The Wire comes to BBC2 (Spoiler free, please)

[Gingerman]

He looked like he'd had the crap beaten out of him... all cuts n' bruises on his face.

Always seem to be getting the crap beaten outa him

 

[El Sueno]

It doesn't matter.

What matters is that he was one of the victims of hamsterdam in one way or another. One of those who fell through the gaps. Nameless.

Yup... there was always gonna be a downside, what was so remarkable is the way Colvin made it seem like such a fucking great idea to begin with.

 

[London_Calling]

It wasn't a great idea?

Who didn't it work for - the police with less drug crime having more time for other crime, the residents with no drug dealers on their corners, the court system able to do its job better, the health care industry who could better target users, the social case system able to better target problem children?

Or the politicians?

 

[SpookyFrank]

It wasn't a great idea?

Who didn't it work for - the police with less drug crime having more time for other crime, the residents with no drug dealers on their corners, the court system able to do its job better, the health care industry who could better target users, the social case system able to better target problem children?

Or the politicians?

It didn't work out too well for the junkies, or perhaps it did work out too well for them. When Bubbles meets Colvin in the series 3 finale he tells him about how users could be free of hassle from both dealers and police in the free zones. He didn't say whether he thought that was a good thing or not.

It's all so cleverly handled. You can't help but sympathise with Colvin for most of the series, but then that bastard Carcetti makes his big speech and suddenly you feel like the whole idea really was completely wrong. Carcetti's such a brilliant anti-hero because he's always saying the right things for entirely the wrong reasons. You agree with him and hate his guts at the same time, because you get to see how everything he says in public is planned and crafted beforehand to get him and his mates more power.

 

[London_Calling]

Yep, it sets up the decriminalisation debate - which is not, of course, the legalisation debate.

Agree, Carcetti is a smartly crafted character.

 

[isitme]

i like carcetti. he's another mcnulty, total bastard but totally neccesary. he really reminds me of one of my best friends. he's realistic, if there were enough cops like bunny, lester etc then their ideas would work, but they won't cos there aren't

 

[DotCommunist]

i like carcetti. he's another mcnulty, total bastard but totally neccesary. he really reminds me of one of my best friends. he's realistic, if there were enough cops like bunny, lester etc then their ideas would work, but they won't cos there aren't

Carcetti has that level of self belief that drags others in his wake.

 

[Madusa]

I'm not quite getting Carcetti's role yet...

Lester looks like my dad, lol

 

[Fedayn]

Yep, it sets up the decriminalisation debate - which is not, of course, the legalisation debate.

Agree, Carcetti is a smartly crafted character.

Carcetti is, to me, an example of bad casting with a nod to make sure it's a 'brit' actor playing him. The name is obviously Italian-American and yet the accent is clearly Irish-American, why make such a glaring mistake?

 

[Madusa]

Carcetti is, to me, an example of bad casting with a nod to make sure it's a 'brit' actor playing him. The name is obviously Italian-American and yet the accent is clearly Irish-American, why make such a glaring mistake?

heh. His accent isnt even consistant.

 

[Fedayn]

Carcetti has that level of self belief that drags others in his wake.

Fame driven demagogue.

 

[London_Calling]

Carcetti is, to me, an example of bad casting with a nod to make sure it's a 'brit' actor playing him. The name is obviously Italian-American and yet the accent is clearly Irish-American, why make such a glaring mistake?

The actor is Irish, fwiw.

I suspect, from an acting pov, most actors can sustain an accent through several minutes of dialogue spread over a 2 hour film - which is what it boils down to. This is obviously of a different magnitude. Imo, the only one who comes close to consistency is our man from Hackney.

I don't know national or regional politics well enough to understand why they chose a name with Italian heritage, though I can't recall that heritage ever being invoked at any stage.

Of course the Police Dept is always Irish anyway.

 

[DotCommunist]

Fame driven demagogue.

aye.

he believes his own spiel I reckon.

 

[isitme]

maybe he's irish american with an italian american dad

 

[SpookyFrank]

I suspect, from an acting pov, most actors can sustain an accent through several minutes of dialogue spread over a 2 hour film - which is what it boils down to. This is obviously of a different magnitude. Imo, the only one who comes close to consistency is our man from Hackney.

McNulty's accent is pretty consistent IMO. And in series 2 he did a brilliant 'American doing a shit British accent' accent that must be so hard for a real British person to do.

 

[llion]

I found Aiden Gillen's/Carcetti's accent more strange in last week's Freefall on BBC2, and I think he was sticking with his own accent in that! It seems to have gone a bit mid-Atlantic. One of my fave bits in the whole of the Wire is when McNulty has to pretend to do an English accent in series 2 - you can tell that the actor playing Freeman really wants to laugh in this scene!

 

[DotCommunist]

heh we are getting int

Spoiler: prez

beard tonight

Beards as a sign of instability flip reversed for stability

 

[SpookyFrank]

Series 4 starts tonight? Fuck yeah, I thought it was gonna be another three week wait

 

[Fedayn]

The actor is Irish, fwiw.

I suspect, from an acting pov, most actors can sustain an accent through several minutes of dialogue spread over a 2 hour film - which is what it boils down to. This is obviously of a different magnitude. Imo, the only one who comes close to consistency is our man from Hackney.

I don't know national or regional politics well enough to understand why they chose a name with Italian heritage, though I can't recall that heritage ever being invoked at any stage.

Of course the Police Dept is always Irish anyway.

Yeah I know he's Irish, pretty good in most things i've seen. However in this instance is a glaringly stupid casting and given the detail has been so well observed in the other programmes it just seems bizarre thay'd make such a fuck-up in this case.

 

[London_Calling]

I guess the Irish/Italian thing is met by the overriding references to a young, thrusting Catholic politician.

Which brings us onto the issue of the relationship between him and his wife, which is quite interesting; very moral in some ways, yet a cold, unpleasant piece of work as well.

 

[DotCommunist]

It doesn't matter.

What matters is that he was one of the victims of hamsterdam in one way or another. One of those who fell through the gaps. Nameless.

that is grim.

I hear property in certain ares of Bodymore is cheap. No idea why.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I guess the Irish/Italian thing is met by the overriding references to a young, thrusting Catholic politician.

Which brings us onto the issue of the relationship between him and his wife, which is quite interesting; very moral in some ways, yet a cold, unpleasant piece of work as well.

If you can call fucking your assistant on the side, 'moral'.

 

[mhendo]

Carcetti is, to me, an example of bad casting with a nod to make sure it's a 'brit' actor playing him. The name is obviously Italian-American and yet the accent is clearly Irish-American, why make such a glaring mistake?

Because it's not a glaring mistake.

Irish and Italian immigrant groups have been prominent in America's big eastern cities since the middle of the nineteenth century, and they don't always just marry within the group. Not only that, but the fact that these two groups have formed the backbone of America's Catholic community means that there has been plenty of fraternization between Irish and Italian Americans.

The idea of someone with an Italian surname being Irish-American, or someone with an Irish surname having an Italian-American family line, is not at all unusual.

My wife, going back only three generations, can trace ancestors directly to France, Italy, and Spain. She happens to have been born with the Spanish surname, but that's just because of how the marriages and name changes worked out. Her mother's maiden name is clearly Italian, and her mother's mother's maiden name is clearly French.

Edit:

If you want another literary/entertainment reference to an Irishman in an Italian-American context, look at the Tom Hagen character in Mario Puzo's The Godfather.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's funny. The Wire is a series I didn't enjoy much, but thanks to the various discussion on here, and my resulting research, it's probably the series that I know the most about.

 

[London_Calling]

Johnny Canuck2 - Re #1432: There are no spoilers in this thread ahead of the BBC schedule. Some courtesy, please.

 

[Fedayn]

Because it's not a glaring mistake.

Irish and Italian immigrant groups have been prominent in America's big eastern cities since the middle of the nineteenth century, and they don't always just marry within the group. Not only that, but the fact that these two groups have formed the backbone of America's Catholic community means that there has been plenty of fraternization between Irish and Italian Americans.

The idea of someone with an Italian surname being Irish-American, or someone with an Irish surname having an Italian-American family line, is not at all unusual.

My wife, going back only three generations, can trace ancestors directly to France, Italy, and Spain. She happens to have been born with the Spanish surname, but that's just because of how the marriages and name changes worked out. Her mother's maiden name is clearly Italian, and her mother's mother's maiden name is clearly French.

I am aware of their prominence but that's not the issue here.
It's rather unusual here because he's clearly, with his accent, not from a long line of Irish Americans but an Irish man ion America, rather unsusually with an Italian surname.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Johnny Canuck2 - There are no spoilers in this thread ahead of the BBC schedule. Some courtesy, please.

What did I spoil?

 

[mhendo]

I am aware of their prominence but that's not the issue here.
It's rather unusual here because he's clearly, with his accent, not from a long line of Irish Americans but an Irish man ion America, rather unsusually with an Italian surname.

That's not clear to me at all. I've heard plenty of second- and third-generation Americans talk like him.

 

[Sunspots]

If you want another literary/entertainment reference to an Irishman in an Italian-American context, look at the Tom Hagen character in Mario Puzo's The Godfather.

Goodfellas too, of course.

De Niro plays an Irish American, Ray Liotta plays an Irish/Italian American, and Joe Pesci and Paul Sorvino play Italian Americans.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I am aware of their prominence but that's not the issue here.
It's rather unusual here because he's clearly, with his accent, not from a long line of Irish Americans but an Irish man ion America, rather unsusually with an Italian surname.

Another alternative is that the actor is doing a shit job with the accent.