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Universal Credit (UC) and PIP together

that's a really good idea MrSki. i used one a long while ago, and they were brilliant. i'd completely forgotten about them as a resource.
 

Details

www.lawcentres.org.uk www.lawcentres.org.uk
i think that's ^ the one i used, but there is brixton advice centre still running if you're in that area.

if you're not, there's a search box on the right to find your nearest law centre.
e2a cross posted with mr ski - yep , they're disappearing when they're most needed.
 
MrSki said:
This is where you really would benefit from a specialist advisor. Especially with UC replacing JSA. Have you got a local law centre? They might be able to help.
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Okay so how do i find this.

Google has showed me the same firms who let me down so badly with the non mol and failed eviction
 
tufty79 said:

Details

www.lawcentres.org.uk www.lawcentres.org.uk
i think that's ^ the one i used, but there is brixton advice centre still running if you're in that area.

if you're not, there's a search box on the right to find your nearest law centre.
e2a cross posted with mr ski - yep , they're disappearing when they're most needed.
Click to expand...



Cross posted...

Ill look into this
Thank you


But I also need to make the UC application pronto.
 
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i would offer to send a govt shielding box that i never used, but i'm not sure if it's even in date or whether i'd inflict the spam on another human being :hmm;
seriously though.. are you able to access foodbanks/pay as you feel places/soup kitchens if you need to? i went to the Sunday Dining Club aka our local church for a bit when i wasn't doing well with money or cooking...
 
But this question remains:

When filling in the UC forms...

Should I tell all, or is it better to play down my health issues?
 
tufty79 said:
i would offer to send a govt shielding box that i never used, but i'm not sure if it's even in date or whether i'd inflict the spam on another human being :hmm;
seriously though.. are you able to access foodbanks/pay as you feel places/soup kitchens if you need to? i went to the Sunday Dining Club aka our local church for a bit when i wasn't doing well with money or cooking...
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I'll be okay xx
 
wishing you all the luck and more! we're here if you need us to be a bit useless on benefit technicalities but alright at finding resources or being on the other end of a keyboard x
 
i'd be absolutely honest about health problems if you're too unwell to work over 16 hours a week, but that's my brain talking without fully reading and digesting everything properly..
 
There will be a health questionnaire, answer it honestly, don't play it down. At worst, you'll be asked to look for work, at best you'll have to do limited or no work related activity, it will take them a while to decide. Can you get a fit note (aka a sick note) from your GP to be getting on with so you don't have to look for work at first?
 
8115 said:
There will be a health questionnaire, answer it honestly, don't play it down. At worst, you'll be asked to look for work, at best you'll have to do limited or no work related activity, it will take them a while to decide. Can you get a fit note (aka a sick note) from your GP to be getting on with so you don't have to look for work at first?
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Ill try.

My GP (s) (group practice so I rarely see the same person twice) are a bit odd about fit notes. Seem to keep buying me along, bouncing me along. If i was paranoid Id suspect they had some incentive to keep me out of the benefits system.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
Oh Im glad you're up late Puddy_Tat ! Thank you




That's whats underlying my confusion here.

Im told (on this thread) that PIP and UC don't talk to each other. Good, okay.

But if I tell UC I'm not 100% well, will that make them just shunt me over to PIP and say I'm not eligible for UC because I'm not well enough to work?







Yes xx



It's not just off-putting, it's actually debilitating.
First off, it really triggers my PTSD to talk about it at all, then I have anxiety and panic attacks, Every time Ive tired to do this Ive need up getting worse. So I just avoid doing it.

But then also Im trying so hard to fix and mend, and having to prove and eeosmtrayte how unwell I am is deeply at odds with trying to get better.



I know. This is good advice and Ive heard it before, and its good to be reminded because I must must must remember it. It goes against my very grain though, to be mired in the can't stuff.





Theres no perfect solution to this. If they just do appointments, then someone (many) will have to cut short complex conversations . And yes, I expect CAB, like everything else, is stretched very thin right now.

I wonder what the cover incidence is in CAB offices? Are they even seeing anyone right now>?
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UC won't shunt you off to PIP - they are completely unrelated.

Universal credit is an unemployment benefit, and there are three groups:

  • The support group, where your disabilities or health conditions are too severe for you to realistically go to work at all. You get a slightly higher amount of universal credit and don't have to look for work
  • WRAG - The work related activity group, where your disabilities or health conditions make work, or at least full time work, difficult. You don't get any extra money, but you don't get as much pressure to apply for work
  • Everyone else.

When you first apply via the online form, obviously you're automatically in the everyone else group. If you tick that you have a disability or health condition that limits your capacity for work, they will then ask you to submit a fit note from your doctor. You'll need to contact your GP about that - GPs do it all the time and it's very straightforward. After that they'll send you a paper form to complete and send in, and might call you in for a face to face assessment.

It's a long process, but you get universal credit all the way through it, at the "everyone else" rate. And if they decide you're not disabled enough to be put in the WRAG group or the support group, you simply stay in the everyone else group. You don't lose out on any money by telling them about your health.

So don't worry about what you say about your health condition on the online form. It really doesn't mean much at all. You should tell them you have a health condition so you can get the ball rolling for applying to be in WRAG or the support group, but at this stage that's all you need to do. Do that, get the form submitted, then worry about the next steps.

PIP is personal independence payment. It's got zero to do with employment or unemployment. Lots of disabled people in full time work get it - David Blunkett, for example, obviously worked full time, but he got it (it was called DLA then, but it's the same thing). What it's about is if you need someone to help you at home, like with getting dressed, cooking meals, communicating with people, and so on, or help getting around.
 
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purenarcotic said:
New Style ESA is essentially about maintaining your NI contributions. If you have worked and paid NI for the past two years, it is worth going for because receipt of the benefit essentially counts as ongoing NI contributions which are important for pension contributions etc. Whatever you get given in ESA will be taken out of your UC.

The Turn2Us benefits calculator is excellent - you anonymously input your circumstances and it spits out how much you can get to the penny, all broken down by benefit etc.

Universal Credit is the faster application of the two (about fifteen minutes for the initial online application). With PiP forms, more is more, always follow up with a ‘but’ (eg ‘I can dress myself but due to fatigue, I have to lie down for four hours after’ or whatever).
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That's not entirely accurate. You get national insurance contributions with universal credit as well - new style ESA is not an advantage there.

New style ESA is only available for people who've made enough national insurance contributions through work over the last three years. You can get it for six months even if your partner works, and, if you are deemed significantly disabled, you can continue getting it for longer too. That's the advantage it has over universal credit - with universal credit, your partner's income is taken into account. But it doesn't apply to Sheila so it can just be ignored for now.
 
scifisam said:
UC won't shunt you off to PIP - they are completely unrelated.

Universal credit is an unemployment benefit, and there are three groups:

  • The support group, where your disabilities or health conditions are too severe for you to realistically go to work at all. You get a slightly higher amount of universal credit and don't have to look for work
  • WRAG - The work related activity group, where your disabilities or health conditions make work, or at least full time work, difficult. You don't get any extra money, but you don't get as much pressure to apply for work
  • Everyone else.

When you first apply via the online form, obviously you're automatically in the everyone else group. If you tick that you have a disability or health condition that limits your capacity for work, they will then ask you to submit a fit note from your doctor. You'll need to contact your GP about that - GPs do it all the time and it's very straightforward. After that they'll send you a paper form to complete and send in, and might call you in for a face to face assessment.

It's a long process, but you get universal credit all the way through it, at the "everyone else" rate. And if they decide you're not disabled enough to be put in the WRAG group or the support group, you simply stay in the everyone else group. You don't lose out on any money by telling them about your health.

So don't worry about what you say about your health condition on the online form. It really doesn't mean much at all. You should tell them you have a health condition so you can get the ball rolling for applying to be in WRAG or the support group, but at this stage that's all you need to do. Do that, get the form submitted, then worry about the next steps.

PIP is personal independence payment. It's got zero to do with employment or unemployment. Lots of disabled people in full time work get it - David Blunkett, for example, obviously worked full time, but he got it (it was called DLA then, but it's the same thing). What it's about is if you need someone to help you at home, like with getting dressed, cooking meals, communicating with people, and so on, or help getting around.
Click to expand...

This! You can claim PIP and UC with the Limited capability to work element. I would be writing down your health difficulties and if you are unable to look for work then that should be made clear and get a fit note from your GP. You will then be sent the Work Capability Form to complete.

Remember when the government said the new style of UC would be more simple?
 
SheilaNaGig said:
Oh Im glad you're up late Puddy_Tat ! Thank you




That's whats underlying my confusion here.

Im told (on this thread) that PIP and UC don't talk to each other. Good, okay.

But if I tell UC I'm not 100% well, will that make them just shunt me over to PIP and say I'm not eligible for UC because I'm not well enough to work?







Yes xx



It's not just off-putting, it's actually debilitating.
First off, it really triggers my PTSD to talk about it at all, then I have anxiety and panic attacks, Every time Ive tired to do this Ive need up getting worse. So I just avoid doing it.

But then also Im trying so hard to fix and mend, and having to prove and eeosmtrayte how unwell I am is deeply at odds with trying to get better.



I know. This is good advice and Ive heard it before, and its good to be reminded because I must must must remember it. It goes against my very grain though, to be mired in the can't stuff.





Theres no perfect solution to this. If they just do appointments, then someone (many) will have to cut short complex conversations . And yes, I expect CAB, like everything else, is stretched very thin right now.

I wonder what the cover incidence is in CAB offices? Are they even seeing anyone right now>?
Click to expand...
Being told you're ineligible for UC and shunted over to PIP isn't a thing that would happen, they're two completely different benefits.

UC is for people who are out of work due to unemployment or ill health, or those who work (part-time or full-time) but whose pay is low and they need top-ups.

PIP is intended to help people meet the additional costs caused by disability/disabilities. It isn't related to whether or not you're working. People can receive PIP if they're working or if they're not working. It's assessed on the basis of care needs and mobility needs, and there are different rates for different levels of need. If you're assessed as eg needing the standard rate for care and low amount for mobility, then that's the amount you should receive. The amount doesn't go up or down depending on whether your income fluctuates. PIP doesn't go up if you're out of work or if you're working but your hours are cut, and it doesn't go down if you earn more money. It's meant to e.g. cover the cost of a carer, additional aids or transport costs, the additional costs associated with being disabled.

So UC or ESA or whatever are about covering cost of living costs and they are totally separate benefits to disability-related PIP.

You can receive eg PIP + UC, or PIP + ESA, it's not an either/or thing.

Also, UC and ESA can be paid to homeowners, so I'm not sure why people are telling you to sell your home. You're not precluded from receiving benefits if you're a homeowner.

A problem arises with homeowners, however, because while renters get their rent paid from the beginning of a claim (or at least help with their rent to an amount equivalent to the local housing allowance for a property of the appropriate size in their local area) plus if they rent a flat they get help with the service charge element from the off. Whereas people who are homeowners aren't entitled to any help first the first approx. nine months. And then they can get help with mortgage interest (not capital repayment) and service charges if applicable, but these are now loans.

I think the system is designed to make homeowners nowadays take out eg income protection insurance/critical illness insurance, so if they can't work for whatever reason then the insurance would hopefully kick in and meet the repayments. But if someone doesn't have that, then they face having to pay nine months' worth of mortgage payments before they get any help whatsoever from DWP and I suspect relatively few people who encounter the benefits system have the savings to do that with ease. Some people might be able to take a temporary mortgage payment holiday, lenders have been offering them more freely because of the pandemic. But a mortgage payment holiday is a temporary solution.

You really do need specialist advice from a welfare rights adviser and not to take anything the DWP say at face value, take it with a pinch of salt.
 
After some advice for a neighbour...

She is a truck driver and it seems is in more of a 'gig economy' job than I thought would be allowed (but here we are UK). She hurt her knee yesterday and was up the hospital till nearly 2am and I had to carry her up the stairs :(

Issue is she moves onto SSP rather than any support from her employer. She is renting the flat opposite me and has around £1k a month on basics (rent/bills/et) outgoings. Her fella works but he has child costs to the tune of £500ish pm and together they have the usual outgoings of any tenant in this beshitted country.

Now she is entitled to SSP but what I did not realise is that she is £30k in debt :( I think she had kept that private (as would I possibly) and servicing it is impossible if she can't work. I am half able to carry her to the toilet or bath (FFS) but am after some advice on financial stuff if possible? My first thought was personal bankruptcy :hmm: but I don't know much about that. Without me kicking off at how this is allowed to happen does anyone have links or advice?

Poor lass can't walk down the stairs to have a smoke at the moment :( so I have to put up with her smoking in my kitchen :D
 
I’ve no advice about getting benefits as thankfully never had to, but I’m sad it’s making you feel so overwhelmed. My best mate has got this ME thing and just completed the pip form and got the money without any bullshit. So maybe don’t assume it’ll be more difficult than it might be. You’d think it’d be even easier with cancer too.
 
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