The Wire comes to BBC2 (Spoiler free, please)

[goldenecitrone]

That one surprised the fuck out of me n mrs b when we saw it. A literally jaw dropping moment. What a fucking series.

I remember when I first saw that scene, too. Like a punch to the throat. I was wondering about the ramifications for ages and I got it all totally wrong.

 

[Crispy]

And it takes so long to finally play out. I love that about this show

 

[London_Calling]

I suppose because of the strong court room set-piece and the ending, it's sometimes overlooked at how strong was this (19th) hour for women with Beadie Russell, Elana McNulty, the strip bar dancer, Kima and girlfriend and Eileen Nathan all stepping up.

I also like how it stands up to scrutiny, no matter how close you look. For example, there was a full Detail sit-down at the very beginning of this hour and it was decided they'd look at four angles. You then see Kima and Prez at one angle, Lester and Beadie at another, Herc and Carver doing their thing, etc - you're not slapped in the face with any of it. I suppose it's creative 'integrity'.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

That one surprised the fuck out of me n mrs b when we saw it. A literally jaw dropping moment. What a fucking series.

Come on, it was obvious he was going to get killed, I just expected him to get shanked.

 

[London_Calling]

Two completely different stories sharing screen time though; absolutely nothing links the Barksdale gang with Sobotka and the Docks.

 

[belboid]

Really? You must have missed several characters and rather important plotlines then

 

[Crispy]

I think there's a 'yet' missing from the end of that sentence. Anyway, this is drifting towards FUTURE TALK, so be careful!

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Two completely different stories sharing screen time though; absolutely nothing links the Barksdale gang with Sobotka and the Docks.

As of yet, we've seen Nicko talking to the fat guy and how they've poisoned the well there with the package, he could take the H to that crew but there's bad blood there. The competition might give a better rate, thus opens the Barksdale crew.

I want to know how McNutty gets back into the game.

No spoiler tags as i'm just guessing.

 

[London_Calling]

I'm not drifting into the future. Just exploring the narrative arcs as they are in hour 19.

 

[Crispy]

Good good I want to see newbies playing the guessing game

 

[belboid]

Well, it is bloody obvious what the links between Sobotka and the Barksdale gang are, even if they haven't been explicitly shown yet (and i think there has been some mention of the link from the gang, albeit not explicitly yet)

 

[London_Calling]

It might be obvious to you but, fwiw, I use the show as a writing aid and mechanically speaking it matters what happens when and how. There are no links in hour 19 between the two (as best I understand), although we (the audience) think we know how this kind of story will pan out and make assumptions.

It is interesting that David Simon includes assumed responses (of the audience) in the direction of storylines. He second-guesses where we expect the story to go and if you're doing that as a writer you can't be wrong else the story doesn't make sense.

It's like the person above saying they want to know how McNulty gets back into the gig - that kind of comment is based on how this kind of story always plays out. Except sometimes - as with D'Angelo - it doesn't.

 

[belboid]

couldn't give a toss how you think you use the show but I stil lthink you are wrong. There is no direct link shown yet, but there have been one step removes, and it is, imo, absolutely bloody obvious what the link is.

 

[London_Calling]

Why don't you share with us the one-step removed links - as of hour 19 ?

 

[belboid]

Sobotka has been informed of what other items come in through the docks in the conatiners, including drugs. Nick has met with Cheese and Prop Joe to discuss problems with drug deals. There is an obvious connect. We know the Barksdales get their gear from someone who is, in all probability, importing it. Now okay, 2+2 won't always equal 4, but it's a pretty bloody good guess that it will.

 

[isitme]

It might be obvious to you but, fwiw, I use the show as a writing aid and mechanically speaking it matters what happens when and how. There are no links in hour 19 between the two (as best I understand), although we (the audience) think we know how this kind of story will pan out and make assumptions.

It is interesting that David Simon includes assumed responses (of the audience) to the direction of storylines. He second-guesses where we expect the story to go and if you're doing that as a writer you can't be wrong else the story doesn't make sense.

It's like the person above saying they want to know how McNulty gets back into the gig - that kind of comment is based on how this kind of story always plays out. Except sometimes - as with D'Angelo - it doesn't.

i think mcnulty is the least believable character.

he really wouldn't get asked back to special crimes again and again, they just keep him on cos he is meant to be the cipher for the plot. daniels hates him but keeps sticking up for him cos he sees the good in him, but he wouldn't in real life under that much pressure stick up for someone who fucks him over who he doesn't like anyway

i don't think those two would respect each other in real life like they do in the TV show

 

[Refused as fuck]

You're forgetting that Americans are idiots. makes it much more believable.

 

[8den]

Sobotka has been informed of what other items come in through the docks in the conatiners, including drugs. Nick has met with Cheese and Prop Joe to discuss problems with drug deals. There is an obvious connect. We know the Barksdales get their gear from someone who is, in all probability, importing it. Now okay, 2+2 won't always equal 4, but it's a pretty bloody good guess that it will.

No sorry you're wrong. We've seen D'Angelo get lifted on his way back with the Barksdale package, from New York at the end of season one(remember they needed a massive emergency Re up after Baltimore PD raided in the main stashhouse in the aftermath of Kema's shooting). And we've seen Bodie make the delivery from Philly in the van.

So it's been made abundantly clear thats the Barksdale Package is not coming through the Baltimore docks.

 

[London_Calling]

Nicko talking to the fat guy.

Proposition Joe, manager of the east side basketball team of course.

And you are a "cadaverous motherfucker"

 

[8den]

i think mcnulty is the least believable character.

he really wouldn't get asked back to special crimes again and again, they just keep him on cos he is meant to be the cipher for the plot. daniels hates him but keeps sticking up for him cos he sees the good in him, but he wouldn't in real life under that much pressure stick up for someone who fucks him over who he doesn't like anyway

i don't think those two would respect each other in real life like they do in the TV show

I think the thing about Mc Nulty is that Daniels has grudging respect for Mc Nulty. McNulty wants to make the case, fuck the games, fuck the politics, when Daniels is career police. Mc Nulty was a gapping asshole all throughout season 1, but he was ultimately right, they didn't land anything on Avon Barksdale with some street rips, Mc Nulty was proven right, he just went about getting it the wrong way. The thing is, if Mc Nulty hadn't been such a dick, and made such a fuss, they'd never have gotten anywhere near Avon.

 

[London_Calling]

No sorry you're wrong. We've seen D'Angelo get lifted on his way back with the Barksdale package, from New York at the end of season one(remember they needed a massive emergency Re up after Baltimore PD raided in the main stashhouse in the aftermath of Kema's shooting). And we've seen Bodie make the delivery from Philly in the van.

So it's been made abundantly clear thats the Barksdale Package is not coming through the Baltimore docks.

I think what happened was Philly was a dry run but Avon did manage to make a short-term arrangement with Atlanta. This came to light when his sister/D's mother went to visit him and made it clear they were "on scraps". She comfirms the arrangement in a word at a later visit.

That short-term deal is what's keeping them going at the moment. Atlanta hasn't been explored and only mentioned once.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

I think what happened was Philly was a dry run but Avon did manage to make a short-term arrangement with Atlanta. This came to light when his sister/D's mother went to visit him and made it clear they were "on scraps". She comfirms the arrangement in a word at a later visit.

That short-term deal is what's keeping them going at the moment. Atlanta hasn't been explored and only mentioned once.

Where were they going in the first episode with the car, i know it was out of Baltimore, which implies a land connection.

 

[8den]

I think what happened was Philly was a dry run but Avon did manage to make a short-term arrangement with Atlanta. This came to light when his sister/D's mother went to visit him and made it clear they were "on scraps". She comfirms the arrangement in a word at a later visit.

That short-term deal is what's keeping them going at the moment. Atlanta hasn't been explored and only mentioned once.

I agree, but we're in the suburbs of spoilertown here.

 

[London_Calling]

Where were they going in the first episode with the car, i know it was out of Baltimore, which implies a land connection.

Bodie in the van with the radio fading? Philly. He changes into a car (not literally, it's not Heros ) when they get there.

Remember the big post-mortem about 3/10ths of a mile and Bodie shitting himself explaining what happened to Stringer? No drugs intended, a dry run.

 

[isitme]

I think the thing about Mc Nulty is that Daniels has grudging respect for Mc Nulty. McNulty wants to make the case, fuck the games, fuck the politics, when Daniels is career police. Mc Nulty was a gapping asshole all throughout season 1, but he was ultimately right, they didn't land anything on Avon Barksdale with some street rips, Mc Nulty was proven right, he just went about getting it the wrong way. The thing is, if Mc Nulty hadn't been such a dick, and made such a fuss, they'd never have gotten anywhere near Avon.

but that's what I mean

like, what you just described could be John Mcclaine or Harry Callaghan 'goddamn this paperwork, I'm a cop not a goddamn secretary' 'he doesn't play by the rules, but he always gets results' etc

All of the other characters are believable, but McNulty is pure cop show. Including Daniels grudging respect for him.

 

[London_Calling]

Anti-hero, perhaps?

As opposed to, say, Frank Sobotka's hero?

 

[isitme]

Anti-hero, perhaps?

As opposed to, say, Frank Sobotka's hero?

well frank is a proper anti-hero. same as carver or the boxing guy, or lester or carcetti, fighting an endless battle that you are bound to lose just cos it has to be fought

mcnulty doesn't do that, he is just a plot device

 

[8den]

but that's what I mean

like, what you just described could be John Mcclaine or Harry Callaghan 'goddamn this paperwork, I'm a cop not a goddamn secretary' 'he doesn't play by the rules, but he always gets results' etc

Yeah but it's not like the captain ends up defending him to the chief, and keeping his badge and shield. Mc Nulty constantly suffers, and is set back because the qualities that make the guy Good Police, are the exact qualities that make him a dire human being. Using his kids to spy on Stringer? Drunken Massive fuck ups? Screwing over Rawls? He's a miserable human being with a rotten life, who's only comforts in life is his job and boozing.

All of the other characters are believable, but McNulty is pure cop show. Including Daniels grudging respect for him.

If you stick with it, the Mc Nulty at the end of season 3, and season 4, and season 5, are three very different men.

 

[London_Calling]

Well done the pair of you: Is it so fucking difficult to stay in real time?

 

[belboid]

No sorry you're wrong. We've seen D'Angelo get lifted on his way back with the Barksdale package, from New York at the end of season one(remember they needed a massive emergency Re up after Baltimore PD raided in the main stashhouse in the aftermath of Kema's shooting). And we've seen Bodie make the delivery from Philly in the van.

So it's been made abundantly clear thats the Barksdale Package is not coming through the Baltimore docks.

hmm, i think you are missing something still. but i am glad not to be so totally obsessed as to recall every bleeding detail like that