The Virgin Mary

[Aladdin]

Strictly speaking, they were the words of Jesus.

Strictly...the phrase you used wasn't used before 1530.

I've asked you to stop targeting me.
I've reported your personal attack posts but you're still targeting me personally.
What have I done that was dishonest ? And why have you persisted with this harrassment? Why would you call me "corrupt and wicked"?

I'm pretty sure I never noticed you before this thread. And I know that I'm not corrupt or wicked.
Why would you think I am?

 

[Spandex]

it happened for roughly 400 years when the Romans persecuted the Christians..

The popular idea that Romans were constantly throwing Christians to lions in a non-stop orgy of persecution for hundreds of years isn't really true.

The first persecution was by Nero in AD67, when, according to Tacitus, he blamed Christians for the great fire of Rome and ordered those in the City of Rome put to death. tbf, Nero persecuted everybody, Pagan and Christian.

For the next 182 years there wasn't really any organised persecution of Christians at all. There were sporadic local persecutions that seem to be more about local governors or villagers dealing with awkward followers of the apocalyptic cult spreading amongst slaves and the rural poor that kept making a nuisance of themselves trying to save the souls of those around them. These stepped up during during the reign of Marcus Aurelius (reigned 161–180), but how organised or widespread they were is subject to debate.

The first big persecution came in 249, when Emperor Decius declared that all Romans must burn some incense at their local temple as a sign of loyalty to him, on pain of death. It wasn't specifically targeted at Christians, but the devout refused to make a sacrifice to a false God, preferring to go to heaven a martyr than suffer in the afterlife for worshipping false idols. That led to lots of Christians being put to death. There's records of local governors begging Christians to make the sacrifice to save their lives, but the devout chose martyrdom instead.

His successor Gallus (reigned 251 - 253) is said to have persecuted Chistians, but the only recorded examples are his exiling two popes

Then there seems to have been little persecution for the next 45 years until the reign of Emporor Diocletian (284 -305). During his reign he became focussed on suppressing non-Roman religions and in 303 he issued a series of edicts rescinding Christians' legal rights and demanding that they comply with traditional religious practices. For 3 years there was a purge of Christians in the Roman empire until his son Constantius Chlorus restored Christian's legal rights in 306 during his brief reign.

He was succeeded in 306 by Emperor Constantine, who famously converted to Christianity. From then on Rome increasingly suppressed followers of the old gods. Constantius II (reigned 337 - 361) closed all pagan temples and made pagan sacrifices punishable by death. Theodosius I (379 - 395) abolished all pagan cults and ceremonies, including the Olympic Games.

 

[Aladdin]

The popular idea that Romans were constantly throwing Christians to lions in a non-stop orgy of persecution for hundreds of years isn't really true.

The first persecution was by Nero in AD67, when, according to Tacitus, he blamed Christians for the great fire of Rome and ordered those in the City of Rome put to death. tbf, Nero persecuted everybody, Pagan and Christian.

For the next 182 years there wasn't really any organised persecution of Christians at all. There were sporadic local persecutions that seem to be more about local governors or villagers dealing with awkward followers of the apocalyptic cult spreading amongst slaves and the rural poor that kept making a nuisance of themselves trying to save the souls of those around them. These stepped up during during the reign of Marcus Aurelius (reigned 161–180), but how organised or widespread they were is subject to debate.

The first big persecution came in 249, when Emperor Decius declared that all Romans must burn some incense at their local temple as a sign of loyalty to him, on pain of death. It wasn't specifically targeted at Christians, but the devout refused to make a sacrifice to a false God, preferring to go to heaven a martyr than suffer in the afterlife for worshipping false idols. That led to lots of Christians being put to death. There's records of local governors begging Christians to make the sacrifice to save their lives, but the devout chose martyrdom instead.

His successor Gallus (reigned 251 - 253) is said to have persecuted Chistians, but the only recorded examples are his exiling two popes

Then there seems to have been little persecution for the next 45 years until the reign of Emporor Diocletian (284 -305). During his reign he became focussed on suppressing non-Roman religions and in 303 he issued a series of edicts rescinding Christians' legal rights and demanding that they comply with traditional religious practices. For 3 years there was a purge of Christians in the Roman empire until his son Constantius Chlorus restored Christian's legal rights in 306 during his brief reign.

That's interesting. I think the Romans were particularly threatened by the rise of Christianity until Constantine decided that there was no point in persecuting them and effectively did the "can't beat them so join them" thing.

I think there were other times when Christians were persecuted. And there were times when they did the persecuting. Nobody is claiming they were all good.

Persecution of Christians has been increasing again in recent years. This document was too big so I ended up screenshooting each relevant page and making a quick movie. Each section refers to an individual country where Christianity is suppressed or oppressed and Christians are being punished...some imprisoned and or
View attachment 2024 report.mp4
put to death.

 

[ouirdeaux]

What have I done that was dishonest ? And why have you persisted with this harrassment? Why would you call me "corrupt and wicked"?

This is a good example in itself. I haven't called you corrupt and wicked. Saying that I did is dishonest.

 

[Aladdin]

This is a good example in itself. I haven't called you corrupt and wicked. Saying that I did is dishonest.

I'm not being dishonest ..

You wrote this.

You pretend to be all sweetness and light, but can't resist the sly digs, however unjustified. I believe the biblical term for that sort of hypocrisy is whited sepulchre.

Whited Sepulchre means
"noun. : a person inwardly corrupt or wicked but outwardly or professedly virtuous or holy

^^
thats what you said I was.

Now.. fuck off and stop targeting me personally.

 

[ouirdeaux]

You're ramping up the dishonesty with every post.

 

[Aladdin]

You're ramping up the dishonesty with every post.

Stop.

 

[Spandex]

I think the Romans were particularly threatened by the rise of Christianity until Constantine decided that there was no point in persecuting them and effectively did the "can't beat them so join them" thing.

I'm not sure about that. When Constantine came to power only about 5% of the Roman population were Christian. Christianity was more popular amongst the poor and slaves, offering as it did salvation in the afterlife compared to the shitty lives they lived on earth. I get the impression it was more of an annoyance to Rome, a small relatively powerless group that refused to submit to the rule of emperors when they just had to wait for their glorious afterlife in heaven.

It's possible that Christianity's central place as a world religion is just a quirk of history. Constantine wasn't the first Emperor to convert. Marcus Aurelius Antoninus was a follower of the Sun God Elagabal, but he only ruled Rome for four years (218 - 222) and was too busy being debauched to impose his beliefs on the empire. Constantine ruled for 31 years (306 to 337) and was a reforming administrator, changing the capital of the empire to Constatinople, merging church and state and pushing Christianity on the people. If Marcus Aurelius Antoninus had been as long lived and efficient as Constantine the western world might now be followers of Elagabal; if Constantine had been as debauched and short lived as Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Christianity might now be as forgotten as the Syrian Sun God.

 

[ouirdeaux]

Stop.

Then stop misrepresenting what I've said.

 

[Aladdin]

I'm not sure about that. When Constantine came to power only about 5% of the Roman population were Christian. Christianity was more popular amongst the poor and slaves, offering as it did salvation in the afterlife compared to the shitty lives they lived on earth. I get the impression it was more of an annoyance to Rome, a small relatively powerless group that refused to submit to the rule of emperors when they just had to wait for their glorious afterlife in heaven.

It's possible that Christianity's central place as a world religion is just a quirk of history. Constantine wasn't the first Emperor to convert. Marcus Aurelius Antoninus was a follower of the Sun God Elagabal, but he only ruled Rome for four years (218 - 222) and was too busy being debauched to impose his beliefs on the empire. Constantine ruled for 31 years (306 to 337) and was a reforming administrator, changing the capital of the empire to Constatinople, merging church and state and pushing Christianity on the people. If Marcus Aurelius Antoninus had been as long lived and efficient as Constantine the western world might now be followers of Elagabal; if Constantine had been as debauched and short lived as Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Christianity might now be as forgotten as the Syrian Sun God.

I don't know enough about the Romans but I thought it was a political action or for political reasons that Constantine converted to Christianity?
But on looking it up I came across this..
About Constantines conversion..
The Battle of Milvian Bridge in 312 led directly to Constantine's conversion. Prior to the battle, he prayed to the Christian God and saw a Chi Rho, and the words "in hoc signo vinces," or "by this sign, conquer." He credited his victory to the Christian God."

https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-conversion-of-constantine-and-the-ascent-of-christianity.html#:~:text=What%20event%20led%20to%20the,victory%20to%20the%20Christian%20God.

 

[Aladdin]

Then stop misrepresenting what I've said.

I haven't.
I've quoted your own words to you.

 

[andysays]

I've just realised that ouirdeaux said out loud sounds exactly like "weirdo".

Not sure of it's a coincidence or what...

 

[krtek a houby]

You have always struck me as someone who is well capable of searching for answers?

And you always strike me as someone who wouldn't ally yourself with maniacs like bcuster.

Here we go again...

 

[krtek a houby]

A good way to bother the moderation is to engage in tit for tat arguing with antagonistic provocateurs . I've posted valid links. I'm not doing
a press conference. Read the links or continue on in ignorance

You've posted tonnes of shite without any explanation.

Get to fuck out of it and try harder.

 

[ouirdeaux]

I haven't.
I've quoted your own words to you.

No you fucking didn't. You quoted the first dictionary definition of 'whited sepulchre' that you found (presumably not having recognised the phrase as coming from the Bible) when I highlighted your hypocrisy.

Now you are claiming that I called you 'corrupt and wicked', because those words were used in the Merriam-Webster definition.

Lie upon lie upon lie.

 

[Aladdin]

No you fucking didn't. You quoted the first dictionary definition of 'whited sepulchre' that you found (presumably not having recognised the phrase as coming from the Bible) when I highlighted your hypocrisy.

Now you are claiming that I called you 'corrupt and wicked', because those words were used in the Merriam-Webster definition.

Lie upon lie upon lie.

Would you just stop this and go have a life?

You've targetted me throughout this thread. And you're still at it.

The biblical meaning is even worse.
"the hypocritical religious and community leaders of his time were like whited (whitewashed) tombs. The outside was bright and shiny, but the inside was full of rot and decay"

That's what you've written about me..

Like what the fuck??? Just because you hate Christianity?

 

[Aladdin]

No you fucking didn't. You quoted the first dictionary definition of 'whited sepulchre' that you found (presumably not having recognised the phrase as coming from the Bible) when I highlighted your hypocrisy.

Now you are claiming that I called you 'corrupt and wicked', because those words were used in the Merriam-Webster definition.

Lie upon lie upon lie.

You really are dishonest to the core, aren't you? You pretend to be all sweetness and light, but can't resist the sly digs, however unjustified. I believe the biblical term for that sort of hypocrisy is whited sepulchre.

That's what you wrote.
YOUR words.
You wrote them about me. And used the phrase "whited sepulchre" as a descriptor for me.

Feck off and get a life.

 

[Aladdin]

You know what ouirdeaux?
I'm out.
I've been here 10 years and never had anyone say the things you've said about me.. you don't know me or my life. You know fuck all about me. But I am definitely not dishonest and I am not a person inwardly corrupt or wicked but outwardly or professedly virtuous or holy.. or any other descriptor for Whitened Sepulchre.

The fact you are getting away with the personal abuse is a problem.
This place was open and able to have lots of different posters from all sorts of backgrounds...people with belief systems and ones without.

Your hate for someone you don't know is palpable. You know nothing of me my life or who I am. And you want to tear me to pieces because of your dislike for Christians? I feel sorry for you.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

The millions upon millions of faithful people who travel to Marian shrines around the world or who simply pray the Rosary in their cars on their way to work would disagree with you...

Shrines to Mary, mother of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just because a lot of people do something doesn't mean it's not silly. Look at how many people show up for American football games.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Don't burst bcuster's bubble. He believes in those rabbits.

I'm fine with that. Just don't expect me to believe in it.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Incidentally, the original Jehovah was indeed a lesser God, part of a larger pantheon in the original mythology of the Bronze Age people that worshipped him. He was like Thor or Poseidon or Hermes — the child of the chief God (whose name was El, from whom we get the name “Israel”). That’s why the 10 commandments start off with the importance of not taking other Gods above this God. Jehovah’s followers just managed to win the wars of conquest over the followers of the other Gods and, combined with the PR genius of those commandments, the result was that the other Gods got put to one side.

El (deity) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I found this video interesting. This gentleman counted up how many people god killed himself or ordered killed in the OT. He kept a second list for how many potential kills when the numbers were not specified. The third was the number of people Satan killed. It came out something like 2.5 million kills for god, 24.5 million potential kills for god, with a total of 10 for Satan. Interesting numbers.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

And bound to be popular with the sex-is-bad camp. Which is pretty heavily represented in Christianity, although it's fallen out of mainstream favour now.

Its seems to be on the upswing in the US, with a number of people on the right embracing "conservative" dress for women, anti-birth control, anti-divorce, and anti-abortion.

 

[PTK]

That's interesting. I think the Romans were particularly threatened by the rise of Christianity until Constantine decided that there was no point in persecuting them and effectively did the "can't beat them so join them" thing.

I think there were other times when Christians were persecuted. And there were times when they did the persecuting. Nobody is claiming they were all good.

Persecution of Christians has been increasing again in recent years. This document was too big so I ended up screenshooting each relevant page and making a quick movie. Each section refers to an individual country where Christianity is suppressed or oppressed and Christians are being punished...some imprisoned and or
put to death.

View attachment 444502

That's interesting. I think the Romans were particularly threatened by the rise of Christianity until Constantine decided that there was no point in persecuting them and effectively did the "can't beat them so join them" thing.

I think there were other times when Christians were persecuted. And there were times when they did the persecuting. Nobody is claiming they were all good.

Persecution of Christians has been increasing again in recent years. This document was too big so I ended up screenshooting each relevant page and making a quick movie. Each section refers to an individual country where Christianity is suppressed or oppressed and Christians are being punished...some imprisoned and or
View attachment 444502
put to death.

The page on Cuba does not actually state that Christians are persecuted for practising their religion, though, does it? It states that Christians who criticise the state are subjected to sanctions. Non-Christians who criticise the state are also penalised. It would be dishonest to claim that this is persecution of Christians for being Christians.

In the case of Syria, some Christians have fought back against the Islamist militias, and there were at least two militias based on the Christian community. Many members of minority communities found themselves in a difficult position in Syria. They opposed the repression by the Assad regime, and supported the protests in 2011, but on the other hand the Assad regime did defend the right of minority communities to exist, being itself based on a minority community, the Alawites. One of the Christian militias apparently sometimes fought against the Assad regime forces, and sometimes alongside it against Islamist militias.

 

[PTK]

I meant ever since the Jesus character was doing the rounds.

But the official position is that Jesus was co-eternal with the Father, and uncreated. In the Beginning was the Word, and Word was with God, as "John" wrote. Jesus being the Word. So Jesus was around before he was Born of a Virgin.

 

[krtek a houby]

Though he was retconned, in order to fit into the whole divinity lark.

 

[PTK]

It's taught to all Catholics that Pontius Pilate the Roman Prefect put Jesus to death....not the Jews.

Many Roman Catholics certainly called Jewish people "Christ killers" in the past. (As did members of other Christian denominations). These people did not spontaneously come up with that term of abuse.

In 1965, the Pope said that the Jews should not be blamed for the death of Jesus.

There is a passage in the Gospels that blames the Jewish people for the death of Jesus, and was quoted down the centuries.

Matthew 27:24 and 27:25

“When Pilate saw that he was not succeeding at all, but that a riot was breaking out instead, he took water and washed his hands in the sight of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this man’s blood. Look to it yourselves.”

And the whole people said in reply, “His blood be upon us and upon our children.””