Being a massive Dylan fan, I have read lots about how that Waits is just as good, if not better. Thought I would listen - can't get on with him. Seems a bit...false. Can't put my finger on why. Like it's a big act and it comes out in the lyrics and the music. But I will listen to him more, etc. What does everyone think of Waits?
Tom Waits - your opinions?
- Thread starter Vider
- Start date
I don't mind inauthenticity if it sounds authentic - but with waits, from what i've heard, it's like he thinks he's a kerouac/lonesome blues/hobo thing. but he's not. or maybe he is. but that's all old now, surely. that's all gone into the definition of cliche, surely? i don't know.
elbows
Well-Known Member
What stuff have you been listening to? His music changed direction rather a lot in the early 80's, away from more ballads towards the strange. I love his voice, I prefer his weirder stuff, questions of his authenticity have seldom entered my mind for he is a character in more ways than one and that does not seem to me to be at odds with the music he makes.
Spion
I hear ya
Unlike Dylan, who's a real original who didn't mimic anyone, oh no sir *chuckle*
but pulled it off. that's the difference!
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Is it. I'll try to remember that.
maomao
普費斯
IYHO of course. I can't stand Dylan, he's a whinging fake who can't hold a tune. Waits is far more talented.
elbows
Well-Known Member
He gets bonus points for not letting his songs be used in adverts and even suing companies for using imitators.
Authenticity exists on many levels and the way I personally judge these things he is up there in my top 10 authentic creators of music.
I think I read that he is a bit embarrassed about his earlier works so if you asked him then maybe he would not think those songs reflect the real Tom Waits, but what exactly is he supposed to be in your mind that he is not? Considering how many different influences most people have, tying him to a genre and then complaining that he doesnt fit that mould seems strange.
Authenticity exists on many levels and the way I personally judge these things he is up there in my top 10 authentic creators of music.
I think I read that he is a bit embarrassed about his earlier works so if you asked him then maybe he would not think those songs reflect the real Tom Waits, but what exactly is he supposed to be in your mind that he is not? Considering how many different influences most people have, tying him to a genre and then complaining that he doesnt fit that mould seems strange.
I am sure one of his songs was used on an advert at some point. With his permission I mean.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I cannot rule it out but Id need proof, as there is quite a history of him refusing commercial stuff and going to court over imitators, and winning. Maybe you heard an imitation or maybe there has been an exception but I got the idea that he has something against his music in commercials in general.
His song 'God's away on business' worked well as part of the soundtrack to that Enron documentary
TruXta
tired
Well, Dylan's not had a good album since Waits started recording, IMO, so I'd have to go with Waits just for that reason. 60's Dylan = brilliant, but his post mid-70s output is fairly fucking awful. A fate he shares with plenty of his fellow travellers from the 60s, mind you. Look at Neil Young and Johnny Cash, some of the stuff they did in the 80s were beyond shit, although they did pick up again in latter years, Cash especially so.
As to the authenticity argument - in my experience this is a rhetorical device employed to dismiss artists that you don't like pure and simple (and nothing wrong with disregarding music based on simple likes and dislikes) in a way that sounds intellectually mature. YMMV.
I think Waits is much more aware of, or possibly plays up his characters, his role-playing a lot more than Dylan ever did. The fact that a good few of Waits' albums (The Black Rider, Alice, Franks Wild Years, Blood Money) have been composed for the theatrical stage probably strenghtens this supposition.
As to the authenticity argument - in my experience this is a rhetorical device employed to dismiss artists that you don't like pure and simple (and nothing wrong with disregarding music based on simple likes and dislikes) in a way that sounds intellectually mature. YMMV.
I think Waits is much more aware of, or possibly plays up his characters, his role-playing a lot more than Dylan ever did. The fact that a good few of Waits' albums (The Black Rider, Alice, Franks Wild Years, Blood Money) have been composed for the theatrical stage probably strenghtens this supposition.
fogbat
The Talibum
Ron Waits
Tom Perlman
I'm glad I'm not the only one to think so.
Perlman's a shoe-in for the Sons of Lee Marvin
dylans
overlord of all acorns
It doesn't have to be "either-or" though, does it?. I listen to both.
However I'm curious as to exactly what you think is "fake" about Dylan? i am hearing this more and more and it saddens me and makes me curious.
50 years performing. Over 50 albums. over 800 original tracks. Some of the most powerful lyrics ever written. Some of the most original and significant songs in the history of music, and the man is still going?
Dylan's entire career has been defined by his refusal to bend to the expectations and demands of others. Love him or hate him there is nothing fake about Bob.
I love Tom Waits too. He has produced some absolutely unique work and he never fails to surprise and amuse. "Small Change" is a fantastic album. "Closing Time" too. The deep throat, mad experimental stuff takes a little getting used to but full points for originality.
But no one and nothing can compare with the musical legend that is Bob Dylan. He is the poet genius of the 2oth century.
There really is no arguing with the lyrical genius of tracks like "Masters Of War"(perhaps the most powerful anti-war song ever written) or the strange dreamy surrealism of "Isis" or the passion of "Jokerman" or "Tangled Up In Blue." The list just goes on and on and on.
His music make me glad to be alive.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Heaven forbid someone should plough their own furrow.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Waits is a far superior musician/composer to Dylan. At his best he certainly comes close to Dylan as a songwriter too.
Happily we do not live in some retarted world where I have to choose between them
Happily we do not live in some retarted world where I have to choose between them
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