The Islamic state

[butchersapron]

in that case, don't link to sites like that one. Hold yourself to the high standards you hold others to on here.

I really don't get this - tell me why i should not link to this or this site.

 

[phildwyer]

A lot of people here are afraid. There are rumours going around about shopping centres being blown up, warnings about public transport/international schools/a lot of scaremongering basically. This was sent to all the foreigner's at a big school here:

In light of recent political events in the region, we thought it timely to share some recommendations regarding safety measures. These items have come to us from experienced expatriates and are meant to encourage preparation and vigilance rather than concern.

· It is a good idea if you register yourself with your Embassy or Consulate to get the latest information about your country, citizenship, safety and other information. You might also put the phone number of your consulate on your cell phone.
· For medical emergencies, please note that 112 is the state ambulance service.

· Ensure that some cash is available in your apt, should the ATM service be disrupted (consider having Euros and Dollars available). Have essential documents and things that you absolutely can’t leave behind in one place so that you can grab them and go quickly if necessary.
· Send family back home phone numbers of work friends here that may generally know how to reach you.
· Ensure that the school has any updated emergency contact information of your family back home.
· Have an idea of where you may go in the case of an emergency and share this information with your family or friends.
· Have a family phone list in your home that a friend could get to just in case you cannot personally contact your family. Consider giving a spare house key to someone you trust. It may be a good idea to give your keys to someone who may be able to send you your things later on should you need to leave quickly.
· Remember, Istanbul is a safe and dynamic place with many wonderful and very helpful people: some planning and common sense will ensure you stay safe and thrive in this inimitable city.

Sorry it's not directly about IS but it kind of is. Personally I'm finding it really odd that during all the Gezi protests, daily life changed a lot - lessons cancelled, banging, public transport affected, everyone talking about it, but everything is continuing much as normal during this. It only seems to be the foreigners and the Kurds who are discussing this and interested and concerned.
Made the mistake of watching a Turkish news channel yesterday.

That message seems a bit alarmist. Did it come from Bogazici?

I´m also surprised to hear that your Turkish mates aren´t talking about Kobane. Mine certainly are.

Anyway, thanks for the update and keep your head down. I envy you Istanbul--I´ll be there in the spring, but I wish I could be there now. Queen of Cities innit.

 

[phildwyer]

That you have repeatedly stated that Turkey has nothing to fear from IS.

As long as they don´t allow aid to the PKK. That´s what I said.

 

[coley]

As long as they don´t allow aid to the PKK. That´s what I said.

They are allowing the coalition airforces use of their bases,won't that annoy them somewhat?

 

[butchersapron]

They are allowing the coalition airforces use of their bases,won't that annoy them somewhat?

That's not so sure now.

Turkey denies reaching accord with U.S. on use of air base against Islamic State

 

[teqniq]

Islamic State seizes third Iraqi army base in Anbar after military retreat

 

[phildwyer]

For whom?

For the Kurds.

There seems to be a misconception in the West that the PKK is somehow representative of the Kurdish people. It is not. The PKK is the Kurdish people´s most deadly enemy. If we arm their deadly enemy, that is bad for the Kurds. It´s also bad for everybody else.

 

[coley]

For the Kurds.

There seems to be a misconception in the West that the PKK is somehow representative of the Kurdish people. It is not. The PKK is the Kurdish people´s most deadly enemy. If we arm their deadly enemy, that is bad for the Kurds. It´s also bad for everybody else.

You keep saying this but I don't see you presenting any evidence, and from where I am standing there is 100% Kurdish support for those fighting in Kobane

 

[phildwyer]

They are allowing the coalition airforces use of their bases,won't that annoy them somewhat?

If that happens, it will indeed annoy them.

So I doubt it will happen. I certainly hope it won´t. If it does, I hope and trust Erdogan will have exacted a very heavy price in return. If he has, it is unlikely to be good news for the PKK. The smart thing for him to do (and he is undoubtedly smart) would be to find a way to uncouple the relief of Kobane from aid to the PKK, and use the former to prevent the latter. I suspect however that such a task is beyond even Erdogan´s Machiavellian cunning. But we´ll see.

 

[Red Storm]

Captured ISIS weapons from Rojava Breaking News.

 

[phildwyer]

You keep saying this but I don't see you presenting any evidence, and from where I am standing there is 100% Kurdish support for those fighting in Kobane

What I think you mean is that there is 100% opposition to a massacre. Your mistake is to equate that with support for the PKK.

As I said above, everyone would like to separate humanitarian aid to the population from military aid to the PKK. Everyone that is apart from the PKK, who have every interest in making sure they will be the only beneficiaries of any aid.

 

[The39thStep]

Why is the PKK the Kurdish people's most deadliest enemy?

 

[coley]

What I think you mean is that there is 100% opposition to a massacre. Your mistake is to equate that with support for the PKK.

As I said above, everyone would like to separate humanitarian aid to the population from military aid to the PKK. Everyone that is apart from the PKK, who have every interest in making sure they will be the only beneficiaries of any aid.

Are you trying to say that the Kurds support those fighting in Kobane,except for those who are members of the PKK
Still no evidence that the PKK is detested by the Kurdish majority?

 

[butchersapron]

Are you trying to say that the Kurds support those fighting in Kobane,except for those who are members of the PKK
Still no evidence that the PKK is detested by the Kurdish majority?

Here's something you may be interested in:

Kurd vs. Kurd: internal clashes continue in Turkey

A call bound to escalate tensions between Huda-Par and the PKK appeared Oct. 7 through a Twitter account said to be belong to the YDG-H. It read, “To the attention of all our security units in Kurdistan and Turkey. Arm yourselves. Hezbollah-contra-Huda-Par members are to be executed wherever they are seen.” After the tweet, YDG-H members began attacking Huda-Par religious centers, associations and party premises in Diyarbakir, Batman, Bitlis and Siirt, where they are known to be strong. Huda-Par responded with arms, and the clashes intensified.

There have been reports, especially out of Istanbul, that armed gangs of the PKK’s urban organization, the Kurdish Communities Union (KCK), have been pursuing and executing people thought to be Islamists, accusing them of being IS members, and attacking associations supporting the Syrian opposition.

A high-ranking official from the pro-Islamic Imkander association, which supports Caucasian immigrants in Turkey, told Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity that the KCK has been threatening leaders of Islamic organizations and Islamist opinion-makers and trying such people in KCK courts. The Turkish government, although allegedly aware of these actions, is not saying anything for fear of undermining the peace process with the PKK. On Aug. 30, a prominent Islamist was killed and two others were badly wounded in an operation in Istanbul claimed by YDG-H. The Kurdish news agency ANF reported the incident as an “execution of [IS] members.”

What is interesting is that the PKK and Salafist movements in Turkey both accuse the government of complacency when it comes to the clashes between PKK supporters and Kurdo-Islamists. According to the PKK, the state is inciting the Salafists against it, enacting a new policy of persuading Islamist Kurds to fight revolutionary Kurds. On the other hand, as the police and judiciary have shown little interest in the events, the Salafist movements, as noted, accuse the state of ignoring the PKK's attacks on it to avoid damaging the peace process

See this also.

 

[phildwyer]

Why is the PKK the Kurdish people's most deadliest enemy?

Because they seek to impose their rule over the Kurds by military forcé.

 

[The39thStep]

Because they seek to impose their rule over the Kurds by military forcé.

Hasn't everyone?

 

[miss direct]

That message seems a bit alarmist. Did it come from Bogazici?

No, one of the international schools.

 

[phildwyer]

Hasn't everyone?

Yes. Responsibility for the plight of the Kurds likes with the British and (to a lesser extent) the French, who failed to give them an independent homeland after World War One.

 

[The39thStep]

And Iraq , Turkey, Syria , Iran, depending on how big a Kurdistan state would be.

I lived in a street where there were squats in the very late 70s and made friends with some former peshmerga members who lived there.

 

[phildwyer]

And Iraq , Turkey, Syria , Iran, depending on how big a Kurdistan state would be.

Turkey was never the place for an independent Kurdistán. It was robbed of most of it´s most valuable territory anyway, it would have been both unfair and unrealistic to expect it to give up any more.

That said, the Western Powers defintely blundered by exempting the Kurds from the right to self-determination.

 

[coley]

Here's something you may be interested in:

Kurd vs. Kurd: internal clashes continue in Turkey
Thanks for that, but both articles highlight divisions ( mainly religious or ideological) between the Kurds themselves, what I have asked PD for is proof the majority of Kurds detest the PKK and that the PKK are responsible for attacks on Turkish civilians.







See this also.

 

[J Ed]

This thread is a lot better with phil on ignore just an FYI

 

[frogwoman]

Because they seek to impose their rule over the Kurds by military forcé.

Sounds familiar

 

[Pickman's model]

All of them.

I´m trying to respond to you seriously, on what is after all a very serious subject, but you´re not making much sense frankly. Why don´t you explain what you´re getting at and we´ll take it from there?

tell you what, you just name a couple of these pkk attacks you referred to before, just to demonstrate your claim.

 

[butchersapron]

Thanks for that, but both articles highlight divisions ( mainly religious or ideological) between the Kurds themselves, what I have asked PD for is proof the majority of Kurds detest the PKK and that the PKK are responsible for attacks on Turkish civilians.

Wouldn't highlighting divisions within kurdish society based on support for or violent rejection of the PKK (and the story of their past internal feuds that left thousands dead) - as found in those articles - indicate at least some kurds don't support the PKK? I'm not sure that you're saying the majority of kurds support the PKK or if you're just rejecting what looks like a total OTT claim from PD though. Which, i guess, is why i shouldn't try and intervene in a discussion when one half of it is on ignore

 

[phildwyer]

Sounds familiar

One thing you can´t accuse modern Turkey of is imposing its will by military forcé. It´s a democracy.

 

[phildwyer]

tell you what, you just name a couple of these pkk attacks you referred to before, just to demonstrate your claim.

You think the statement that the PKK have attacked civilian targets is a "claim" that needs verifying.

It is not. Everyone including the PKK accepts it as fact.

If you are unaware of this, as it seems you are, then you know nothing at all about the región and had best keep your mouth shut on the subject.

 

[frogwoman]

One thing you can´t accuse modern Turkey of is imposing its will by military forcé. It´s a democracy.

Lol

 

[phildwyer]

Lol

Why do you disagree?

 

[The39thStep]

What I find quite interesting / disturbing is the contrast between the level of support for Gaza and the level of support for the Kurds. Quite clear that some of those that support the Palestinians and Gaza are not just uninterested but actively support who the Kurds are fighting against. Here's a link ( treat source with caution) off a tweet that I read

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/09/28/report-extremist-who-was-part-of-gaza-flotilla-killed-in-syria/