Tulse Hill news, chitter chatter and gossip

[madolesance]

I have a colleague who lives on one of the LTN ABC roads and she's also against. She's not a big driver (cycles a lot) but it has massively increased her drive to work. Another colleague has to come through several LTNs on her way into work and it has meant that sometimes it takes her 2 hours to get home for a former 30 minute journey. I have never driven to work - always cycle, but even as a cyclist I'm not sure this has been a great solution. It seems to have created chaos, more pollution and people being in their cars for longer.

On the plus side, more cycle friendly solutions are popping up here and there - such as the white pole things down the side of Brockwell park "cordoning" off the cycle lane. It's not the best example of them as that little stretch of cycle lane is generally ok and lots of people go through the park anyway but I've seen them in Tooting too.

If your colleague who’s journey used to take 30mins choose to cycle (assuming they can) then the journey time would quicker than the motor journey.
The LTNs have been introduced to generally discourage unnecessary car journeys. People’s habits need to change.

 

[gaijingirl]

If your colleague who’s journey used to take 30mins choose to cycle (assuming they can) then the journey time would quicker than the motor journey.
The LTNs have been introduced to generally encourage unnecessary car journeys. People’s habits need to change.

I'm guessing you mean "discourage unnecessary car journeys".

Obviously as a cyclist myself I am well aware that her cycle journey would be/is quicker than her car journey and indeed, she does cycle some days. There are days she can't for various reasons.

I agree with you that habits around this need to change, I'm very much an advocate of cycling. I'm not sure that this is going to achieve that though. I wish I had the answer - I'm just not entirely convinced that this is it.

 

[Smick]

As of Monday a new LTN will be established on all the roads between Tulse Hill and Brixton Hill east to west, and Christchurch to Brixton Water Lane south to north.

Again, I regularly use those roads to avoid the gyratory and Christchurch Road, so it will definitely do what it is meant to and I can see the benefit for those people living in those streets.

 

[Smick]

Re the above, I’ve got a friend who lives in Upper Tulse Hill. To get to Streatham Lidl at present, she goes up Roupell Road and along Christchurch Rd. She will now have to go along UTH to Tulse Hill and then has the choice to turn right, go down the hill, round the gyratory, back up the A205. Or she can go left, down to Brixton Water Lane and up Brixton Hill. Both seem fairly extreme, especially given the already high congestion.

 

[Crispy]

Re the above, I’ve got a friend who lives in Upper Tulse Hill. To get to Streatham Lidl at present, she goes up Roupell Road and along Christchurch Rd. She will now have to go along UTH to Tulse Hill and then has the choice to turn right, go down the hill, round the gyratory, back up the A205. Or she can go left, down to Brixton Water Lane and up Brixton Hill. Both seem fairly extreme, especially given the already high congestion.

Does she have a better reason than convenience to drive there rather than take the bus?

 

[Smick]

Does she have a better reason than convenience to drive there rather than take the bus?

Being unable to fit the week’s shopping under the pram and not wanting to make several journeys. Local convenience stores being too expensive to feed a family. Easier to keep an eye on three kids in a car instead of standing in the mother and buggy area and watching the other two in the seats. Buses at twenty minute intervals which can have an occupied buggy space when they get there.

What are the acceptable reasons to use a car? There are plenty of them on the roads, lots of people own them, but many think they shouldn’t be used at all, not even to get healthy food within their budget to feed young families.

What, if any, use is acceptable to you Crispy ?

 

[Smick]

In other news, Cali Nails has moved to the old Met Police unit. I’m now speculating what will go in between Food & Wine and the Co Op.

 

[editor]

A bit on the LTN: Tulse Hill Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) scheme – full details of forthcoming road restrictions

 

[Cat Fan]

Being unable to fit the week’s shopping under the pram and not wanting to make several journeys. Local convenience stores being too expensive to feed a family. Easier to keep an eye on three kids in a car instead of standing in the mother and buggy area and watching the other two in the seats. Buses at twenty minute intervals which can have an occupied buggy space when they get there.

What are the acceptable reasons to use a car? There are plenty of them on the roads, lots of people own them, but many think they shouldn’t be used at all, not even to get healthy food within their budget to feed young families.

What, if any, use is acceptable to you Crispy ?

Online grocery shopping is a thing. Owning and running a car has a lot of costs so I feel that it would be cheaper to order online than drive regularly to Lidl. Maybe I'm oversimplifying as a non-car owner.

There's also the large Sainsbury's on Brixton Water Lane if the drive to Streatham High Street is too long. Google maps says 3 mins by car vs 7-10 mins for Lidl. I think people may just need time to adapt and they will get used to it.

 

[Winot]

As of Monday a new LTN will be established on all the roads between Tulse Hill and Brixton Hill east to west, and Christchurch to Brixton Water Lane south to north.

Again, I regularly use those roads to avoid the gyratory and Christchurch Road, so it will definitely do what it is meant to and I can see the benefit for those people living in those streets.

What's your journey Smick and do you have any other options? Not pointing the finger, just interested in people's reasons for driving.

What are the acceptable reasons to use a car? There are plenty of them on the roads, lots of people own them, but many think they shouldn’t be used at all, not even to get healthy food within their budget to feed young families.

You ask about 'acceptable' reasons for driving - imo that is the wrong emphasis. LTNs shouldn't be about moral one-upmanship. It's not really about 'acceptability' They are behaviour shifters - they are about making it more convenient to walk/cycle/get the bus than to jump in the car.

An anecdote - I cycle everywhere and always have done, including commuting to work in Zone 1. One day a few years back I was feeling really ill. Would normally have taken the day off but had to go in for a meeting. Instead of cycling/catching tube I drove and parked in massive car park under 1980s office building. God it was so easy! And pleasant! Even as a committed cyclist I was thinking - well, that was nice.

The point is that the free parking under the office, and the clear direct route to work made it easy. Take away the parking (as they are now doing with new offices), make the route in trickier and make me pay congestion charge and it wouldn't have been so nice.

There is no doubt that driving your own car can be much more pleasant than the tube or cycling in the rain. But it's not sustainable for London or the planet. So it's entirely right imo for the state to introduce behaviour modifiers like limits on parking, road pricing and LTNs.

 

[nagapie]

There's also the large Sainsbury's on Brixton Water Lane if the drive to Streatham High Street is too long. Google maps says 3 mins by car vs 7-10 mins for Lidl. I think people may just need time to adapt and they will get used to it.

That is a very overpriced and often poorly stocked Sainsbury's. Shopping in Streatham is much cheaper.

 

[Smick]

What's your journey Smick and do you have any other options? Not pointing the finger, just interested in people's reasons for driving.

To get the kids to school, I use a shortcut which takes me from Tulse Hill then along one of Athlone, Craginair, Claverdale, down Elm Park, Leander, Helix, Arodene, Brixton Hill. It cuts time off going via Brixton Water Lane or Christchurch Road.

I understand that I offer absolutely nothing to those roads other than increasing traffic, making it more dangerous for pedestrians, and causing more difficulty for essential traffic like bin lorries and Royal Mail. I have been consistent throughout in saying that my own use of a car can be seen as taking the piss and I can understand and agree with the LTN. I have used every shortcut, rat run and back road over the past ten years of living here.

Now that I have been working from home, the car journey is not so essential as I don't continue on to work after dropping the kids off so, since school has re-started, we have been walking and scooting in. With the bad weather this week, and the last chance to use the rat runs, I have driven since Wednesday.

For me, the only thing to do is to work out the extra time it will take to use the already congested roads and leave a bit earlier, come back a bit later.

That is a very overpriced and often poorly stocked Sainsbury's. Shopping in Streatham is much cheaper.

Yep, Sainsbury's is expensive to begin with and that is a bad one. As it is smaller, they have less shelf space so don't go with the same offers as bigger shops.

Online grocery shopping is a thing. Owning and running a car has a lot of costs so I feel that it would be cheaper to order online than drive regularly to Lidl. Maybe I'm oversimplifying as a non-car owner.

Personally, I only shop at Lidl or Aldi. I think online shopping is very expensive, or at least has been when I have looked at it. You would be cheaper to get a cab to Lidl and do your shopping there than to start into online shopping, but that will have the issues of the extra mileage and traffic. And cost more as a result.

There's also the large Sainsbury's on Brixton Water Lane if the drive to Streatham High Street is too long. Google maps says 3 mins by car vs 7-10 mins for Lidl. I think people may just need time to adapt and they will get used to it.

The LTN doesn't start until Monday. Your 7-10 minutes are as things are at present. To get from Hardel Rise round the gyratory can take 7-10 minutes.

 

[Winot]

For me, the only thing to do is to work out the extra time it will take to use the already congested roads and leave a bit earlier, come back a bit later.

How slow would the journey need to be to persuade you to walk/scooter during the winter?

 

[Smick]

How slow would the journey need to be to persuade you to walk/scooter during the winter?

If it’s not raining, and I’m working from home, we will walk it anyway because it is enjoyable.

The walk takes about thirty minutes, the drive takes ten. So I guess if it added 20 minutes to the drive but kept us out of the rain, I’d be likely to drive. And coming home from the school run isn’t quite such an issue as there isn’t a deadline.

One big gripe I have is the lack of a bus between Tulse Hill Station and the top of Brixton Hill. If we could get on a bus beside the Co-Op and get off at the Crown and Sceptre, public transport would be more of an option. TFL have decided that those who want to go from Tulse Hill to Brixton Hill want to do so via Brixton. Or to Streatham, that they want to wait for the P13 and hope that there is space.

 

[Cat Fan]

To get the kids to school, I use a shortcut which takes me from Tulse Hill then along one of Athlone, Craginair, Claverdale, down Elm Park, Leander, Helix, Arodene, Brixton Hill. It cuts time off going via Brixton Water Lane or Christchurch Road.

I understand that I offer absolutely nothing to those roads other than increasing traffic, making it more dangerous for pedestrians, and causing more difficulty for essential traffic like bin lorries and Royal Mail. I have been consistent throughout in saying that my own use of a car can be seen as taking the piss and I can understand and agree with the LTN. I have used every shortcut, rat run and back road over the past ten years of living here.

Now that I have been working from home, the car journey is not so essential as I don't continue on to work after dropping the kids off so, since school has re-started, we have been walking and scooting in. With the bad weather this week, and the last chance to use the rat runs, I have driven since Wednesday.

For me, the only thing to do is to work out the extra time it will take to use the already congested roads and leave a bit earlier, come back a bit later.



Yep, Sainsbury's is expensive to begin with and that is a bad one. As it is smaller, they have less shelf space so don't go with the same offers as bigger shops.



Personally, I only shop at Lidl or Aldi. I think online shopping is very expensive, or at least has been when I have looked at it. You would be cheaper to get a cab to Lidl and do your shopping there than to start into online shopping, but that will have the issues of the extra mileage and traffic. And cost more as a result.



The LTN doesn't start until Monday. Your 7-10 minutes are as things are at present. To get from Hardel Rise round the gyratory can take 7-10 minutes.

All fair points. There are some cheaper supermarkets that do delivery, but the minimum order size can make it harder if sticking to the cheap/own brand stuff.

More to the point I guess encouraging fewer car trips, whether that's shopping trips or school runs is the way to go for the future if we want walking/cycling around the borough to be less stressful.

 

[Cat Fan]

If it’s not raining, and I’m working from home, we will walk it anyway because it is enjoyable.

The walk takes about thirty minutes, the drive takes ten. So I guess if it added 20 minutes to the drive but kept us out of the rain, I’d be likely to drive. And coming home from the school run isn’t quite such an issue as there isn’t a deadline.

One big gripe I have is the lack of a bus between Tulse Hill Station and the top of Brixton Hill. If we could get on a bus beside the Co-Op and get off at the Crown and Sceptre, public transport would be more of an option. TFL have decided that those who want to go from Tulse Hill to Brixton Hill want to do so via Brixton. Or to Streatham, that they want to wait for the P13 and hope that there is space.

Yeah, it is a bit mind boggling why there are no buses that go up the South circular between Tulse Hill station and Clapham. Bus transport ends up replicating the routes well served by other modes of transport like train, instead of the routes people use cars for.

 

[Crispy]

The 201 gets you closest, stopping at Upper Tulse HIll, Christchurch an Telford Ave. 4 per hour and never rammed IME.

 

[technical]

The 201 gets you closest, stopping at Upper Tulse HIll, Christchurch an Telford Ave. 4 per hour and never rammed IME.

Yes - 201 does travel between Tulse Hill and Brixton Hill/South Circular junction at the Crown & Sceptre, if by a slightly roundabout route.

I've never really understood why there isn't a bus service on the S Circular - somebody once said to me the railway bridge at Tulse Hill is the problem, but the 201 and P13 use smaller buses but then only use the S Circular for short stretches. Something that got you from Clapham S/Brixton Hill to Dulwich/Forest Hill etc would be a useful service surely.

 

[Crispy]

Yes - 201 does travel between Tulse Hill and Brixton Hill/South Circular junction at the Crown & Sceptre, if by a slightly roundabout route.

I've never really understood why there isn't a bus service on the S Circular - somebody once said to me the railway bridge at Tulse Hill is the problem, but the 201 and P13 use smaller buses but then only use the S Circular for short stretches. Something that got you from Clapham S/Brixton Hill to Dulwich/Forest Hill etc would be a useful service surely.

Heartily agree. It would be very useful indeed.

 

[Smick]

Yes - 201 does travel between Tulse Hill and Brixton Hill/South Circular junction at the Crown & Sceptre, if by a slightly roundabout route.

I've never really understood why there isn't a bus service on the S Circular - somebody once said to me the railway bridge at Tulse Hill is the problem, but the 201 and P13 use smaller buses but then only use the S Circular for short stretches. Something that got you from Clapham S/Brixton Hill to Dulwich/Forest Hill etc would be a useful service surely.

I have seen buses out of service come round the South Circular, so they definitely can travel along it safely. I saw a full size private coach come down Palace Road today.

There should be nothing stopping a bus coming from West Norwood then continuing straight at the Co Op stop and servicing Clapham and Brixton from there. The railway bridge might be a problem for going eastwards, but certainly not westwards.

I think walking would be quicker than taking the 201 from the Co Op to the top of Brixton Hill. It's useful for those with mobility issues, but not designed for moving large numbers of people.

 

[Kingsmead_lurke]

Looks like the TH station is going to get it's new canopy on platform 2/3. Massive crane set up ready to swing the pre-assembled peice over. Taken over a year to get here

 

[ViolentPanda]

To get the kids to school, I use a shortcut which takes me from Tulse Hill then along one of Athlone, Craginair, Claverdale, down Elm Park, Leander, Helix, Arodene, Brixton Hill. It cuts time off going via Brixton Water Lane or Christchurch Road.

I understand that I offer absolutely nothing to those roads other than increasing traffic, making it more dangerous for pedestrians, and causing more difficulty for essential traffic like bin lorries and Royal Mail. I have been consistent throughout in saying that my own use of a car can be seen as taking the piss and I can understand and agree with the LTN. I have used every shortcut, rat run and back road over the past ten years of living here.

Now that I have been working from home, the car journey is not so essential as I don't continue on to work after dropping the kids off so, since school has re-started, we have been walking and scooting in. With the bad weather this week, and the last chance to use the rat runs, I have driven since Wednesday.

For me, the only thing to do is to work out the extra time it will take to use the already congested roads and leave a bit earlier, come back a bit later.



Yep, Sainsbury's is expensive to begin with and that is a bad one. As it is smaller, they have less shelf space so don't go with the same offers as bigger shops.



Personally, I only shop at Lidl or Aldi. I think online shopping is very expensive, or at least has been when I have looked at it. You would be cheaper to get a cab to Lidl and do your shopping there than to start into online shopping, but that will have the issues of the extra mileage and traffic. And cost more as a result.



The LTN doesn't start until Monday. Your 7-10 minutes are as things are at present. To get from Hardel Rise round the gyratory can take 7-10 minutes.

Sainsbury, as with a lot of other supermarkets, uses "local pricing" for smaller stores & express/metro-type stores. This means that prices for some goods - especially fresh stuff - can be 10%+ higher than in larger stores.

 

[madolesance]

Sainsbury, as with a lot of other supermarkets, uses "local pricing" for smaller stores & express/metro-type stores. This means that prices for some goods - especially fresh stuff - can be 10%+ higher than in larger stores.

And can be very selective about what their algorithm tells them what to stock.

 

[Nanker Phelge]

It's been nice to catch up on the local traffic and supermarket news.

 

[editor]

A little harsh?

 

[Ryan2468]

Wouldn't really argue that was a nonsensical bus lane. Short yes, but it does lead into a bus stop just after the brow of the hill so buses have a clear path. Also not sure how bus lanes would be effective without enforcement - arguments about revenues for Lambeth aside - but there you go. Seems like on this occasion he was only in it for a short time so feels like there is grounds to appeal as people in the comments have said.

 

[Crispy]

If he was doing 20 uphill, he should have had plenty of time to stop.
EDIT: Having a hard time working out where the obstructing car came from...

 

[Ryan2468]

yeah there's that too. Cars have brakes!

 

[T & P]

A little harsh?

If it is really as reported in the Tweet, the fine was incorrectly issued. You are allowed to enter and travel on a bus lane for up to nine metres during restricted hours to circumnavigate a stationary vehicle on your lane. At least it used to be like that.

It might be the case that the offending vehicle drove too many metres on the bus lane. But if was clear they entered the bus lane to avoid the obstacle and then exited it, to issue a fine because they used, say, 20 or 30 metres of bus lane instead of the regulation 9 metres, then yes it is not only harsh but a cunt’s trick.

I know all of this because many years ago I was issued a fine in similar circumstances. I measured on Google Maps the length of my bus lane incursion (I could tell exactly where I exited it because it was at a left turn junction), and I it was about 15- 18 metres. The fine was technically legal, but it takes a card-carrying cunt to observe such event in your monitor in your cosy Lambeth CCTV room and decide to fine anyone for it.

 

[Crispy]

yeah there's that too. Cars have brakes!

Not to mention the lights were turning red, so what did he even gain?