The Islamic state

[Idris2002]

Probably intimidate them into giving them bribes and taxes like the Taliban did in Afghanistan

And to give it an ISIS twist, probably round up a few addicts every so often and burn them alive.

 

[thriller]

http://www.independent.co.uk/video/?videoid=4036687885001

 

[elbows]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ading-coptic-christian-hostages-10047774.html

ISIS seems to be expanding massively in sinai and libya

Given the large swathes of territory they've managed to control in Iraq and Syria, I intend to be quite careful with terms such as 'expanding massively' when applied to them elsewhere.

I havent gotten a proper handle on their size and extent of their geographical influence in Libya. There are so many other sides fighting war there on a painfully stagnant scale, more than one of which can be described as Islamist.

Without wishing to downplay the horror faced by their very real victims, its quite likely that their significance in Libya is greater right now on the international propaganda stage than it is in terms of territory held and number of fighters.

The credibility of Egyptian propaganda does not seem to have improved since the end of Mubarak.

Meanwhile, the Egyptian Ambassador to the UK, Nasser Kamel, told the BBC that Libya was a problem for Europe in particular because of its closeness to Italy.

"[There are] boat people who go for immigration purposes and try to cross the Mediterranean," he said. "In the next few weeks if we do not act together, there will be boats full of terrorists also."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31494806

I suggest that cynicism about Egypts bombing actions in Libya is deservedly higher than it would have been if Egypt had not already indulged in supporting one side in Libya using force.It is impossible to entirely remove their response to the horrific beheadings from their pre-existing agenda in Libya.

 

[J Ed]

I agree with elbows, can anyone recommend any reading on ISIS' presence in Libya?

 

[Patteran]

I agree with elbows, can anyone recommend any reading on ISIS' presence in Libya?

Some context and analysis here from Jadilyya magazine - I've linked to the site before in this thread, it's an interesting, independent academic resource for the Middle East & North Africa.

in the wake of the entrenchment of ISIS’ Derna affiliate, additional chapters have been noted in Bayda, Benghazi, Sirte, al-Khums, and Tripoli, underscoring the rising tide of ISIS-Libya. However, the fears of its rapid succession bear the hallmarks of other Western exaggerated and panicky reporting. In reality, ISIS’ Libyan foray is idiosyncratic to Derna’s historical jihadi inculcation, the battle for the mantle of jihadism within Libya and across the Islamic world, and the peculiar circumstances of the post-Gaddafi security environment.

 

[elbows]

Very good, very timely detail, thanks for posting that article.

 

[frogwoman]

Thats a really good site, thank you.

 

[CNT36]

Given the large swathes of territory they've managed to control in Iraq and Syria, I intend to be quite careful with terms such as 'expanding massively' when applied to them elsewhere.

I havent gotten a proper handle on their size and extent of their geographical influence in Libya. There are so many other sides fighting war there on a painfully stagnant scale, more than one of which can be described as Islamist.

Without wishing to downplay the horror faced by their very real victims, its quite likely that their significance in Libya is greater right now on the international propaganda stage than it is in terms of territory held and number of fighters.

The credibility of Egyptian propaganda does not seem to have improved since the end of Mubarak.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31494806

I suggest that cynicism about Egypts bombing actions in Libya is deservedly higher than it would have been if Egypt had not already indulged in supporting one side in Libya using force.It is impossible to entirely remove their response to the horrific beheadings from their pre-existing agenda in Libya.

Do you know what exactly the relationship with ISIS is? Do they receive any practical support or is it a matter of branding and the identity type stuff mentioned in the Patteran article? Jihad is a competitive market after all.

 

[teqniq]

I'll put this here as I feel it's relevant

Bitter Lake: Was Adam Curtis's Saudi oil doc too toxic for TV?

the key quote for me:

...and suggests that the west's thirst for oil has helped fuel the rise of radical Islam today...

What? Really???

Anyways, only to be found on iPlayer and some people are suggesting that it may be too controversial for airtime BBC broadcast. Looks to be really interesting, will give it a watch tomorrow evening I think

E2a gone from iPlayer but can be found on Youtube

 

[Diamond]

I'll put this here as I feel it's relevant

Bitter Lake: Was Adam Curtis's Saudi oil doc too toxic for TV?

the key quote for me:



What? Really???

Anyways, only to be found on iPlayer and some people are suggesting that it may be too controversial for airtime BBC broadcast. Looks to be really interesting, will give it a watch tomorrow evening I think

E2a gone from iPlayer but can be found on Youtube

I was expecting a lot and tried it twice over already but gave up both times about 2/3 and 3/4 the way through respectively.

It rehashes a lot of his earlier material in a fairly turgid way and just doesn't hang together very convincingly.

In the end it feels like someone constantly doing the big "reveal" in that Curtis-like "rabbit out of the hat" manner relentlessly so that it rather bleeds credibility and never builds much of a coherent narrative...

I very much doubt it would have been pulled from TV on left on iplayer for reasons of self-censorship, that doesn't really make sense at all. It's far more likely that the schedulers determined that it wouldn't have an audience, probably because it's not all that good.

 

[Patteran]

Do you know what exactly the relationship with ISIS is? Do they receive any practical support or is it a matter of branding and the identity type stuff mentioned in the Patteran article? Jihad is a competitive market after all.

I wondered if it was the other way - if IS operates as a gangster franchise, & that flying the flag means siphoning some points upstairs? Libya is awash with oil & guns & useable airstrips.

A couple of articles in that Jadilyya magazine have reinforced the point that while elements in the western media analyse ISIS in terms of abstract superstitious jihadi woo, the Middle Eastern analysis is much more prosaic, characterising IS as a series of local caudillos exploiting poverty & desperation for money, power & revenge.

 

[frogwoman]

At least 45 people burned alive by isis accused of working with iraqi forces.

 

[8ball]

At least 45 people burned alive by isis accused of working with iraqi forces.

It's like they've grown tired of beheadings because they weren't making namby-pamby groups like Al-Quaeda hate them enough.

 

[TomUS]

Wonder if W & co ever stop & think 'My god, what did we bring about." Probably not.

 

[butchersapron]

**

 

[J Ed]

Thoughts on this anyone?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...k-the-epicenter-of-iraq-s-next-civil-war.html

KIRKUK, Iraq — Tensions in the ancient city of Kirkuk are threatening to boil over as Kurdish forces move to turn their battle lines with ISIS into the border for a Kurdish state.
The city traditionally has had a mix of Iraq’s main ethnic and confessional groups—Kurds, Turkmens (many of whom are Shia), Shia Arabs and Sunni Arabs. But the province is rich in oil and natural gas that the Kurds deem essential as they plan for economic independence, especially since the Kurdistan Regional Government signed a major oil deal with Turkey. They don’t intend to share it. And hostilities with Shia Arabs are growing increasingly dangerous.
Even though ISIS, the so-called Islamic State, is practically on the city’s doorstep, Masoud Barzani, the president of Iraqi Kurdistan, has opposed arming the city’s Arab and Turkmen population since Kurdish forces took control of the region from the Iraqi government last summer. The Kurdish advance came after ISIS took the city of Tikrit, which lies to the south between Kirkuk and Baghdad.

In a recent interview with the London-based Arabic daily newspaper Al Hayat, Barzani said that “We will not allow any forces to enter Kirkuk,” in a message clearly directed at Iranian-backed Shia militias.

 

[teqniq]

Thoughts on this anyone?

another clusterfuck in the making?

 

[J Ed]

BTW interesting to note the conciliatory PKK tone vs Barzani's anti-Arab stance

 

[bluescreen]

I don't think anyone's linked to this Atlantic article yet.
What ISIS really wants

<snip>Our ignorance of the Islamic State is in some ways understandable: It is a hermit kingdom; few have gone there and returned. Baghdadi has spoken on camera only once. But his address, and the Islamic State’s countless other propaganda videos and encyclicals, are online, and the caliphate’s supporters have toiled mightily to make their project knowable. We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle; that it hungers for genocide; that its religious views make it constitutionally incapable of certain types of change, even if that change might ensure its survival; and that it considers itself a harbinger of—and headline player in—the imminent end of the world.

The Islamic State, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), follows a distinctive variety of Islam whose beliefs about the path to the Day of Judgment matter to its strategy, and can help the West know its enemy and predict its behavior. Its rise to power is less like the triumph of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (a group whose leaders the Islamic State considers apostates) than like the realization of a dystopian alternate reality in which David Koresh or Jim Jones survived to wield absolute power over not just a few hundred people, but some 8 million.

We have misunderstood the nature of the Islamic State in at least two ways. First, we tend to see jihadism as monolithic, and to apply the logic of al‑Qaeda to an organization that has decisively eclipsed it. The Islamic State supporters I spoke with still refer to Osama bin Laden as “Sheikh Osama,” a title of honor. But jihadism has evolved since al-Qaeda’s heyday, from about 1998 to 2003, and many jihadists disdain the group’s priorities and current leadership.

Bin Laden viewed his terrorism as a prologue to a caliphate he did not expect to see in his lifetime. His organization was flexible, operating as a geographically diffuse network of autonomous cells. The Islamic State, by contrast, requires territory to remain legitimate, and a top-down structure to rule it. (Its bureaucracy is divided into civil and military arms, and its territory into provinces.)

We are misled in a second way, by a well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature. Peter Bergen, who produced the first interview with bin Laden in 1997, titled his first book Holy War, Inc. in part to acknowledge bin Laden as a creature of the modern secular world. Bin Laden corporatized terror and franchised it out. He requested specific political concessions, such as the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia. His foot soldiers navigated the modern world confidently. On Mohammad Atta’s last full day of life, he shopped at Walmart and ate dinner at Pizza Hut.

And so on. Interesting and chilling article.
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

It's a long article. Basically, if I understand it right, it argues that the rest of the world ignores ISIS's religious motivation at its peril, that ISIS beliefs prevent it from ever negotiating, that the prospects of defeating it militarily are bleak, and that our best hope seems to be that it implodes politically. It would be good to have an informed angle on the article, as I'm certainly no expert in the subject.

 

[teqniq]

also from the article

As if to show that he could terrorize by imagery alone, Adnani also referred to Secretary of State John Kerry as an “uncircumcised geezer.

wtf?

 

[teqniq]

That has to be one of the longest articles i've ever read on the net bluescreen Worth the read though, thanks

 

[laptop]

I don't think anyone's linked to this Atlantic article yet.
What ISIS really wants

Hmm.

“If a man says to his brother, ‘You are an infidel,’ ” the Prophet said, “then one of them is right.”

Nice quote and condemnation of takfir. And shows the Prophet (PBUH) having a sharp sense of logical humour.

Except that when I search for it, all I find is pirate copies of this article. Can anyone with a better knowledge of the hadith help me?

 

[frogwoman]

Maqdisi was living freely in Jordan, but had been banned from communicating with terrorists abroad, and was being monitored closely. After Jordan granted the United States permission to reintroduce Maqdisi to Binali, Maqdisi bought a phone with American money and was allowed to correspond merrily with his former student for a few days, before the Jordanian government stopped the chats and used them as a pretext to jail Maqdisi. Kassig’s severed head appeared in the Dabiq video a few days later.

Maqdisi gets mocked roundly on Twitter by the Islamic State’s fans, and al‑Qaeda is held in great contempt for refusing to acknowledge the caliphate. Cole Bunzel, a scholar who studies Islamic State ideology, read Maqdisi’s opinion on Henning’s status and thought it would hasten his and other captives’ death. “If I were held captive by the Islamic State and Maqdisi said I shouldn’t be killed,” he told me, “I’d kiss my ass goodbye.”

Kassig’s death was a tragedy, but the plan’s success would have been a bigger one. A reconciliation between Maqdisi and Binali would have begun to heal the main rift between the world’s two largest jihadist organizations. It’s possible that the government wanted only to draw out Binali for intelligence purposes or assassination. (Multiple attempts to elicit comment from the FBI were unsuccessful.) Regardless, the decision to play matchmaker for America’s two main terrorist antagonists reveals astonishingly poor judgment.

 

[bluescreen]

Hmm.



Nice quote and condemnation of takfir. And shows the Prophet (PBUH) having a sharp sense of logical humour.

Except that when I search for it, all I find is pirate copies of this article. Can anyone with a better knowledge of the hadith help me?

That's always a bad sign, isn't it? Did he make it up or is it a new translation of something like 'Every Muslim who calls a Muslim infidel will have the epithet returned to him.'?

 

[xslavearcx]

There are lots of variations amongst the ahadith with similar sayings of the prophet uttered in different ways and with different nuances. That's because at the beginning of any chain of narration there may be different witnesses who heard/recalled/interpreted the utterances differently. And this goes for each successive member in the chain of narration (isnad) ...

And that's assuming that these chains are reliable either from the perspective of traditional Islamic scholarship which has its own methods of establishing the reliability of a Hadith, or from modern scholarship perspectives (sometimes pejoratively referred to as orientalist) which often calls into question the whole body of knowledge..(on the basis that of practices of various caliphates such as Umayyad and a Abbasid 'finding' ahadith that justified their authority/practices etc...which arguably were woven into various isnads in the development of aHadith methodology)....


Anyway those are the kinds of issues that need to be considered when looking for particular ahadith and explains how they can often appear different or at odds with each other even within one canon

 

[agricola]

Except that when I search for it, all I find is pirate copies of this article. Can anyone with a better knowledge of the hadith help me?

I believe its a paraphrase of this one:

I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) saying, "When any Muslim accuses another Muslim of sin or of disbelief, the reproach rebounds upon the one who utters it, if the other person is not deserving of it."

 

[laptop]

I believe its a paraphrase of this one:

Thanks!

 

[J Ed]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...saults-after-marrying-militants-10053020.html

Women living under Isis’s self-declared ‘caliphate’ are being subjected to 'brutal, abnormal sex acts' and are becoming too scared to leave their homes, a local activist group has claimed.

Many women and young girls are being forced to marry Isis militants in the group’s defacto capital of Raqqa, in Syria, and are then reportedly beaten and abused by their husbands.

The Syrian activist group Raqqa is Being Slaughtered Silently (RBSS) says universities have been closed by Isis and women are banned from travelling to other areas to study. In a report on its website, the group said Isis fighters began searching for wives after taking over a swathe of the city. It says militants introduced a series of "crackdowns" designed to coerce women into marriage, such as prohibiting them from travelling or working without a male relative.

Abu Mohammed Hussam, one of the RBSS activists living outside of Raqqa, said women who walk around without male guardians are constantly harassed.

He said girls and women between the ages of nine and 50 are sent to special ‘education centres’ to learn the Koran and given lessons on how to be good wives.

The RBSS report claimed Isis members took advantage of poverty-stricken families by offering high dowries in exchange for marrying their daughters.

Mr Hussam said he spoke with three women between the ages of 19 and 29 who have allegedly been abused by Isis members. One woman told him she was hospitalised after a fighter she was forced to marry sexually assaulted her.

He told The Independent: “Some women say that foreign fighters are the worst, like monsters. Some of them say they're asking for strange things. They are also looking to marry young girls”.

Salafi nonce rape tourism. Fuck Daesh.

 

[bluescreen]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...saults-after-marrying-militants-10053020.html

Salafi nonce rape tourism. Fuck Daesh.

I wish western reporters would stop describing sex slavery as marriage. Just because the victims have been forced to undergo a ceremony doesn't make it anything akin to what we understand by marriage.

 

[teqniq]

Salafi nonce rape tourism. Fuck Daesh.

If you read that admittedly very long article posted by bluescreen I think you will discover that Salafi is something that ISIS are not. But yes, fuck Daesh/ISIS