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Universal Credit (UC) and PIP together

^ I referred myself for a housing support worker this year about <issues>; they are good for signposting, and referred me to their benefits worker for my pip review - I had double backup with the forms between them and welfare rights. If there's a similar service wherever you are, they might be a good joined up resource if you need it.
 
I've not got anything to add to the recommendations you've already been given, other than to add my support. I'm currently asking for a mandatory reconsideration, after my PIP was stopped last month.
 
www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk

Health conditions, disability and Universal Credit

If you have a health condition or disability, you’ll have an assessment to work out how much Universal Credit you can get and what you need to do in return.
www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk
Unsure whether you are working or not, bit this might be relevant.



If you are working
If you earn more than the equivalent of 16 hours’ work per week paid at the National Minimum Wage, you will not be able to receive either the limited capability for work or limited capability for work and work-related activity payment unless you are also getting Disability Living Allowance (DLA) or Personal Independence Payment (PIP). If you are getting DLA or PIP you will still need to attend a Work Capability Assessment to assess whether you can receive this extra amount.

Access to work
Access to Work is a publicly funded employment support programme that aims to help more disabled people start or stay in work. It can provide practical and financial support if you have a disability or long term physical or mental health condition that makes it hard for you to do your job.

An Access to Work grant can pay for practical support to help you:

start working
stay in work
move into self-employment or start a business
 
Puddy_Tat said:
just a thought (i'm thinking about disability premiums in income support / housing benefit based on how it worked 30 years ago so may be meowing up the wrong tree here)- others may be able to shed light on this

would someone get UC at a higher rate if they are receiving / claiming PIP?

on the basis that PIP takes ages to process, presume it's best to claim UC now rather than wait, but should (in these circumstances) you say you're claiming PIP on the UC claim?

or should SNG claim ESA not UC to start with?

do you have to declare as fit and available for work at the initial stage of UC claim, and is there a 'catch 22' where if you do that you won't get ESA / PIP, but if you don't then you won't get UC until PIP has been awarded? Friend got caught up in something like this when they said no to his ESA at one point and he had to claim UC and declare as fit for work while seeking review of the ESA claim which was on the basis he wasn't fit for work...
Click to expand...
Something similar happened to me years ago, iirc. I think they rejected a claim for ESA (can't remember why, maybe I hadn't sent some medical evidence or something, or maybe I'd had an assessment or something) and they said that I should apply for JSA while appealing or something.

I told them I couldn't claim for JSA (or whatever dole equivalent it was at the time, as in order to claim it I had to say I was fit for work and was looking for work). I told them if I did what they said, it would effectively be a fraudulent claim (and they were effectively telling me to make that fraudulent claim).

It all worked out in the end, think they overturned a decision in my favour. Think it was a time when I was waiting for surgery and unable to work till I'd been fixed.

I think what DWP staff do in this kind of scenario is very dodgy indeed.

I just told them point blank that I couldn't lie and say I was fit for work and looking for work when I wasn't, in order to claim (dole equivalent), but that was what they were encouraging me to do.
 
New Style ESA is essentially about maintaining your NI contributions. If you have worked and paid NI for the past two years, it is worth going for because receipt of the benefit essentially counts as ongoing NI contributions which are important for pension contributions etc. Whatever you get given in ESA will be taken out of your UC.

The Turn2Us benefits calculator is excellent - you anonymously input your circumstances and it spits out how much you can get to the penny, all broken down by benefit etc.

Universal Credit is the faster application of the two (about fifteen minutes for the initial online application). With PiP forms, more is more, always follow up with a ‘but’ (eg ‘I can dress myself but due to fatigue, I have to lie down for four hours after’ or whatever).
 
So I'm filling in the online form...

On the UC form, is it better to tell them all my ongoing health issues or to play these down?





Sorry I've been absent on here, and thank you to all for all the helpful support.

For some reason I can't fully understand I feel really paralysed about all this.
 
MrSki said:
My late brother had to apply & went to Citizens Advice who did it all for him & were brilliant.
Click to expand...


My local CAB is queues round the block from an hour before they open. Whenever Ive been there everyone look utterly wrung out and exhausted. On both sides of the desk. If possible, I prefer to use my there resources (like here xx) and leave the CAB to those who are really stuck for help.











I'm sorry of the loss of your brother. The death of a sibling has always seemed to me to be a terrible thing.
 
purenarcotic said:
New Style ESA is essentially about maintaining your NI contributions. If you have worked and paid NI for the past two years, it is worth going for because receipt of the benefit essentially counts as ongoing NI contributions which are important for pension contributions etc. Whatever you get given in ESA will be taken out of your UC.

The Turn2Us benefits calculator is excellent - you anonymously input your circumstances and it spits out how much you can get to the penny, all broken down by benefit etc.

Universal Credit is the faster application of the two (about fifteen minutes for the initial online application). With PiP forms, more is more, always follow up with a ‘but’ (eg ‘I can dress myself but due to fatigue, I have to lie down for four hours after’ or whatever).
Click to expand...


There's a massive scary hole in my NI. In my dreamy imagination I can somehow pay all that back and be okay...

I didn't get a single penny when I was off work with the cancer. It all feels so desperately overwhelming. And I know I'm far better off than many others who have to negotiate this stuff.


That's a really good tip about saying "But..." No one else has said it although it seems very obvious. The form is daunting because it is cleverly designed to discourage you from saying the "but" stuff.

Thank you, once again, purenarcotic , for shining a light in the dark.
 
8115 said:
Also check out New Style ESA if relevant. I don't understand it either.
Click to expand...


I'm not eligible for ESA, I don't think...

Is this something I should look into?
I feel like I"ve exhausted this at some point in the past... (trying to remember...)
 
By the way, I apologise for the johnnycanuck3 style of replying to all these one by one. It's the middle of the night so hopefully it won't annoy anyone looking at New Posts
 
SheilaNaGig said:
On the UC form, is it better to tell them all my ongoing health issues or to play these down?
Click to expand...

that i don't know. are you having to claim you're fit for work for this?

SheilaNaGig said:
For some reason I can't fully understand I feel really paralysed about all this.
Click to expand...

that's how the system is designed. i refer to my previous "don't let the bastards grind you down"

and there's also something off-putting about describing being ill / disabled and the effects that has on your life / functioning.

don't be too english about it and say you're fine / muddling along / mustn't grumble and that sort of thing - either on the form or (if it comes to that) to anyone you speak to at any assessment centre. it's not 'polite conversation' it's all part of the assessment.

Likewise, if your answer to "can you do X?" is "sometimes / just about / with so much effort i'm wiped out for a few days afterwards" then they will interpret that as "yes, no problem"

SheilaNaGig said:
My local CAB is queues round the block from an hour before they open.
Click to expand...

i can imagine. some CABs do work on appointment system rather than 'turn up and wait' but i expect they are overloaded at the moment.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
Something similar happened to me years ago, iirc. I think they rejected a claim for ESA (can't remember why, maybe I hadn't sent some medical evidence or something, or maybe I'd had an assessment or something) and they said that I should apply for JSA while appealing or something.

I told them I couldn't claim for JSA (or whatever dole equivalent it was at the time, as in order to claim it I had to say I was fit for work and was looking for work). I told them if I did what they said, it would effectively be a fraudulent claim (and they were effectively telling me to make that fraudulent claim).

It all worked out in the end, think they overturned a decision in my favour. Think it was a time when I was waiting for surgery and unable to work till I'd been fixed.

I think what DWP staff do in this kind of scenario is very dodgy indeed.

I just told them point blank that I couldn't lie and say I was fit for work and looking for work when I wasn't, in order to claim (dole equivalent), but that was what they were encouraging me to do.
Click to expand...


I think this was my problem with the ESA thing.

I was dealing with cancer and a horrible situation in my private life that were at odds with each other, and they kept saying I needed to be looking for work (but I was dealing with cancer treatment) or... actually yeah, Im not going any further with trying to remember. Anxiety rising like a wave now.

Tra la la!

Its all good
 
Puddy_Tat said:
i can imagine. some CABs do work on appointment system rather than 'turn up and wait' but i expect they are overloaded at the moment.
Click to expand...
Yeah my brother went to one in Dorset which was easy as & after his initial appointment (10 minute wait), the advisor did home visits.
When I lived in Tottenham, I went & hour & half before the 9.30am opening & still had to queue. Got to the first interview stage before you see a specialist advisor but had to leave cos I had a 2pm Doctors appointment. It was certainly depressing cos others probably had worse problems than me. Not a chatty waiting room.
 
Oh Im glad you're up late Puddy_Tat ! Thank you


Puddy_Tat said:
that i don't know. are you having to claim you're fit for work for this?
Click to expand...

That's whats underlying my confusion here.

Im told (on this thread) that PIP and UC don't talk to each other. Good, okay.

But if I tell UC I'm not 100% well, will that make them just shunt me over to PIP and say I'm not eligible for UC because I'm not well enough to work?





Puddy_Tat said:
that's how the system is designed. i refer to my previous "don't let the bastards grind you down"
Click to expand...

Yes xx

Puddy_Tat said:
and there's also something off-putting about describing being ill / disabled and the effects that has on your life / functioning.
Click to expand...

It's not just off-putting, it's actually debilitating.
First off, it really triggers my PTSD to talk about it at all, then I have anxiety and panic attacks, Every time Ive tired to do this Ive need up getting worse. So I just avoid doing it.

But then also Im trying so hard to fix and mend, and having to prove and eeosmtrayte how unwell I am is deeply at odds with trying to get better.

don't be too english about it and say you're fine / muddling along / mustn't grumble and that sort of thing - either on the form or (if it comes to that) to anyone you speak to at any assessment centre. it's not 'polite conversation' it's all part of the assessment.

Likewise, if your answer to "can you do X?" is "sometimes / just about / with so much effort i'm wiped out for a few days afterwards" then they will interpret that as "yes, no problem"
Click to expand...

I know. This is good advice and Ive heard it before, and its good to be reminded because I must must must remember it. It goes against my very grain though, to be mired in the can't stuff.



i can imagine. some CABs do work on appointment system rather than 'turn up and wait' but i expect they are overloaded at the moment.
Click to expand...

Theres no perfect solution to this. If they just do appointments, then someone (many) will have to cut short complex conversations . And yes, I expect CAB, like everything else, is stretched very thin right now.

I wonder what the cover incidence is in CAB offices? Are they even seeing anyone right now>?
 
MrSki said:
Yeah my brother went to one in Dorset which was easy as & after his initial appointment (10 minute wait), the advisor did home visits.
When I lived in Tottenham, I went & hour & half before the 9.30am opening & still had to queue. Got to the first interview stage before you see a specialist advisor but had to leave cos I had a 2pm Doctors appointment. It was certainly depressing cos others probably had worse problems than me. Not a chatty waiting room.
Click to expand...


I totally recognise this from my own experience.

The inner city bit, not the Devon bit,
 
i can't help on the uc/esa bits, but in terms of the CAB, i've plucked lambeth and merton as an example

We can only help you if you live, work or study in the London Boroughs of Merton or Lambeth. If not then please click here to find your local Citizens Advice.

they have an online contact form which they aim to get back to you within 3 days on but with covid caveats, they've also got a phone line. they can do phone appts as far as i know, generally speaking.

Advice Contact Form — Citizens Advice Merton and Lambeth

www.caml.org.uk www.caml.org.uk
 
tufty79 said:
www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk

Health conditions, disability and Universal Credit

If you have a health condition or disability, you’ll have an assessment to work out how much Universal Credit you can get and what you need to do in return.
www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk
Unsure whether you are working or not, bit this might be relevant.



If you are working
If you earn more than the equivalent of 16 hours’ work per week paid at the National Minimum Wage, you will not be able to receive either the limited capability for work or limited capability for work and work-related activity payment unless you are also getting Disability Living Allowance (DLA) or Personal Independence Payment (PIP). If you are getting DLA or PIP you will still need to attend a Work Capability Assessment to assess whether you can receive this extra amount.

Access to work
Access to Work is a publicly funded employment support programme that aims to help more disabled people start or stay in work. It can provide practical and financial support if you have a disability or long term physical or mental health condition that makes it hard for you to do your job.

An Access to Work grant can pay for practical support to help you:

start working
stay in work
move into self-employment or start a business
Click to expand...


I'm working, after a fashion. But income is minimal and erratic. Definitely less than 16 hrs/wk

I'm not eligible for Access to Work because I don't fit the criteria.




I seem to fall between several stools
 
tufty79 said:
i can't help on the uc/esa bits, but in terms of the CAB, i've plucked lambeth and merton as an example

We can only help you if you live, work or study in the London Boroughs of Merton or Lambeth. If not then please click here to find your local Citizens Advice.

they have an online contact form which they aim to get back to you within 3 days on but with covid caveats, they've also got a phone line. they can do phone appts as far as i know, generally speaking.

Advice Contact Form — Citizens Advice Merton and Lambeth

www.caml.org.uk www.caml.org.uk
Click to expand...


Because cancer, I'm able to access the Macmillan help and support teams. They've been really lovely, but (as I say above) I seem to fall between several stools.

Or I did in the past, when I was ineligible for JSA or UC because I was incap[able of work, and yet, somehow, not eligible for any other benefit either.

they actually said to me 'then you need to sell your house and live off the proceeds of that". I was told this by three different p[eopel.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
I'm working, after a fashion. But income is minimal and erratic. Definitely less than 16 hrs/wk

I'm not eligible for Access to Work because I don't fit the criteria.




I seem to fall between several stools
Click to expand...
This is where you really would benefit from a specialist advisor. Especially with UC replacing JSA. Have you got a local law centre? They might be able to help.
 
Local law centre...


ETA
Oh wait... This is bringing back memories.
Jeez, I feel like such a ficking victim here

When I was trying to find legal help to get the non molesattion order against Matey I tried to find a local law centre to help me and I was flummoxed, Ended up using my credit card to pay for a trainee to do it for me. purenarcotic was really helpful through all that (thank you again)
 
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