the neoliberal vision of the future

[Steel Icarus]

"Well ordered"?

Good boys and girls.

 

[butchersapron]

"Well ordered"?

Yes, this one.

 

[camouflage]

Neo-liberalism has nothing to do with any of that. It wants a well ordered society pumping out surplus value - a market, law , a state propping this up and that's it.

It wants THIS society run to their ends. Not death camps

I find it difficult to grasp what you mean, sure here in the West we can talk about a strong stable state, all very civilized, but that just means the Mad Max stuff is externalised, brushed under the carpet, made to un-exist. THIS society is run on pig-shit, there can be no disconnect in my mind of the gloss from the pig-shit.

THIS society does increasingly rely (in accordance with the neoliberal agenda) on highly mobile capital charging across the sandy landscapes of a world stripped of trade-barriers, going where they may, thriving from the labor of the ever growing shanty towns that rise from the ashes of the neoliberals creative destruction.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't know what you're on about.

 

[Idris2002]

More tomorrow, darlings.

 

[butchersapron]

That's a neo-mercantilist

 

[camouflage]

I don't know what you're on about.

Then perhaps a picture will assist...

I'm on about this kind of thing, the "pig-shit" of THIS society that neoliberal policies have made worse, unless you'll start telling me the WTO/IMF/World Bank and other neoliberal bulwarks are helping to roll-back poverty and exploitation. Your "stong stable" neoliberal states float on a sea of externalised Mad Maxian "pig-shit". The fall-out from all that unfettered capitalism ends up somehere no?

 

[DotCommunist]

I think I do, but by what you are arguing is these 'outrider' might-right situations are largely not the playground for neoliberalism as an economic doctrine. It performs in existing states where the strong state institutions soak up the fall out from economic policies that couldn't even exist in places without the structure for the idea to operate within. In those 'outrider' places and situations far cruder forms of economic relation go on but are not unmanipulated by those whose interests lie with neoliberalist economies. Hence camoflage is seeing the outrider affects as characteristic wheras you are talking about how the economic/social/political idea of neoliberalism functions in the places where it is what it is.

Unless I am reading you wrong, and camoflage wrong.

 

[butchersapron]

Then perhaps a picture will assist...

I'm on about this kind of thing, the "pig-shit" of THIS society that neoliberal policies have made worse, unless you'll start telling me the WTO/IMF/World Bank and other neoliberal bulwarks are helping to roll-back poverty and exploitation. Your "stong stable" neoliberal states float on a sea of externalised Mad Maxian "pig-shit". The fall-out from all that unfettered capitalism ends up somehere no?

That's exactly what i'm on about.

 

[audiotech]

From t'other thread on 400 richest Americans:

Just spotted America Is Not Broke.

The truth is, there's lots of money to go around. LOTS. It's just that those in charge have diverted that wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates. They know they have committed crimes to make this happen and they know that someday you may want to see some of that money that used to be yours. So they have bought and paid for hundreds of politicians across the country to do their bidding for them. But just in case that doesn't work, they've got their gated communities, and the luxury jet is always fully fueled, the engines running, waiting for that day they hope never comes.

My emphasis.

 

[butchersapron]

I think I do, but by what you are arguing is these 'outrider' might-right situations are largely not the playground for neoliberalism as an economic doctrine. It performs in existing states where the strong state institutions soak up the fall out from economic policies that couldn't even exist in places without the structure for the idea to operate within. In those 'outrider' places and situations far cruder forms of economic relation go on but are not unmanipulated by those whose interests lie with neoliberalist economies. Hence camoflage is seeing the outrider affects as characteristic wheras you are talking about how the economic/social/political idea of neoliberalism functions in the places where it is what it is.

Unless I am reading you wrong, and camoflage wrong.

Good post, effect rather than dynamic.

 

[butchersapron]

From t'other thread on 400 richest Americans:

What on earth do you think is going to happen? The monster is here. They do not need anything else.



My emphasis.

What on earth do you think is going to happen? The monster is here. They do not need anything else.

 

[audiotech]

Sort out the quote I didn't make please.

I'm no ''Mother Shipton' who was reputed to be 'hideously ugly'.

 

[Streathamite]

Neo-liberalism has nothing to do with any of that. It wants a well ordered society pumping out surplus value - a market, law , a state propping this up and that's it.

It wants THIS society run to their ends. Not death camps

The classic thatcherite phrase"free economics and a strong state"?

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Thanks for the thread, even if it got diverted a bit.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

In all pre-modern societies. Off the thread bob.

Not in an absolute way; it was the general trend, enhanced by pre-capitalist globalization.

 

[Steel Icarus]

pre-capitalist globalization.

Could you explain this phrase?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Could you explain this phrase?

Deepening links between regions in the premodern world (Europe, and Asia, and the Middle East North Africa), trade and exploration, intercolonial rivalry as military power began to improve, more interest in and exchange of knowledge - before capitalism.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Neo-liberal future? Not unlike the the neo-liberal present where the alcohol industry sets national health policy.

Louis MacNeice

 

[Idris2002]

Deepening links between regions in the premodern world (Europe, and Asia, and the Middle East North Africa), trade and exploration, intercolonial rivalry as military power began to improve, more interest in and exchange of knowledge - before capitalism.

Internationalisation is not the same thing as globalisation, which implies not only enduring international links, but also links which entail a process of transcendance in which the national and regional level is left behind.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

I've never heard of it being referred to it as anything else, although what you say about it makes sense.

 

[nino_savatte]

Neo-liberal future? Not unlike the the neo-liberal present where the alcohol industry sets national health policy.

Louis MacNeice

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I don't know what you're on about.

Something to do with primitive accumulation (in the broader sense) perhaps?

 

[butchersapron]

That's most certanly what i'm on about.

 

[camouflage]

Some neoliberal capital, earlier on today.

Down with capital controls!

(except for the sturdy "strong state" subsidies, tariffs and other barriers to entry that protect Bartertown itself of course.)

 

[audiotech]

'The “liberal tradition” in America.'

http://asitoughttobe.com/2011/03/15...burning”-american-passivity-in-the-class-war/

 

[Streathamite]

'The “liberal tradition” in America.'

http://asitoughttobe.com/2011/03/15...burning”-american-passivity-in-the-class-war/

That's rather good

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Republicans are trying to establish a corporate run dictatorship in Michigan:

http://www.politicususa.com/en/rachel-maddow-michigan

Neo-liberalism's endpoint.

 

[nino_savatte]

What time is it?
It's revolution time!

 

[Jeff Robinson]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."