The meaning of “conservative” in US media

[danny la rouge]

This is something Mrs LR and I were just discussing. We’ve been watching the Morning Show, because I like to do things either before everyone else, or, when that’s not possible, a long time after everyone else. We’re 5 episodes in.

Reese Witherspoon’s character, Bradley, is described several times as “a conservative” and it’s implied that Jennifer Anniston’s character, Alex, is liberal.

Now. This is where we are a little confused, because it doesn’t seem to mean the same as it does to us. Bradley pushes for stories about rich people abusing their privilege, and is grounded, real. She understands the race dimension at work, as well as the effects of patriarchy. She’s honest about her upbringing. She seems to come from an unprivileged background, blue collar, so on. Does “conservative” just mean working class and white?

They do say “she’s not that kind of conservative” and that she’s “libertarian”, which seems to be about the fact she had an abortion when she was younger.

But her attitudes, the questions she asks, the stories she wants to cover: they’re the questions I’d ask in those circumstances.

Whereas Alex seems to come from a very privileged background, she’s comfortable with the rich and powerful, she’s part of the establishment. Her social circle, such as it is, is rich and powerful people. We don’t hear her social or political views, other than that she doesn’t want to rock the boat. To me that sounds more like “conservative”.

I thought I had a handle on US politics, but this interested me, and Mrs LR, and we both think it seems like a total inversion of what we’d have thought.

So, what gives?

 

[petee]

this is a big and important question and I'm on phone so I'll come back.

 

[8ball]

Does “conservative” just mean working class and white?

Not unless there’s also a dog and a trucker hat involved.

The converse thing, with the “liberals” being more au fait with the rich and powerful, and identifying with their worldview, does seem to reflect reality better going by your description.

 

[danny la rouge]

The converse thing, with the “liberals” being more au fait with the rich and powerful, and identifying with their worldview, does seem to reflect reality better going by your description.

I’m more interested in the definition of “conservative” here, than “liberal”.

 

[starfish]

Its probably not the same meaning as over here.

 

[Ax^]

both side of the American 2 party political system are deeply conservative to Europe eyes

so it's a big difference

conservative In American is now more or less right wing religious nut bag

 

[danny la rouge]

conservative In American is now more or less right wing religious nut bag

Right? That’s what I thought. But that doesn’t describe Bradley. That’s what I mean.

Alex, on the other hand, is appalled by the abortion story coming out.

 

[8ball]

I’m more interested in the definition of “conservative” here, than “liberal”.

Well, it does sound like a slightly odd definition based on what you have taken from the show.

I haven’t seen it.

In America, neither term seems to make that much sense without reference to the other.

 

[starfish]

 

[Puddy_Tat]

In America, neither term seems to make that much sense without reference to the other.

i think it depends whether someone is talking about themselves, someone they like, or someone they don't like, and what their politics are to start with.

but i get the impression that this isn't far off

conservative In American is now more or less right wing religious nut bag

 

[mentalchik]

It always astounds me when Americans talk about 'left wing' politics....they don't have left wing politics and wouldn't know it if it smacked them about the head.

 

[moochedit]

my understanding of the american meaning of the word was pro gun "rights", anti abortion, religous, pro death penalty, wants taxes cut.

 

[Orang Utan]

They also seem reluctant to call anyone working class. They seem to define the deserving poor as middle class, but the undeserving as ‘underclass

 

[lazythursday]

Having watched this, I don't remember Bradley being described as a conservative (but you may well be right) - more that she was from a small town, red state, conservative background. And so judged for that, assumptions made, etc.

 

[Ax^]

They also seem reluctant to call anyone working class. They seem to define the deserving poor as working class, but the undeserving as ‘underclass

hmm the have some weird fetish about being pulled up by their own boot straps.. even if half the time.

a rich set of parents helped :hmm;

 

[Orang Utan]

They also seem reluctant to call anyone working class. They seem to define the deserving poor as working class, but the undeserving as ‘underclass’

Oops I meant middle class and typed working

 

[danny la rouge]

Oops I meant middle class and typed working

I knew what you meant.

 

[krtek a houby]

It always astounds me when Americans talk about 'left wing' politics....they don't have left wing politics and wouldn't know it if it smacked them about the head.

Socialism, communism and anarchism were certainly more in vogue a hundred years ago, but was soon demonised and cracked down on by the likes of Hoover. And of course, there was also the Wobblies.

Then there was the second "red scare" which seemed to affect Hollywood, rather than the first one mentioned above which impacted on working class.

Then in the 60s and 70s it was the Black Panthers, student militants and protesters.

Admittedly, it's not as big as it used to be, but left wing politics and activists do exist in the US. In communities with people organising together. Or in big cities like LA, where there's activists who monitor the cops. There's political groups like Redneck Revolt. And obviously movements like Antifa and BLM, although there's a spectrum of left to centerist leanings in the latter and the former is a bit of an umbrella term...

(Am certain there's a thread about the history of left wing movements in the US that far more knowledgeable urbanites have contributed to!)

 

[yield]

I'd like to hear what petee & imposs1904 think.

Reminds me of false friends

In linguistics, a false friend is a word in a different language that looks or sounds similar to a word in a given language, but differs significantly in meaning.

 

[petee]

I'd like to hear what petee & imposs1904 think.

thanks for the tag. the hurricane knocked out my internet and I'm still on phone. will respond though!

 

[bluescreen]

I haven;t seen the show you're talking about and I'm not American so shouldn't venture an opinion
nevertheless, this is urban, so:
are you sure they are depicting these political views correctly?

 

[spring-peeper]

thanks for the tag. the hurricane knocked out my internet and I'm still on phone. will respond though!

Glad you are safe

Debby came to visit our neck of the woods. She was not nice. We got over 4 inches of rain.

 

[bcuster]

Antigovernment

 

[seventh bullet]

It always astounds me when Americans talk about 'left wing' politics....they don't have left wing politics and wouldn't know it if it smacked them about the head.

Left radicalism, whether anarchist, socialist, communist, etc, isn't alien to the US. Far from it. Some of the most radical US people (anarchist or communist) I've seen online are working class men and women, a few former soldiers among them, and who live in red states.

 

[petee]

This is something Mrs LR and I were just discussing. We’ve been watching the Morning Show, because I like to do things either before everyone else, or, when that’s not possible, a long time after everyone else. We’re 5 episodes in.

Reese Witherspoon’s character, Bradley, is described several times as “a conservative” and it’s implied that Jennifer Anniston’s character, Alex, is liberal.

Now. This is where we are a little confused, because it doesn’t seem to mean the same as it does to us. Bradley pushes for stories about rich people abusing their privilege, and is grounded, real. She understands the race dimension at work, as well as the effects of patriarchy. She’s honest about her upbringing. She seems to come from an unprivileged background, blue collar, so on. Does “conservative” just mean working class and white?

They do say “she’s not that kind of conservative” and that she’s “libertarian”, which seems to be about the fact she had an abortion when she was younger.

But her attitudes, the questions she asks, the stories she wants to cover: they’re the questions I’d ask in those circumstances.

Whereas Alex seems to come from a very privileged background, she’s comfortable with the rich and powerful, she’s part of the establishment. Her social circle, such as it is, is rich and powerful people. We don’t hear her social or political views, other than that she doesn’t want to rock the boat. To me that sounds more like “conservative”.

I thought I had a handle on US politics, but this interested me, and Mrs LR, and we both think it seems like a total inversion of what we’d have thought.

So, what gives?

internet back, so.

on the crudest level, "conservative" is whatever you like, and "liberal" is whatever you don't (just listen to american talk radio for an orgy of this). or, the reverse. in undergrad i met a guy who said about a candidate, quote," he's liberal so he's good." i had been raised in a diametrically opposed household.

Reese Witherspoon’s character, Bradley, is described several times as “a conservative” and it’s implied that Jennifer Anniston’s character, Alex, is liberal.
do they define themselves that way?

Does “conservative” just mean working class and white?
certainly not, though this is a trope in rightwing propaganda becuase "conservative" is "morally good" (see above). (all those who follow my posts closely will notice that i always use "rightwing" and not "conservative".) follow vance vs walz and you can decide.

Alex seems to come from a very privileged background, she’s comfortable with the rich and powerful, she’s part of the establishment. Her social circle, such as it is, is rich and powerful people. We don’t hear her social or political views, other than that she doesn’t want to rock the boat. To me that sounds more like “conservative”.
oh god no. the liberal can be defined as the class-ignorant individual for whom unfeterred personal privilege tops all other considerations. (i'm speaking here from a lifetime of experience, being from a certain nighborhood in a certain city.)

more if you wish.

 

[danny la rouge]

Thanks. I mean, I can give you what I understand as conservative (and yes, it’s different from “right wing”) in this country, and what I understand as liberal (and for me that’s very different from left wing), but the way that Bradley was described as conservative in the first few episodes bemused us. So it is something I’d like to explore deeper, and would appreciate more of your thoughts when/if you have the time.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Interesting, petee. I'm learning something here. It appears to be different from the use of 'conservative' here.

'the class-ignorant individual for whom unfeterred personal privilege tops all other considerations' sounds very much like a Tory!

And the US category of 'liberal' doesn't really exist here, although I've heard it used by people influenced by the media. In the UK, 'liberal' has historically meant something more like 'centrist', although of course it has its roots in something specific – classical liberalism and being a fan of free trade. Hence in many countries, the 'Liberal' party is the r/w party of business.

 

[two sheds]

and there's politically liberal and socially liberal.

 

[petee]

and there's politically liberal and socially liberal.

in the states this will amount to the same thing usually, except that the rightwinger will take advantage of soially liberal policies ( North Carolina GOP candidate Mark Robinson, a harsh abortion critic, says his wife once had the procedure in new ad) while trying to expel them from mainstream acceptance. trump, for example, is a thorough social liberal.

 

[two sheds]

in the states this will amount to the same thing usually, except that the rightwinger will take advantage of soially liberal policies ( North Carolina GOP candidate Mark Robinson, a harsh abortion critic, says his wife once had the procedure in new ad) while trying to expel them from mainstream acceptance.

Yes there seem to be a few conservatives that are 'single-issue liberals' when they or their family are involved - accept when their daughter comes out gay for example, or gets divorced or wife gets abortion.

trump, for example, is a thorough social liberal.

errrm how does that work?