The housing crisis (London and beyond)

[marty21]

Back in the 1990s, housing associations used to rent flats and houses from private landlords and manage them themselves, renting them to homeless people nominated by the local authority.

It was generally fairly good quality accommodation and having the housing association as, effectively, the head tenant meant that repairs got dealt with (and other issues). At one point it was a large part of housing associations' 'business'. (My OH and several friends worked in this area).

I don't know if they still do this. I get the impression that councils now refer directly to 'approved' private landlords, and that HAs now have other interests, mainly developing for shared ownership, so-called affordable rent and outright sale. (They do develop for social, i.e. traditional HA rent, but this is a shrinking area of what they do).

Anyone know?

Not sure tbh , now I'm on the local authority side , I know we use a list of approved landlords for temporary accommodation, mostly out of Borough (as they are cheaper) and I'm in one of the central boroughs .

I do remember when I worked for PCHA , we took over a smaller HA , West Hampstead Housing Association, who had temporary housing contracts but ended up in financial trouble as they bid too low (there was a management fee of a certain weekly amount) and they were losing money on the contract.

 

[oryx]

Not sure tbh , now I'm on the local authority side , I know we use a list of approved landlords for temporary accommodation, mostly out of Borough (as they are cheaper) and I'm in one of the central boroughs .

I do remember when I worked for PCHA , we took over a smaller HA , West Hampstead Housing Association, who had temporary housing contracts but ended up in financial trouble as they bid too low (there was a management fee of a certain weekly amount) and they were losing money on the contract.

Interesting, thanks. I remember the West Hampstead debacle! I think the places OH and I worked actually made money on temporary accommodation.

It was a bit of a win-win (if you weren't WHHA!) as the tenant got decent housing, the council got good quality accommodation for homeless people and the HA expanded their areas of work. At one point - I would say late 80s to late 90s - it was an absolute boom area in housing.

The leases between the landlord and HA were usually about five years and often got renewed so it was common for the tenants to stay until the council made them a permanent offer.

 

[marty21]

Interesting, thanks. I remember the West Hampstead debacle! I think the places OH and I worked actually made money on temporary accommodation.

It was a bit of a win-win (if you weren't WHHA!) as the tenant got decent housing, the council got good quality accommodation for homeless people and the HA expanded their areas of work. At one point - I would say late 80s to late 90s - it was an absolute boom area in housing.

The leases between the landlord and HA were usually about five years and often got renewed so it was common for the tenants to stay until the council made them a permanent offer.

I'd agree with that time line , I was working mostly in the HA sector from 1995-2009, there was a huge boom in providing management services to LAs, I worked on Management Contracts in Westminster & Hackney. There was a boom in ALMOs too, but they seem to be going back to direct LA control (I know Hackney went that way) .

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Great to watch the BBC documentary ,isn't this what public service broadcasting is all about ?

They highlight the subtly of economic policy with regards to the Bank of England and it's affect on the mortgage market.

None of it addresses what type of housing should be built. Tenant buildings in existing cities ,soundproofed nr transport connections....should help.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I'd agree with that time line , I was working mostly in the HA sector from 1995-2009, there was a huge boom in providing management services to LAs, I worked on Management Contracts in Westminster & Hackney. There was a boom in ALMOs too, but they seem to be going back to direct LA control (I know Hackney went that way) .

Do you know of any good articles that explained what happened in Hackney? And any info about others going back to direct LA control? I'm wondering how that might tie in with a rumour I heard recently.

 

[Brainaddict]

I'd agree with that time line , I was working mostly in the HA sector from 1995-2009, there was a huge boom in providing management services to LAs, I worked on Management Contracts in Westminster & Hackney. There was a boom in ALMOs too, but they seem to be going back to direct LA control (I know Hackney went that way) .

In my experience some councillors came to dislike ALMOs because people were holding them (as councillors) responsible for the failures in social housing anyway, so they thought they might as well have full control so they could more directly sort out problems.

 

[marty21]

Do you know of any good articles that explained what happened in Hackney? And any info about others going back to direct LA control? I'm wondering how that might tie in with a rumour I heard recently.

Haven't read anything recently .

 

[marty21]

In my experience some councillors came to dislike ALMOs because people were holding them (as councillors) responsible for the failures in social housing anyway, so they thought they might as well have full control so they could more directly sort out problems.

Yep , initially they liked ALMOs as they could shift responsibility mind you , as a Council Employee , we get a little tired at Councillor Enquiries , which seem to get more numerous in the last few months before an election

 

[Puddy_Tat]

And any info about others going back to direct LA control?

lewisham is in the process of it

Council formally takes back 19,000 homes from housing company

Last year it was revealed the company didn’t know how many repairs were outstanding.

londonnewsonline.co.uk

wasn't there some sort of financial incentive for councils to hand over to either HA's or ALMO's during the blair government?

 

[marty21]

lewisham is in the process of it

Council formally takes back 19,000 homes from housing company

Last year it was revealed the company didn’t know how many repairs were outstanding.

londonnewsonline.co.uk

wasn't there some sort of financial incentive for councils to hand over to either HA's or ALMO's during the blair government?

Yep , around £100m iirc . Hackney had a referendum on it (Tenants & leaseholders) which voted for the ALMO (on a 22% turnout). I was involved in the consultation process for that) .

 

[oryx]

AFAIK it was all about getting funding for Decent Homes (that was a scheme, hence the capitalisation) which was unavailable to councils who retained their stock.

Decent Homes was a Labour initiative and is now history (again AFAIK) so no need for councils not to manage their own stock.

 

[Brainaddict]

Yep , initially they liked ALMOs as they could shift responsibility mind you , as a Council Employee , we get a little tired at Councillor Enquiries , which seem to get more numerous in the last few months before an election

It's natural enough, that's when councilors are doing doorknocking, so people tell them their problems and they pass them on. Of course they do want to look responsive at that time, but it's also just when they hear about more problems. You could argue that councillors should doorknock all year every year but that would only massively increase the number of Councillor Enquiries you get!

But I was just thinking, this return to full council control, as a result of tenants holding councils responsible for repairs etc anyway, is a small victory for the people. Through their own attitudes and desire to hold people accountable, tenants have undermined any logical reason for the ALMOs to exist. Not many wins for tenants in housing these days, so it's worth celebrating everyday acts of resistance when they bear fruit.

 

[marty21]

It's natural enough, that's when councilors are doing doorknocking, so people tell them their problems and they pass them on. Of course they do want to look responsive at that time, but it's also just when they hear about more problems. You could argue that councillors should doorknock all year every year but that would only massively increase the number of Councillor Enquiries you get!

But I was just thinking, this return to full council control, as a result of tenants holding councils responsible for repairs etc anyway, is a small victory for the people. Through their own attitudes and desire to hold people accountable, tenants have undermined any logical reason for the ALMOs to exist. Not many wins for tenants in housing these days, so it's worth celebrating everyday acts of resistance when they bear fruit.

Despite annoying councillors I prefer Councils to run Council Housing - alas it is too late to reverse some of the changes that were made in the 1990s - some councils just transferred their stock to other housing providers - not sure how it worked financially - were they bought? or did the providers take on any debt ?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

some councils just transferred their stock to other housing providers - not sure how it worked financially - were they bought? or did the providers take on any debt ?

Lewisham also transferred quite a few blocks / estates to housing associations. don't know any of the detail, though.

 

[pbsmooth]

Edinburgh declares housing emergency due to homeless numbers and rising cost of rents.

City of Edinburgh Council declares housing emergency

The Scottish government is being urged to provide extra resources to help meet "severe challenges".

www.bbc.com

 

[MickiQ]

Edinburgh declares housing emergency due to homeless numbers and rising cost of rents.

City of Edinburgh Council declares housing emergency

The Scottish government is being urged to provide extra resources to help meet "severe challenges".

www.bbc.com

What does declaring a 'housing emergency' actually mean? Unless it involves building some more council houses it's a bit on the empty gesture side.

 

[weepiper]

What does declaring a 'housing emergency' actually mean? Unless it involves building some more council houses it's a bit on the empty gesture side.

Given that the same council declared a climate emergency in 2019 yet the streets of this medieval city are still clogged with private vehicles four years later I'm not holding out much hope tbh.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Housebuilding contracts for 11months in a row.......
(Saw this on biz news headline)

 

[oryx]

Great to watch the BBC documentary ,isn't this what public service broadcasting is all about ?

They highlight the subtly of economic policy with regards to the Bank of England and it's affect on the mortgage market.

None of it addresses what type of housing should be built. Tenant buildings in existing cities ,soundproofed nr transport connections....should help.

I watched this recently and within its narrow confines it was very good.

The economic explanations, the light shone on leasehold housing and what a scam that is, the obscene profits made by developers etc etc were all incisive and informative.

The trouble is, it was mainly skewed towards home ownership and, amazingly, said little or nothing about the explosion in homelessness.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

I watched this recently and within its narrow confines it was very good.

The economic explanations, the light shone on leasehold housing and what a scam that is, the obscene profits made by developers etc etc were all incisive and informative.

The trouble is, it was mainly skewed towards home ownership and, amazingly, said little or nothing about the explosion in homelessness.

Or social housing. I was looking at the "Right To Buy" criteria for Lambeth council as an example.
The obvious questions; why is it so easy and why is it still happening if we're in a housing crisis ?

 

[oryx]

Or social housing. I was looking at the "Right To Buy" criteria for Lambeth council as an example.
The obvious questions; why is it so easy and why is it still happening if we're in a housing crisis ?

Votes.

Or at least that used to be the case.

 

[marty21]

Or social housing. I was looking at the "Right To Buy" criteria for Lambeth council as an example.
The obvious questions; why is it so easy and why is it still happening if we're in a housing crisis ?

It is far easier to buy a council flat outside London , the discount is around £120k, knocked off the market value - I'm guessing the market value of a 1 bed flat in Brixton is maybe 450k? so a tenant on average income would still have to get a mortgage of over £300k, which for most tenants is unobtainable.

I've always been against RTB as it doesn't replace the homes lost ,successive govts have promised that they would fund new building and replace every home lost under RTB, last time I looked it was something like 1 new home built for every 13 lost.

 

[Brainaddict]

Or social housing. I was looking at the "Right To Buy" criteria for Lambeth council as an example.
The obvious questions; why is it so easy and why is it still happening if we're in a housing crisis ?

It's important not to think of 'the housing crisis' as an accident. Since we've been in housing crisis for 20 years now, if it were an accident it could have been fixed by now. The continuance of right to buy is not just about buying the votes of the initial purchasers, but about increasing the number of people overall whose vote can be bought with promises of ever-increasing house prices (to make up for their falling real wages and shit pensions).

 

[pbsmooth]

Interesting article on the changing black population in London. Features Brixton and Croydon.

https://archive.li/2023.10.03-150235/https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-london-black-population-england-census/

 

[pbsmooth]

A scumbag HMO landlord... But in Hyde Park Gate?! I wouldn't have imagined a property like that in such "prime" territory.

Council prosecutes landlord for poor housing conditions in Hyde Park Gate houseshare | Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea

A landlord and managing company have been fined record fines of £480,000 for unsafe management of a houseshare in Kensington.

www.rbkc.gov.uk

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

A scumbag HMO landlord... But in Hyde Park Gate?! I wouldn't have imagined a property like that in such "prime" territory.

Council prosecutes landlord for poor housing conditions in Hyde Park Gate houseshare | Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea

A landlord and managing company have been fined record fines of £480,000 for unsafe management of a houseshare in Kensington.

www.rbkc.gov.uk

You can actually see the place on Google Maps: Google Maps

As you say it's really surprising something like that exists in that location - it actually looks out onto the park, it must be worth a fortune. I guess it shows just how much money a dodgy landlord can squeeze out of a place like that if they cram enough people in.

 

[marty21]

You can actually see the place on Google Maps: Google Maps

As you say it's really surprising something like that exists in that location - it actually looks out onto the park, it must be worth a fortune. I guess it shows just how much money a dodgy landlord can squeeze out of a place like that if they cram enough people in.

It's quite common place - I know a bloke locally who lives in Clapton, in a house, divided into 13 studio/bedsits, he pays £1300 a month I think (which is covered by HB) and he thinks the majority of the residents are on HB or UC to cover the rent. It is a 5/6 bed house - the landlord is coining it in, Rough guess if all the rents are the same, is around £878,000 per year in rent. So this guy with 22 residents in an area with higher rents , he must be making double that? so half a mil still leaves him with plenty of profit.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

It's quite common place - I know a bloke locally who lives in Clapton, in a house, divided into 13 studio/bedsits, he pays £1300 a month I think (which is covered by HB) and he thinks the majority of the residents are on HB or UC to cover the rent. It is a 5/6 bed house - the landlord is coining it in, Rough guess if all the rents are the same, is around £878,000 per year in rent. So this guy with 22 residents in an area with higher rents , he must be making double that? so half a mil still leaves him with plenty of profit.

Yeah I'm certainly not surprised it happens, but I am a bit surprised to see it happens in that particular location. Presumably a building that size there must be worth tens of millions, that the landlord sees it as preferable to run it like that rather than just flog it to some developers is a bit of an eye-opener.

 

[marty21]

Yeah I'm certainly not surprised it happens, but I am a bit surprised to see it happens in that particular location. Presumably a building that size there must be worth tens of millions, that the landlord sees it as preferable to run it like that rather than just flog it to some developers is a bit of an eye-opener.

yep, but he is making fairly easy money on it until he decides to sell, and clearly not spending a lot to maintain it.

 

[pbsmooth]

I wonder how he even came to own it. Must have been worth a lot for a long while.