UNISON/UCU* Joint HE Thread

[Lord Camomile]

With the first meeting of the 24/25 negotiations tomorrow, and the initial claim and response published, thought it might be worth trying to have a joint thread for union members in HE. Not just because I never quite stopped feeling awkward posting on the UCU thread

UCEA's response focuses heavily on fees and the lack of increase, echoing what our lot have been saying locally. I always push back against any rhetoric that you have to sacrifice either access to education or staff welfare, and hope the national conversation will too.

Sure, it's the system we're in at the moment, but I think it's crucial we don't allow "improve pay for staff" to be taken as synonymous with "increase student fees".

Doubt anyone is expecting a reasonable offer. So the question simply becomes whether union members have recovered enough fight following the past few years.





*and others

 

[hitmouse]

Hadn't realised that UoBirmingham (who bargain locally, not nationally) were out again the other week:

Strike action called for 20, 21, 22 March

As we mentioned in our last post, the reballot for our dispute about pay and conditons at the University closed in February and our members made a clear decision to continue strike action, for the …

uobunison.org.uk

Strike action 20, 21 and 22 March – all you need to know

UNISON support staff at the University of Birmingham are due to take three days of strike action this week. At well attended meetings on Thursday, members unanimously backed the committee’s p…

uobunison.org.uk

Dunno how going out of national bargaining works - presumably both UCU and UNISON (and any other relevant unions) all have to agree to it? Oh, just looked and UoB are in the JNCHES list with a footnote saying "Participate for part of the workforce only", so presumably their UCU are in but their UNISON is out?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Hm, wonder if that'll shake things all about


(Apologies, but barely )

 

[Lord Camomile]

Had heard summat about Birmingham, but will have to catch up on the specifics.

Have been hoping to do the same with the process in general, in an effort to hopefully be able to translate the fundamentals for other members, but that might well end up just more hubris on my part...

 

[Lord Camomile]

This list makes for seriously depressing reading

This is a live page of all the redundancies and closures taking place across the sector at the moment. Solidarity to all. This sector is vital to the country’s future and the vandalism to it unconscionable.

Have a mate who teaches at Kent, and have been getting (sadly, quite frequent) updates on how bad things have been there. Modules, courses and entire depts. being axed Including the dept. that half my degree comes from!

Likewise, my dad's old dept. at Middlesex looks to be all but gone, too.

Really don't know what to make of it in the context of the pay negotiations. Some institutions have money, but it really seems like a hell of a lot of the sector simply... doesn't.

I really don't want to fall for the employer's arguments, but can HE actually afford to pay their staff what they should right now? I'm honestly not sure how HE survives long-term without a complete overhaul of the funding system (i.e. public funding rather than tuition fees).

Well, I guess it becomes even more like the US system?

 

[BoatieBird]

Thanks for starting the thread Lord Camomile.

I'm not sure I've got the stomach for yet more, prolonged strike action tbh.
My place is one of those listed in the above article, and while they're fairly confident it won't come to compulsory redundancies, I feel we're living in uncertain times.
It all feels a bit shit really

 

[Lord Camomile]

Yeah, the extended action of the past couple of years was great to see, but get the sense it's really taken its toll, and there are a lot of people feeling similarly.

Small positive in terms of the potential for compulsory redundancies, but agree 100% that everything feels uncertain, and feels like it could get more so before (if!) it gets any better. I'm at a relatively 'insulated' and 'stable' institution, compared to a lot of places (and particularly those on The List), so it's not quite as sharp as for many, but it still feels like it's just trying to reduce/slow down the damage. And the sector-wide context still feels pretty bleak and depressing.

Honestly don't know what the most positive course of action is I was getting ready to gee myself and our members up for another ballot and round of strike action, but the wider national context has really deflated a lot of that.

Among a number of UNISON branches, the talk seems to be "use the national action to win local disputes/gains". I can the sense of that, though it does instinctively rankle as feeling like it runs counter to the general 'collective' spirit. We've also had a few (relatively modest) local wins lately, so not quite sure what we'd aim for or the best way to get it.

 

[hitmouse]

This list makes for seriously depressing reading


Have a mate who teaches at Kent, and have been getting (sadly, quite frequent) updates on how bad things have been there. Modules, courses and entire depts. being axed Including the dept. that half my degree comes from!

Likewise, my dad's old dept. at Middlesex looks to be all but gone, too.

Really don't know what to make of it in the context of the pay negotiations. Some institutions have money, but it really seems like a hell of a lot of the sector simply... doesn't.

I really don't want to fall for the employer's arguments, but can HE actually afford to pay their staff what they should right now? I'm honestly not sure how HE survives long-term without a complete overhaul of the funding system (i.e. public funding rather than tuition fees).

Well, I guess it becomes even more like the US system?

Yeah, I think this is one of the reasons why national bargaining is so broken in a heavily marketised system, when you have some universities that are genuinely broke, how do you have a national pay structure without having it tied to what the poorest universities can afford to pay? But then just saying "well, the richer universities should pull out and cut their own deals" seems like a less than ideal outcome as well.
And there's a whole other conversation to be had about international student fees, with the ridiculous double standard meaning that institutions that can attract international students can squeeze far more fees per person out of them than they can with domestics. Which is obviously not ethically great and probably not super sustainable in the long-term anyway, but also runs into more immediate challenges when universities who're betting their financial stability on those inflated international fees run up into a government that's out of ideas other than "make things tougher for foreigners."

Yeah, the extended action of the past couple of years was great to see, but get the sense it's really taken its toll, and there are a lot of people feeling similarly.

Small positive in terms of the potential for compulsory redundancies, but agree 100% that everything feels uncertain, and feels like it could get more so before (if!) it gets any better. I'm at a relatively 'insulated' and 'stable' institution, compared to a lot of places (and particularly those on The List), so it's not quite as sharp as for many, but it still feels like it's just trying to reduce/slow down the damage. And the sector-wide context still feels pretty bleak and depressing.

Honestly don't know what the most positive course of action is I was getting ready to gee myself and our members up for another ballot and round of strike action, but the wider national context has really deflated a lot of that.

Among a number of UNISON branches, the talk seems to be "use the national action to win local disputes/gains". I can the sense of that, though it does instinctively rankle as feeling like it runs counter to the general 'collective' spirit. We've also had a few (relatively modest) local wins lately, so not quite sure what we'd aim for or the best way to get it.

Yeah, I mean the ideal outcome would be for UCU to win another national aggregate ballot and for their action to be supported by a growing number of Unison branches... but I don't think we're going to see that outcome. Dunno if UCU have even made an aggregate/disaggregate decision yet, but seems to me like the wisest choice would be for them to go back to dis. Offered with the caveat that I definitely thought they were going to lose their last few national ballots that they actually won, but hard to see a way back to that level of strength now.
And yeah, in the absence of a force that could genuinely shake UUK nationally, I suspect that local wins are probably the best that can be hoped for. I'm sure your members will be able to think of more things they'd like, even if it is just bumping your local grading up the national pay spine a bit further.

 

[Lord Camomile]

even if it is just bumping your local grading up the national pay spine a bit further.

Aye, think that's possibly one of the main targets at the moment.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Have a mate who teaches at Kent, and have been getting (sadly, quite frequent) updates on how bad things have been there. Modules, courses and entire depts. being axed Including the dept. that half my degree comes from!

The UCU branch have now voted to strike, 85% on a 57% turnout.

The vote comes after 58 staff were placed at risk of redundancy as part of a programme that would see courses closed across the university.

Courses set to go include art history, music and audio technology, philosophy, religious studies, anthropology, health and social care, and journalism. A petition to save the courses has now reached over 16k signatures. Management also wants to slash the amount of time staff have allocated to research from 40% to as little as 20%.

 

[mango5]

Folk where I work were all talking about this today The Goldsmiths crisis: how cuts and culture wars sent universities into a death spiral

 

[Lord Camomile]

So following

Further talks took place on all relevant issues at the third meeting of the 2024-25 New JNCHES pay round.
The meeting was adjourned with both sides agreeing to reconvene in mid-May.

after the standard three negotiating meetings, we now have this after that mid-May reconvening meeting:

Further talks took place on all relevant issues at Wednesday’s meeting of the 2024-25 New JNCHES pay round. Both sides agreed to reconvene next week

My instinctive, possibly naive, reaction is that this is at least vaguely positive, suggesting both parties see potential for making further progress, rather than just moving straight to a dispute after the third negotiations as in previous years.

I still don't hold out a lot of hope that any final offer will be something properly acceptable, but we'll see...

I do wonder if both unions and employers are more aligned in trying to avoid further industrial action than in previous years.

 

[mango5]

Horrible times continue at Goldsmiths. Here's some context that speaks to UK HE and beyond. A Goldsmiths Diary
I imagine there will be more media attention next week.

 

[mango5]

Just discovered this lot. Any thoughts?

Council for the Defence of British Universities | CDBU

The Council for the Defence of British Universities is proud to fund research into many aspects of higher education in the UK, including governance, policy, ...

cdbu.org.uk

Via this

 

[hitmouse]

As I'm sure you'll all have seen, there's only been one really important news story this week:

UCEA "full and final offer" in 2024-25 pay round

If inflation goes as low as projected, it is an above inflation pay rise for everyone. But it isn't what was asked for.

wonkhe.com

Took them fucking long enough. Unions have until Friday 12th to respond, I think.

The employers have offered a staged uplift of between 2.5 per cent and 5.7 per cent, with an extra £900 for everyone on 1 August, and the remainder added (based on your spine point, with the lowest paid getting topped up to the full 5.7 per cent, and the 2.5 per cent applying to those on pay point 38, around £44,000 and above) in March 2025.

The preamble notes the poor prevailing financial conditions for the sector, including TPS contribution rises, declines in income from international recruitment, and home fee freezes – though it does note a projected return to (CPI) inflation rates of around 2 per cent and below over the rest of 2024 and 2025.

Inflation sits (May 2024) at 2.8 per cent (this is CPIH – which will replace RPI entirely in 2030), while the union’s favoured measure of RPI is at 3 per cent. This is not anything like a blanket inflation plus 2 per cent offer – it is more generous (but not as generous as the alternative £2,500 requested) at lower spine points, but less generous (though still likely to be at or near inflation by the time it is implemented) higher up.

Importantly, this increase is on top of ensuring all pay points are above the national living wage, a long overdue development for the many ancillary staff that work at our universities and colleges. We don’t get an increase to the Foundation Living Wage, with the excuse that this will be covered within the review of the pay spine.

I'd be interested to see exactly who gets what out of the 2.5-5.7% range, but I've looked at the offer itself and it doesn't seem to have much detail in terms of what it actually means at different points across the pay scale. I suppose UNISON/Unite/GMB are likely to have at least some members who'll be closer to the 5.7% and not many UCU will get much more than 2.5%? And there's EIS but I dunno how they work.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I knew it was out, but with everything else going on haven't had a chance to look over and digest it.

 

[hitmouse]

Bit belated, but as of 10 July, UCU say:

HE negotiations 2024-25

Information on the UK-wide higher education negotiations for 2024-25.

www.ucu.org.uk

UCU held a branch delegate meeting (BDM) on Tuesday 2 July to feed back members' views to inform the deliberation of the UCU higher education committee (HEC) who met on Friday 5 July to consider the offer from UCEA. You can find the results of the BDM here.

On Friday 5 July, HEC voted to reject the current offer and trigger dispute resolution meetings in order to improve upon the offer. HEC also resolved to build a campaign for industrial action to win on pay, workload, casualisation and equality.

UCU will now look to enter the dispute resolution process with the employers' representatives. Click here for the full update from UCU general secretary Jo Grady.

Unison say... well, if there's been any national comms, I've not seen them.
UCEA say:

2024-25 New JNCHES pay round

After the final negotiating meeting on 26 June, UCEA wrote to the unions with a final offer for 2024-25, for a sectoral pay bill uplift of 2.5%, to be implemented in two phases during the 2024-25 year together with a review of the pay spine and joint work on non-pay issues in the unions’ claim. By 10 July UCU has rejected the offer and UNISON’s Sector Group Executive have voted to consult members with a recommendation to reject the offer. An update for Unite, EIS and GMB is expected week commencing 15 July. Dispute resolution meetings will be arranged as soon as UCEA has confirmation from all trade unions. UCEA will endeavour to hold the meetings as soon as possible. UCEA also issued a media release Employers are deeply disappointed by trade unions’ initial reaction to final pay offer.

Not ideal that the only info I can find about the UNISON SGE's position seems to be from the bosses' press releases, but

 

[redsquirrel]

No way the offer could be accepted - especially with UCEA playing silly buggers trying to make negotiators argue for offers.
But can't see members voting for industrial action on pay at this time either

 

[redsquirrel]

Notes from Below are having an organising day for HE workers - 20th October, London

October University Rank-and-File Dayschool · Luma

We're organising the sixth rank-and-file dayschool for university workers. It is open to anyone who works in the university and wants to start building…

lu.ma

In less pleasant news - we've been informed that our employer is looking to cut 100-150 jobs this year. Going to be pretty awful Xmas and new year.

 

[hitmouse]

UNISON's consultative ballot voted to reject, and so branches are now officially preparing for a ballot to start in November:

Higher Education Pay 2024-25 | UNISON National

UNISON members in higher education continue to work hard every day to ensure universities are safe and students are getting the best learning experience.

www.unison.org.uk

Not sure what UCU are planning, but after the last few years and given everything else going on I'm not really holding my breath for them to start taking national strike action over pay any time soon.

 

[Lord Camomile]

UNISON's consultative ballot voted to reject, and so branches are now officially preparing for a ballot to start in November:

Higher Education Pay 2024-25 | UNISON National

UNISON members in higher education continue to work hard every day to ensure universities are safe and students are getting the best learning experience.

www.unison.org.uk

Not sure what UCU are planning, but after the last few years and given everything else going on I'm not really holding my breath for them to start taking national strike action over pay any time soon.

Not entirely clear if it's going to be an aggregated or disaggregated ballot, although the interpretation/assumption of the couple of I've spoken to about it is that it'll be disaggregated.

I'm in that awkward position where I feel like if I say how I feel out loud it could only really be detrimental to proceedings/spirits. So, I've ended up being a lot quieter on this pay campaign than I have on others.

 

[hitmouse]

Not entirely clear if it's going to be an aggregated or disaggregated ballot, although the interpretation/assumption of the couple of I've spoken to about it is that it'll be disaggregated.

I'm in that awkward position where I feel like if I say how it feel out loud it could only really be detrimental to proceedings/spirits. So, I've ended up being a lot quieter on this pay campaign than I have on others.

Definitely disaggregate. I think there will be some kind of an option to opt out but I think branches wanting to do so may need to submit a fairly strong case as to why.

 

[hitmouse]

Latest from UCU is:

HE negotiations 2024-25

Information on the UK-wide higher education negotiations for 2024-25.

www.ucu.org.uk

4 October 2024

UCU's higher education committee (HEC) met on 27 September to consider UCEA's final offer and voted to reject the pay element of the offer and to accept the terms of reference relating to the pay spine review, workload, casualisation, and equality pay gaps. HEC also voted to launch a consultative ballot on the offer and further details about this will be made available in due course.

So UCU will just be starting their consultative ballot when Unison were planning to run their actual real ballot, in light of this I think Unison might be revisiting their plans and potentially delaying them until there's a bit more info about what UCU are doing.

 

[redsquirrel]

Rise in tuition fees for 25/26

University fees in England to rise next autumn for first time in eight years

Ministers to announce increase in annual fees, which have been capped at £9,250 since 2017

www.theguardian.com

As one commentator noted it seems another political misstep by Starmer - £250 is small change as regarding funding for universities, while at the same time it is going to piss off students and more of Labour's base (though lots of them - including former MP Beth Winter, have probably already had enough).

And it shows there is no plan - even within their own political framework - to solve the problems that exist in higher, and tertiary, eduction. .

 

[Pickman's model]

Rise in tuition fees for 25/26

University fees in England to rise next autumn for first time in eight years

Ministers to announce increase in annual fees, which have been capped at £9,250 since 2017

www.theguardian.com

As one commentator noted it seems another political misstep by Starmer - £250 is small change as regarding funding for universities, while at the same time it is going to piss off students and more of Labour's base (though lots of them - including former MP Beth Winter, have probably already had enough).

And it shows there is no plan - even within their own political framework - to solve the problems that exist in higher, and tertiary, eduction. .

Not to mention fe

 

[mango5]

As golightly wryly observed, taking a job in this institution is like a rat running onto a sinking ship.

Goldsmiths realism: how London’s radical university ate itself

‘There is no shortage of TikToks of crying students warning prospective enrollees to go somewhere else’

www.the-londoner.co.uk