of the audience wanting to listen to Milan and not Justin and the organiser's partner who was sitting near me as I was on the end of the row, glared and asked in a despairing tone, "Why are you doing this?"

A few questions were asked by a couple of other members of the audience, but our group spoke the most and I bet Milan Rai wished we weren't there!! One question I asked was in connection with the altered photo of the alleged 4 'bombers' in the train station, which had obviously been digitally manipulated...(snip)

London 9/11 Truth seekers who will be attending Milan's meeting tonight - you must make sure he is not allowed to get away with his rubbish. He is a gatekeeper. He is either extremely stupid and naive or he is working to another agenda and for someone else. Likewise with Rachel.

I am pleased to say that we were accused by the organisers of wrecking their meeting - that is we heckled him everytime he made an outrageous remark or dismissed something which was of paramount importance. His tactics of stonewalling were straight out of Rachel's modus operandi. After Sinclair's opening detailed and excellent question about 7/7, I asked simply did he believe the official accounts of 7/7 and 9/11. He said he wouldn't answer those questions now but later on. We waited and waited and waited. His detailed diatribe that Blair attacking Iraq was the real reason why four young Muslims blew themselves up was unbelievably boring to listen to. He ignored totally Penny's question about the infamous doctored photograph of the 'bombers' at the station.

In the end, after a lot of 'improvements' by us to his presentation, he was cornered to reply to my question about 9/11 which he dismissed in one sentence by saying there was nothing at all that he could see that caused him to doubt the official story. Needless to say we let rip....

Engaging with them is what they want, as I have discovered. IMO they do not deserve the oxygen of publicity, as their MO is to harrass survivors and peace activists in order to posit a bizarre theory that there were no suicide bombs.

Therefore, I think telling this poster is a troll with an agenda...

 

[Badger Kitten]

Oh, and his original post is pure cut and paste spam from other forums...

 

[Donna Ferentes]

They are evangelical about it, and very like religious fundamentalists IMO.

This reminds me: could I beg that the binned thread "Conspiralons" be shifted back to here and locked, rather than eventually deleted? I ask because (if I have the right thread) some of the observations by Bernie Gunther about the similarities between Conspiracy Theory and religious behaviour were genuinely insightful and I would not like to see them lost.

I have found them to be paranoid and unreasonable and aggressive: cyber bullies.

Now there's a surprise.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Ian R Crane via google...

Ian has spent many years researching Comparative Mythology, Spirituality and Changes in Individual and Collective Consciousness (The Awakening Process). Ian's research focused initially on the spiritual and esoteric teachings of ancient Egypt but the scope of his research expanded dramatically when a planned four-week trip to Central America turned into an intense seven-month investigation of Mayan spirituality and cosmology in Guatemala , Honduras and Belize .

Ian has more recently, turned his attentions to studying the geopolitical webs that have been spun since the events of 9/11; with particular focus on US hegemony and the US agenda for control of global oil & gas resources. A few weeks after the events of 7/7, Ian's research has already indicated that the official version of the supposed ‘Terror' attacks in London , “ …..cannot stand up to the scrutiny of research …..”
As events continue to unfold, Ian does not offer specific answers but he does raise some very important questions.

Prior to ‘escaping' from his what Ian describes as his ‘ total immersion' in the material world, he enjoyed a career of 25 years in telecommu nic ations and international oilfield services. A career that provided the opportunity to live and work in the U.K. , Continental Europe, the Middle East and the USA .

How fascinating.

 

[laptop]

I feel desperately sorry for his family.

In the thing I quoted earlier he discusses avoiding a medical diagnosis.

It's time to stop avoiding it.

 

[Badger Kitten]

There are many cases of people with similar experiences who have also considered the possibility of being paranoid. A visit to an orthodox psychiatrist or psychoanalyst for ‘help’ has often resulted in a period of drug-induced evaluation, courtesy of the local psychiatric unit. Having been ‘diagnosed’ as, “ ……fit but with very interesting ideas”; suggests that you were either fortunate enough to have subjected yourself to the wisdom of an enlightened therapist or to someone who had known you prior to the onset of the changes in your perception.

Oh dear.

Oh dearie dear. This is the Chairman of the British 9/11 ''Truth'' Movement.

 

[Badger Kitten]

It is like watching a nervous breakdown/onset of quite severe mental illness in slow motion. It's the Paranoid Personality Disorder Club. Christ, I really do not want anything more to do with them. I have tried to engage in the past: having found out more about them, think that was a huge mistake. They won't let go.

Fruitbats. And not in a good way. Am a bit disturbed by it all.

 

[toggle]

I'm very pleased to meet you BK. I don't think I've ever chatted with a disinformation team from the security services before.

 

[editor]

Perhaps you would care to explain exactly which aspects of my earlier post failed to meet with your exacting standards of objectivity?

You could start by reading the FAQ.

Please read the boards for a while before posting: that way you won't repeat questions/threads that have already been asked. Use the 'search' function to see if your topic has already been discussed.

And....

Do not post up huge reams of cut and paste text,

And then you could move on to:

If a post or thread disappears, DO NOT start a thread asking why - PM a moderator or post up a polite request for information in the feedback forum (and nowhere else) instead.

So why do you arrogantly think the rules don't apply to you, Ian?

Right, I'm off to have a cup of tea and check the Changes in My Individual and Collective Consciousness (The Awakening Process).

 

[editor]

Unfortunately ian the (quality) level of debate on these politica forums is a fraction of what it used to be.

and that's nothing to do with you, of course.

x off the fucking scale.

 

[tangentlama]

This reminds me: could I beg that the binned thread "Conspiralons" be shifted back to here and locked, rather than eventually deleted? I ask because (if I have the right thread) some of the observations by Bernie Gunther about the similarities between Conspiracy Theory and religious behaviour were genuinely insightful and I would not like to see them lost. Now there's a surprise.

I second that.

 

[Badger Kitten]

I'm very pleased to meet you BK. I don't think I've ever chatted with a disinformation team from the security services before.

Thanks. My lizard handlers say hello.

 

[editor]

This reminds me: could I beg that the binned thread "Conspiralons" be shifted back to here and locked, rather than eventually deleted?

Give us the URL and I'll sort it!

 

[Badger Kitten]

Imagine my surprise when I found out about a bizarre conspiracy theory that the world was going to end in 2012. An Ancient Mayan prophecy confirms this. As we approach the struggle for higher or possibly alien consciousness the New World Order is expected to increase its struggles for totalitarian mind cointrol, by use of synthetic terror events such as 9/11 and 7/7. Evil psy-ops agents like me will of course struggle to crush fearless truth seekers by peddling our lies dressed up as survivor accounts. Crop circles and astrological portents, of course, have made this clear for years, the approach of the superstorm and erm,. other things I haven't grasped yet, due to my deficiency in shamanic wisdom.

Anyway, cheers Ian R Crane for letting me in on all this via Dia Gnosis


Corking stuff.

Sample...

Every time the comets come, the Annunaki arrive just beforehand, to feed on the soul energy created by fear. Right behind the comet cluster is a "Realm Border Wave" which returns every 309,000 years, (12 precessional cycles) and will merge this "3rd density" with the next one up - the 4th density, by 2012...

 

[tangentlama]

Give us the URL and I'll sort it!

Great, then perhaps Bernie Gunther's observations could be added permanently to: http://www.urban75.org/info/conspiraloons.html ?

 

[Grego Morales]

You're just talking about your own interpretation and reaction to what you read.

You should not confuse that with other people's reactions, which, incredibly one might say, may be not in concordance with your own.

What a load of shit. The thread was utter tripe, the end.

 

[The Pious Pawn]

Ive never thought 7/7 was set up by the british goverment not in this country never . a few things about 9/11 i will admit i found dodgy but iam not skilled enough in the fields to how things work ! the way the towers fell reminded me of when you see buildings knocked down useing explosives and there was no wreckage of aeroplanes at the pentagon which i found strange .

 

[editor]

the way the towers fell reminded me of when you see buildings knocked down useing explosives and there was no wreckage of aeroplanes at the pentagon which i found strange .

I can't say how depressing it is when people lazily trot out clueless nonsense like this without even bothering to do any research at all. If you're remotely interested, you'll find the answers to both your claims on these very boards.

I guess this lazy, 'heard it on the internet' nonsense is how conspiraloons' theories take hold. Someone posts up a load of old cobblers, people uncritically repeat it and before you know it, it's seen as some sort of 'fact' to be repeated elsewhere.

Poor show, pawn.

 

[The Pious Pawn]

I can't say how depressing it is when people lazily trot out clueless nonsense like this without even bothering to do any research at all. If you're remotely interested, you'll find the answers to both your claims on these very boards.

I guess this lazy, 'heard it on the internet' nonsense is how conspiraloons' theories take hold. Someone posts up a load of old cobblers, people uncritically repeat it and before you know it, it's seen as some sort of 'fact' to be repeated elsewhere.

Poor show, pawn.

Poor show ??

just 2 things i never thought looked right ! iam not that bothered to go looking for answers because like you have said there will most likely be a answer to the 2 things ive mentioned .

 

[detective-boy]

In fact what we see now is not much more than the debate of the posters, rather than what's in the posts. Furthermore, the topics of 911 and more recently 7/7, are in effect non-topics.

Just like in the mainstream media.

And what the fuck has been learned? Nothing?

Has anyone thought - "Hang on a minute, we keep raising reallly important things here and after a little while everyone ignores us / the story. Wonder why that is?"?

No. Well I'll give you all a clue. If you raise something and then just keep on and on and on and on and on, spouting the same old thing (usually a question-based theory like "How could they possibly have got to Kings Cross on that train?" or "How could WTC7 fall down on it's own?" rather than some demonstrable alternative fact) then people WILL get bored and pissed off and will go and do something else instead.

If (and it is a bloody big "If") those who are concerned about these issues actually engaged with alternative suggestions / research / etc. and developed their themes then the discussion would move on. Either to the point where the original suspicions and concerns were confirmed or added to (in which case the chorus of voices demanding more official information and answers would grow ever louder) or to the point where they were disproven or diminished (in which case the chorus of voices would shrink).

It seems the vast majority of conspiracy theorists have little or no actual EVIDENCE for their alternative theories (I have repeatedly asked for sources which show that the official version of events has the actual, real train running times on 7 JUly definitively proven as alleged but nothing has been forthcoming (which raises laptops point about the existence of Midland Mainline - you do not need to be Sherlock fucking Holmes to work out that a train which the timetable says arrives at 7.48 or whatever is unlikely in the extreme to actually arrive at exactly 7.48 on any particular day).

They also NEVER acknowledge anything (such as the independent research carried out by another poster with a stopwatch) as undermining their point at all.

They just keep raving on and on and on and on and on ...

Why are you surprised that each new, entirely repetitive thread gets instantly binned? Please:

(A) Go somewhere else where you can rant on to your hearts desire;
(B) Try to engage in debate and learn to accept other evidence which may undermine your claims; or
(C) Get a life

Edited to add:

I can't say how depressing it is when people lazily trot out clueless nonsense like this without even bothering to do any research at all. If you're remotely interested, you'll find the answers to both your claims on these very boards.

I guess this lazy, 'heard it on the internet' nonsense is how conspiraloons' theories take hold. Someone posts up a load of old cobblers, people uncritically repeat it and before you know it, it's seen as some sort of 'fact' to be repeated elsewhere.

Precisely.

 

[editor]

iam not that bothered to go looking for answers ....

'Nuff said...

 

[detective-boy]

Fruitbats. And not in a good way. Am a bit disturbed by it all.

The disturbing thing about it for me is that every time they raise their "issues", someone else (from the vast majority of the public who have never given much if any thought to the issues, other than what they have read in the Sun, Mail, etc) things "Hang on a minute, that doesn't sound right" and the conspiracy theory gains a little more momentum. Especially when that new recruit starts raising the issue (at places like U75) only to be dismissed out of hand because (unbeknown to them) it is the 3,245th time it has been raised and everyone is bored / has better things to do than go over it all again.

If they want to live their deluded lives then that is fine by me. It is when they engage others that I find it disturbing.

 

[pk]

Unfortunately ian the (quality) level of debate on these politica forums is a fraction of what it used to be. It really is quite sad...

Some advice:

If you don't like it, why not just try fucking off?

 

[Badger Kitten]

The disturbing thing about it for me is that every time they raise their "issues", someone else (from the vast majority of the public who have never given much if any thought to the issues, other than what they have read in the Sun, Mail, etc) things "Hang on a minute, that doesn't sound right" and the conspiracy theory gains a little more momentum. Especially when that new recruit starts raising the issue (at places like U75) only to be dismissed out of hand because (unbeknown to them) it is the 3,245th time it has been raised and everyone is bored / has better things to do than go over it all again.

If they want to live their deluded lives then that is fine by me. It is when they engage others that I find it disturbing.

Well, having looked up Mr Ian R Crane and familairised himself with what he believes I am quite concerned...

This is a mission for him; a kind of whacko religion. The world will end in 2012, the New World Order rises, 7/7 and 9/11 are false flags to spread terror, armageddon is nigh, BK is an evil agent of the New World Order, a COINTELPRO blah blah. So far so batshit but I'm sorry to say members of the 'British 9/11 Truth Forum'' organisation of which he is Chair have found out my real name, written and called my family, found out my work address full name and phone number...They have tuened up to a Milan Lai's book launch at which I was a panellist and heckled me..

they are seriously wierd.

...so can we all keep an eye out? Prole is one of the members of his organisation, and has indicated that she knows my name and where I work on another board. This is not some free speech issue, this is something I find disturbing. And I flag it up here FYI, because I feel safer doing so.

Bloody hell, great start to the weekend.

 

[Kenny Vermouth]

Some advice:

If you don't like it, why not just try fucking off?

Hear hear.

 

[editor]

So far so batshit but I'm sorry to say members of the 'British 9/11 Truth Forum'' organisation of which he is Chair have found out my real name, written and called my family, found out my work address full name and phone number...

So exactly how do you justify being the head of an organisation that hassles the family of a 7/7 survivor, Ian?

(post edited)

 

[Badger Kitten]

It's not him, it's members of the organisation of which he is Chair. I don't know if he has personally written to Dad or not, or phoned him.

 

[Grego Morales]

It's moronic and offensive. To speculate that 7/7 was a conspiracy on the basis of a train time table is beyond parody. In any complex and deverstating event there are bound to be minor inconsistancies here and there, epecially when an event is covered so widely by the media. The conspira-crowd should concentrate on the real pain and suffering caused by those in powerful posistions (that we know exists), not designing their own versions of events based on wild conjecture.