The first few seconds of the Big Bang: What we know and what we don't

[Orang Utan]

As I just said, our models break down. It might turn to be the case that there was no "before". Like asking "what's beyond the edge of the Earth", when as it turns out, there is no edge.

And before that?

 

[NoXion]

And before that?

Before what?

 

[teuchter]

There wasn't a "before" the big bang, because time is a property of the universe created. There isn't an "outside" for the universe to expand into, because space is a property of the universe inside its finite expanding boundary.

This is why in my opinion the universe is not expanding. The universe is and always will be the same size (size=1 universe) but the things inside it are all getting smaller.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

As I just said, our models break down. It might turn to be the case that there was no "before". Like asking "what's beyond the edge of the Earth", when as it turns out, there is no edge.

The world has got an edge though. You’re stood on it, and you can go upwards away from it

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

This is why in my opinion the universe is not expanding. The universe is and always will be the same size (size=1 universe) but the things inside it are all getting smaller.

 

[NoXion]

The world has got an edge though. You’re stood on it, and you can go upwards away from it

No, that's a surface, which is planar. An edge is linear.

 

[Orang Utan]

Before what?

The alleged beginning

 

[NoXion]

The alleged beginning

What makes you think there was anything before?

 

[Orang Utan]

What makes you think there was anything before?

There must be.

 

[Pickman's model]

There must be.

Because...

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

The world has got an edge though. You’re stood on it, and you can go upwards away from it

You're comparing the Earth, a 3 dimensional object within the universe, with the universe itself - a 4* dimensional object.

*actually more, but let's keep it simple for visualisation purposes.

 

[Pickman's model]

You're comparing the Earth, a 3 dimensional object within the universe, with the universe itself - a 4* dimensional object.

*actually more, but let's keep it simple for visualisation purposes.

We actually have a 5* universe

 

[Orang Utan]

Because...

There’s always a before

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

We actually have a 5* universe

According to your Yelp review maybe.

 

[NoXion]

There must be.

Why? Because your intuition says so? Our intuition also tells us that preferred reference frames exist, but as it turns out we live in a relativistic universe.

 

[Pickman's model]

There’s always a before

I don't see why

 

[NoXion]

There’s always a before

Prove it.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

There’s always a before

"Before" is only a concept which existed from the moment of creation onwards. So there wasn't a before.

 

[Orang Utan]

Prove it.

No you prove it

 

[Orang Utan]

"Before" is only a concept which existed from the moment of creation onwards. So there wasn't a before.

There must have been a before before the not before

 

[NoXion]

No you prove it

You're the one making the positive claim that time extends infinitely into the past. The burden of evidence is upon your shoulders, not mine.

 

[weltweit]

Thinking humans can't conceive of how infinitesimally small and insignificant we are. We are one of seven billion on planet earth which is one in a trillion trillion trillion trillion other planets and stars in this part of the galaxy. A galaxy which is one in a trillion trillion trillion trillion other galaxies and universes.

 

[Orang Utan]

You're the one making the positive claim that time extends infinitely into the past. The burden of evidence is upon your shoulders, not mine.

I have no intention of shouldering that burden. You’re the scientist. You solve it with your white coats and your labs and your microscopes

 

[NoXion]

I have no intention of shouldering that burden. You’re the scientist. You solve it with your white coats and your labs and your microscopes

Why should other people substantiate your assumptions?

 

[Orang Utan]

Why should other people substantiate your assumptions?

I haven’t got a lab. Get to work

 

[NoXion]

I haven’t got a lab. Get to work

What grants are you prepared to offer?

 

[discokermit]

As I just said, our models break down. It might turn to be the case that there was no "before". Like asking "what's beyond the edge of the Earth", when as it turns out, there is no edge.

i built a model plane but my model broke down before i reached new york. i now declare new york does not exist according to my model, which is correct in every detail except for being made of balsa.

 

[discokermit]

Why should other people substantiate your assumptions?

he claims time and the universe existed today like it did yesterday and the day before. you are the one claiming that ages ago none of it existed. i think its you who has to offer the proof.

 

[Orang Utan]

What grants are you prepared to offer?

A couple of pies

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

There must have been a before before the not before

You raise an interesting point. Before the before there wasn't a before, so the not before isn't actually a not before (which is an after), but an absence of before.