The NIMBY/YIMBY thread

[Cloo]

Have joined my local Nextdoor group, so I’m getting all the local gossip.

Latest word on the street is that there’s a proposal to build a 25-storey residential tower on the site of the tube station car park, which has got people up in arms. I don’t reckon there’s much chance of getting permission for 25 storeys, given there’s nothing remotely that tall anywhere near, but I have no objection to housing there, even potentially quite a tall block, as it’s not like it’s in the middle of a residential street where it alters the character.

People are complaining a lot about parking impact, as it won’t have many spaces, but I think people are also failing to appreciate that urban car ownership is declining pretty steeply, IIRC.

My main problem with it is that it will most likely be one of those inevitably-called-‘luxury’ developments, which won’t provide any of the sort of housing the borough needs (actually ‘affordable’/social). Though it may be a good site for a fully rental development, which would be fine other than that those are usually overpriced as well.

It’s within a wider plan to try and sort out our shit local high street – plans will be displayed in car park area this week, so I need to go take a look, but I’m not against it in principle.

What planning shenanigans are going on round your way?

 

[cupid_stunt]

This monster going up, basically on the beach, here in Worthing.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Let's see, Epping Forest local plan was a giggle.

Masses of houses built mostly on village/town greens and car parks which strikes me as a bit mental. A decent sized development over in Epping. This has prompted a lot of activity from residents against it as you'd imagine.

Strangely the proposal to build (iirc) 300 odd houses in Theydon Bois on mostly unused land was reduced to 57 houses. Strangely the planning officer is resident and councillor for Theydon and I'm almost sure the MP lives around there.

I'd love more housing built myself but I'll never afford one around here, not a fan of building on playing fields at all though.

 

[skyscraper101]

I love Nextdoor. It's all currently kicking off round my way over the Hammersmith Bridge closure. Almost got into a spat with someone after I blamed Boris Johnson and it narked off one of his fans

 

[Johnny Doe]

Cloo EF Station?

 

[Cloo]

Cloo EF Station?

Finchley Central

 

[Artaxerxes]

I love Nextdoor. It's all currently kicking off round my way over the Hammersmith Bridge closure. Almost got into a spat with someone after I blamed Boris Johnson and it narked off one of his fans

Hmm, tempting but it takes a lot of privacy info and won't take my mobile number even after all that.

 

[Leafster]

I've mentioned this before on another thread. The pension fund which owns the local shopping centre wants to redevelop it. Most of the residents round here have no problem with that but they want to add 4 floors of apartments on top which, in the words of the developers, are for "young professionals" with no children and for private rent only (to give the pension fund an income). Not exactly helping with local housing issues.

It will also have extremely limited parking. The developers are using urban examples to explain away the need for parking. However, we are on the edge of suburbia and the only decent public transport goes northwards towards London so if you work anywhere other the London you're stuffed for getting to work. Oh, and the train service into London is already one of the most over-crowded in the south east.

Lastly, as a sop to us residents, they are going to include an underground cinema, in an area prone to flooding. That's going to work well! The supermarket in the shopping centre already has to stand pallets of tinned food over the internal man-hole covers to stop the flood water getting into their store room!

 

[Cloo]

Basically a lot of town centre development is council led at the mo because they are desperate to find ways to bring cash in due to the end of the government grant. I don't hold it against LAs because central government is really fucking them over, but I think a lot of this stuff ends up being about profit that may not materialize over what areas actually need. Which is affordable and social bloody housing

 

[ice-is-forming]

I've mentioned this before on another thread. The pension fund which owns the local shopping centre wants to redevelop it. Most of the residents round here have no problem with that but they want to add 4 floors of apartments on top which, in the words of the developers, are for "young professionals" with no children and for private rent only (to give the pension fund an income). Not exactly helping with local housing issues.

It will also have extremely limited parking. The developers are using urban examples to explain away the need for parking. However, we are on the edge of suburbia and the only decent public transport goes northwards towards London so if you work anywhere other the London you're stuffed for getting to work. Oh, and the train service into London is already one of the most over-crowded in the south east.

Lastly, as a sop to us residents, they are going to include an underground cinema, in an area prone to flooding. That's going to work well! The supermarket in the shopping centre already has to stand pallets of tinned food over the internal man-hole covers to stop the flood water getting into their store room!

Sorry :/ I do take your issue seriously...

 

[8115]

They're looking at building an Easyhotel round my way. We already have a Premier Inn and a Travelodge which do not cause many problems to be fair, except taking up lovely derelict land and (according to the local papers) serving as a centre for drug-dealing. But nearly every house has a no to Easyhotel poster stuck in the window.

 

[Cloo]

Gotta say, people are being surprisingly reasonable about it on Nextdoor - only a few total NIMBYs and quite a lot of people saying the problem is that it inevitably won't be social/affordable as is really needed. One guy very sensibly suggested this is a good opportunity to demand from the developers lots of support for the local area, like maybe make some station regeneration part of the deal. Some people are moaning about loss of car parking spaces, but I'm not honestly sure who needs to drive there for anything more than convenience (bar maybe some disabled commuters?) as it's not like we're the end of the line, and more housing is a more valuable thing than car parking spaces. Perhaps more bus services or a peak-time shuttle bus to key points could replace parking?

Local MP has taken a line of 'This is all Sadiq Khan's idea, we must object', but is asking for local views so he can represent people accurately, so I will respond and suggest it's a good opportunity to do something positive and create housing.

 

[hash tag]

Sorry Cloo But I don't hold out much hope for you. The developers are rich and powerful and the council can't afford to fight them. If the application declined, I suspect the developers will make some tweaks and reapply. It is also lots more council tax for the council and the chance to get a new road or similar being built by the developers.
I have seen this very close to me several times now and each time the boundaries are pushed further and further and I'm in quite a sensitive area.
Apart from parking spaces, there is infrastructure to consider and services.
Right to light, sunshine, a view, privacy...forget it.
sorry to be so hard and cynical but have seen it, several times already and it's not over yet

 

[Voley]

I'm just applying for a development job for a Housing Association. Buying the land, building social housing. I might be on this thread a fair bit if I get it.

 

[Poot]

I'm just applying for a development job for a Housing Association. Buying the land, building social housing. I might be on this thread a fair bit if I get it.

Oooooh! Good luck Voley. That sounds ace!

 

[Voley]

Oooooh! Good luck Voley. That sounds ace!

Thanks. Yes, quite excited about it. Right up my street.

 

[smmudge]

A workmate is always talking about his Nextdoor group and it sounds well exciting, always gossiping and getting into arguments with other people on there. I downloaded it for my area and it's all just people offering gardening or painting and decorating services. Well boring.

 

[Cloo]

Sorry Cloo But I don't hold out much hope for you. The developers are rich and powerful and the council can't afford to fight them.

Dunno about that. The council (rather stupidly, in my opinion) threw out a proposal a much lower tower for being 'out of character' because it was 1 storey taller than a block about 200m away, and that's not been redeveloped since. I'm sure they'll get permission for something and TBH I don't even have much of an objection to a big tower but I know plenty of other people will.

 

[Voley]

A workmate is always talking about his Nextdoor group and it sounds well exciting, always gossiping and getting into arguments with other people on there. I downloaded it for my area and it's all just people offering gardening or painting and decorating services. Well boring.

Just had a look at where I live on it. Fairly convinced that there aren't enough people living here to make it the hotbed of passive aggression I'd demand from such a service. Disappointing.

 

[Poi E]

They're putting up lots of high rises in Croydon and it is improving the skyline.

Have I got the hang of this?

 

[joustmaster]

I live right on the edge of Finsbury Park and Nextdoor is 80% threads about the outrageous noise of "urban" music and the sight of youngsters having fun.

I am really enjoying trolling

 

[hash tag]

They're putting up lots of high rises in Croydon and it is improving the skyline.

Have I got the hang of this?

Croydon has aspirations, above it's station?

 

[Poi E]

No-one said dormitory suburbs can't reach for the sky!

 

[campanula]

Ooooh, had never heard of Nextdoor...but I joined mine and have a couple of gardening requests so it's all good. The area I am in is massively middle class...but in that arty-farty little terraced houses full of creative types (I am in the council estate outlier edge)...and totally perfect for the service I can offer (elderly plantophile on rusty bike seeks consultation work)...

 

[Cloo]

So I went to the consultation about the redevelopment.

It's not the just the carpark, but the whole area around the station - no particular problem with that. The 25-storey tower is proposed on main road - I think that's OTT considering there is nothing over 9 storeys visible from there.

Disproportionate number of people filling in sheets and muttering were over 80, and while I respect my olders and all, they're coming from a very different place from the world where this development would be completed - they're likely to be very car centric and not appreciate that ownership is falling and that I think more people accept non-ownership as price of living by transport hubs; I suspect they don't understand on the whole that places can be made sound proofed and better temperature regulated than they used to be (ie, in theory - dunno about practice - you could have well sound-proofed flats trackside that wouldn't need windows opened) - old near next to me was saying how horrible it would be when a train when by.

We're still left with the basic problem that we are sticking loads more people in city where the transport system can already barely cope and you already can't get on the tube past zone 2.

I expect they'll try to make the case that the big tower will be a sign of the area's renaissance and a landmark to be proud of, but the fact is it will be a boring glass oblong, not the Chrysler building.

They are going for 40% affordable, including social housing, which I approve of, though wish it could be higher. Everywhere should be 'affordable'

Totally agree with their plan to link in and improve dead zone around railway bridge

 

[hash tag]

Cloo I'm not sure where you coming from and don't mean to pour water on your fire, only I suspect there is very little you can get done. We are surrounded by new, higher density, higher number housing.There haven't been that many spaces for cars included ( but this is a new occupiers problem) , but the developers always mention improving local transport links etc. The transport is nothing to do with them, it's down to bus company's and train operators. Guess what, in the 8+ years I've lived here, there appears to have been little if any change to the transport...tell a lie. We now have a pier outside for the River bus. This only runs in the rush hour and as nice as it is, it's very expensive.
People on next door seem more interested in the reasons behind the latest strip of blue tape or where to get the best pedicure.

 

[Cloo]

Oh I agree, there's not much we can do about the transport sitch, and frankly people need homes. I remain broadly in support of the development though, I'm not going to object to it in principle. I'd love for it to be well designed and not just totally anonymous, but there ain't no way that's happening.

Maybe I'll lobby for them to get Peter Barber architects to do it - they genuinely interesting affordable developments. Well, a girl can dream!

Housing — Peter Barber Architects

 

[scifisam]

The parking issue might affect people very near the development more than you - it's the kind of thing that's difficult to appreciate unless you're in the actual area that's affected and if you have parking outside your house then you're not affected. Who wants to have to park a five minute walk from their home? They might not even be in the same zone. And if it's by the station then it's probably got more problems than even a couple of streets away.

When a huge development went up next to my previous flat we were supposed to be reassured by it being "car free". But those residents can still get visitors' permits, up to 30 per year for 50 or so flats, and parking was free at the weekends and evenings which happened to be the busiest times anyway (because we lived near Brick Lane and Columbia Rd). That's a pretty large increase in parking, really, considering our residents' permit covered a tiny zone of maybe 40 spaces, some of which you had to cross a main road to get to.

The rest of the local parking was council-owned land not covered by the parking permit, or spaces where you could drop off but not park for genuine safety reasons. It looked like a large "zone" but most of it wasn't actually covered by the permit.

As a disabled person you could apply for a specially located space but it's not easy to get one in London, and it has to be the driver applying for it. So carers can't get one even if they live there. It's not that common to be disabled enough to be eligible for one of those spaces and still be able to drive.

Ambulances generally couldn't park anywhere near the property they were serving so had to just stop in the (one way) street and drivers had to back out onto a main road.

There were basically a few hundred residents with 40 spaces plus tons of tourists taking up spaces at the weekends. But looking from the outside, it wouldn't have looked like that.

God, I'm so glad I got out before the new development was finished. I'm .5 of a kilometre away and it's totally different.

 

[Ming]

BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone). The extreme NIMBY.

 

[Poi E]

My new millennial next door neighbours are charming, healthy, community minded people. How do I drag them down to my level? It's like not only do they have the youth but also the maturity. WTF. Arrogant twats.