weltweit
Well-Known Member
yep, rules .. as laid down and managed by Elizabeth Denham Elizabeth Denham CBE, Information Commissioner"rules"
UK coronavirus tracking app - discussion
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
"rules"
Init. Two words: Dominic Cummings. Abusing hoarded data has made him de facto prime minister, why would he stop now?
Yes, and the law says you can't go hoovering up personal data from social media and using it to produce highly targeted and deeply dishonest political ad campaigns. Much good that has done.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I'm absolutely up for assisting with health data, hate that it's another Tory stitch-up ...
It's academic in my case as :-
1. I have no significant contact with other human beings - certainly not 15 minutes' worth.
2. the phone I usually carry may not even be capable of running it and the battery is massively shagged.
I suppose when they turn off 3G of I might start carrying my 4G phone with the iffy screen - though I've never actually made a phone call out of doors ...
Given the money this government pisses away, they probably ought to issue stand-alone health trackers ...
It's academic in my case as :-
1. I have no significant contact with other human beings - certainly not 15 minutes' worth.
2. the phone I usually carry may not even be capable of running it and the battery is massively shagged.
I suppose when they turn off 3G of I might start carrying my 4G phone with the iffy screen - though I've never actually made a phone call out of doors ...
Given the money this government pisses away, they probably ought to issue stand-alone health trackers ...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I suspect that like other apps one needs a smartphone to get this one. And millions of people don't have smartphones, many of who will be in categories greatly at risk from c19. So leaving hacking / privacy / will it really work concerns aside, many of the people who really need the information about having contact with a sufferer won't get it.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
But it's not the whole picture is my understanding, and it is a bit of a shot in the (semi) dark as too how useful it will be. Use of it will also come with continued social distancing, shielding, increased test capacity, flexible and category/area specific lockdown changes among other things.
I'm interested that people are putting some half-understood privacy concerns about this app above its use for limiting the spread of CV and corresponding deaths. What are they suggesting instead? Another app, humans doing the same process, or have they decided track and trace isn't a useful tool?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You'll have to ask them
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Certainly not forcing everyone back to work.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I am moderately intrigued about how the paranoid alt-right will respond to this ...
Last edited:
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
No, totally agree with your comments earlier. Think this is clearly part of a push to open things up as fast as possible, although I don't think that is solely to get people back to work, there's a load of other pressures going on as well.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Surely 15 minutes is far too long a time interval when you can catch it off a shared salt cellar ...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Tbh given what has been done with NHS data already it's well within the bounds of possibility that information from this app won't be quite as anonymous or secure as declared
2hats
Dust.
What it addresses: do-something-itis.
What it doesn't address: fomite transmission.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Certain concerns are better than half-understood. For instance, as pointed out above, this particular government has form in abusing data. That's all too well understood. But whoever is in power, it's naive to think they will set out laws and then obey those laws themselves wrt not using information they happen to have for anything other than the thing they say they'll use it for.
So then we get to proportion, no? Is it proportionate to toss away certain notions of privacy/freedom for this app? Will it even work? Is it needed? Is it the right strategy to focus on this at this point? What else could be done that won't be done? I still haven't heard much of the 20,000-strong trace-and-isolate team yet, for instance. Have I just missed that bit of news, or does the govt think this app will mean they're not needed?
Otherwise, what are we left with?
Something needs to be done. This is something. Therefore this needs to be done.
ska invita
back on the other side
Whats this about there being two different apps, anyone know? And their relation?
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
What pisses me off hugely about ALL this is that in the 21st century, surrounded by ever more amazing technology, in the privileged west, with governments we could actually trust we could by now have been doing this pro-actively.
Why does this have to come to a head with the most obviously vile politicians in charge ?
Those of us who are keen on this sort of thing - like the wearers of Apple watches - are going to be the people who least need the help.
Why does this have to come to a head with the most obviously vile politicians in charge ?
Those of us who are keen on this sort of thing - like the wearers of Apple watches - are going to be the people who least need the help.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I hope there's an alternative one we can trust.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
The human track and trace team are being recruited afaik.
I'm not suggesting any concern around privacy is misplaced, nor that people should just do anything for the reduction in transmission.
I don't know if the app is needed, but I think the fact that most countries are going for some variant on it suggests that maybe as part of a load of measures it might be useful, how useful we'll know in the coming months and years.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
But it South Korea the app was instrumental as part of a package in helping reduce the infection rate? Was that the right app, and we're going to be using the wrong app then?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Response written in complete (technical) ignorance...but could the reason be that the data collected by this 'bespoke' method will 'owned' by the UK state/it's subcontracted entities & eventually be more saleable/valuable when sold on?
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Right that's my vote changed - for political reasons if nothing else.
If Google / Bill Gates / Monsanto / whoever come up with one, I'll go for it.
Hopefully the takeup will be small enough to annoy the govt.
Almost like proxy voting.
I will carry on doing my best to avoid human contact and wearing a mask when I'm in the supermarket.
If Google / Bill Gates / Monsanto / whoever come up with one, I'll go for it.
Hopefully the takeup will be small enough to annoy the govt.
Almost like proxy voting.
I will carry on doing my best to avoid human contact and wearing a mask when I'm in the supermarket.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
This pandemic is making me think about who "The NHS" now are ...
2hats
Dust.
What was instrumental to reducing the infection rate in ROK was widespread, reliable community testing.
As others have said, an app was never meant to be a stand-alone panacea, but to be used from a starting point of low case numbers, alongside the other measures higlighted - physical distancing, mask wearing where the physical distance can't be kept for example in shops and on public transport and hygiene (hand-washing as well as coughing and sneezing etiquette. Don't get me started on lack of communication around that...every freaking time I leave the house someone merrily coughs without covering their mouth next to me, seemingly thinking because they are two metres away they can do that, or more likely not thinking at all...ranty segue over...),and of course testing.
As I understand it, the app is mainly supposed to support the work of the people/public health working on contact tracing, basically to get ahead of the game, and crucially break the chains of infection at the point that a potentially infected person would already have infected another person/persons if they hadn't been notified and asked to isolate pending test results of the person they had been in contact with. These notifications would just not be possible in time if all the work was carried out by actual human beings phoning and asking around, based on an assumed/researched average incubation period of five days.
As I understand it, the app is mainly supposed to support the work of the people/public health working on contact tracing, basically to get ahead of the game, and crucially break the chains of infection at the point that a potentially infected person would already have infected another person/persons if they hadn't been notified and asked to isolate pending test results of the person they had been in contact with. These notifications would just not be possible in time if all the work was carried out by actual human beings phoning and asking around, based on an assumed/researched average incubation period of five days.
mauvais
on reddit or something
I asked my former boss - who's an expert in client-side network decision making - what he thought about this whole thing. He sent me this:
www.forbes.com
It's an interesting read if you're technically minded - some interesting technical ideas too. I think putting some of the most significant things into practice would require big change though - operating system updates and maybe even OEM integrations. That sort of thing doesn't happen quickly, let alone become ubiquitous. You would probably have to supply people with new hardware.
What Apple And Google Need To Do To Make Contact Tracing Trustworthy
How to get Bluetooth-based contact tracing right, to build trust and confidence
www.forbes.com
It's an interesting read if you're technically minded - some interesting technical ideas too. I think putting some of the most significant things into practice would require big change though - operating system updates and maybe even OEM integrations. That sort of thing doesn't happen quickly, let alone become ubiquitous. You would probably have to supply people with new hardware.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That along with a rigorous approach to ppe and infection control.
Cid
Proper break this time
South Korea really isn’t that compliant. I mean their last president is currently in jail. And were she still in charge, I imagine their path through this might have been very different.
mauvais
on reddit or something
For me, this. If you had strict lockdown with minimal human contacts in clean environments, then who you randomly encountered might be valuable. You know, if each person has fleeting contact with only one unknown person each day, and let's say only one in a hundred people is both actively ill with CV19 and circulating in public, then it's a rare enough event to have significance, the total number of alerts issued is low, and it's well worth doing.
But if lockdown is lax and you encounter dozens, hundreds or even thousands of people - because e.g. public transport is still operational - then contacts are swamped, the data is garbage in relation to the risk of transmission and alerts might as well be a constant tone.
You could get to the first scenario by issuing and enforcing a strict lockdown, and then wait a while, but we seem to be moving more and more in the opposite direction.
Similar threads
