Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
apparently he died today: but yesterday he seems to have been in good health. no windows were involved
the death of alexei navalny 16.2.24
- Thread starter Pickman's model
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Elpenor
a clown’s heart and a mandolin
Asking as a complete novice on the topic, Are these views a bit like the NF “aint no black in the Union Jack” message of the 70s / 80s?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh but western governments rarely think deeper than 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
and that's all he'd ever be
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
And how has that worked out for them so far?
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
I think such views are a lot more common in Russia then they would have been even in the darkest days of 70s UK. When I was in St. Petersburg, I was advised not to go outside on Hitler's birthday, as I was recognizably foreign.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
better than you might suppose
Well I am sad to learn of his death at 47.
RTE news had it that he felt unwell after a walk and collapsed.
I know @Idris2000 you have jumped in there to point out his faults but he was also a better person than Putin in many many ways not least the fact he didnt murder people.
I cannot imagine anyone standing up to Putin the way he did now.
Good article from 2021 on the development of Navalny from opponent to Putin to his move towards ultra nationalism..
www.newyorker.com
RTE news had it that he felt unwell after a walk and collapsed.
I know @Idris2000 you have jumped in there to point out his faults but he was also a better person than Putin in many many ways not least the fact he didnt murder people.
I cannot imagine anyone standing up to Putin the way he did now.
Good article from 2021 on the development of Navalny from opponent to Putin to his move towards ultra nationalism..
The Evolution of Alexey Navalny’s Nationalism
The Russian opposition politician has placed the right to self-determination at the center of his politics.
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PTK
Paul Kegan
"How can you stop the Shah of Iran?" asked some. And the answer was "not by supporting a right-wing movement".
PTK
Paul Kegan
I would say his views were worse than those of the average member of the National Front.
I don't know much about the bloke but saying he's 'a better person than Putin' feels like damning him with faint praise...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Well I am sad to learn of his death at 47.
RTE news had it that he felt unwell after a walk and collapsed.
I know @Idris2000 you have jumped in there to point out his faults but he was also a better person than Putin in many many ways not least the fact he didnt murder people.
I cannot imagine anyone standing up to Putin the way he did now.
Good article from 2021 on the development of Navalny from opponent to Putin to his move towards ultra nationalism..
The Evolution of Alexey Navalny’s Nationalism
The Russian opposition politician has placed the right to self-determination at the center of his politics.
I think its often easy to forget that despite him making a video of him murdering a Muslim and advocating murdering Muslims that he actually didn't in real life murder Muslims.
Again.. fair
ska invita
back on the other side
sounds like he had more than "faults"
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
Not one of the good guys, though he significantly changed his position in later years, according to that 2021 profile posted upthread
In 2015, the Polish journalist and former dissident Adam Michnik and Navalny recorded a series of conversations that Michnik compiled into a book. “My idea is that you have to communicate with nationalists and educate them,” Navalny told Michnik. “Many Russian nationalists have no clear ideology. What they have is a sense of general injustice to which they respond with aggression against people with a different skin color or eyes of a different shape. I think it’s extremely important to explain to them that beating up migrants is not the solution to the problem of illegal immigration; the solution is a return to competitive elections that would allow us to get rid of the thieves and crooks who are getting rich off of illegal immigration.”
Navalny’s political views have developed in an unusually public way over the past decade. He has never apologized for his earliest xenophobic videos or his decision to attend the Russian March. At the same time, he has adopted increasingly left-leaning economic positions and has come out in support of the right to same-sex marriage. This strategy of adopting new positions—without ever explicitly denouncing old ones—is probably the reason the suspicion of ethno-nationalism continues to shadow Navalny.
In 2015, the Polish journalist and former dissident Adam Michnik and Navalny recorded a series of conversations that Michnik compiled into a book. “My idea is that you have to communicate with nationalists and educate them,” Navalny told Michnik. “Many Russian nationalists have no clear ideology. What they have is a sense of general injustice to which they respond with aggression against people with a different skin color or eyes of a different shape. I think it’s extremely important to explain to them that beating up migrants is not the solution to the problem of illegal immigration; the solution is a return to competitive elections that would allow us to get rid of the thieves and crooks who are getting rich off of illegal immigration.”
Navalny’s political views have developed in an unusually public way over the past decade. He has never apologized for his earliest xenophobic videos or his decision to attend the Russian March. At the same time, he has adopted increasingly left-leaning economic positions and has come out in support of the right to same-sex marriage. This strategy of adopting new positions—without ever explicitly denouncing old ones—is probably the reason the suspicion of ethno-nationalism continues to shadow Navalny.
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
I thought it as weird how he was having a "walk" two days after he was sentenced to 15 days in a punishment cell, but he was apparently allowed outside at the coldest time of day
Apart from spending time in a frigid, cramped cell, inmates in punishment cells are also limited in their ability to exercise, spending time in a tiny walled courtyard with a roof of prison bars. In his new penal colony in the Arctic, for instance, Mr. Navalny was only allowed to go out in the mornings, while it was still dark and the temperatures were at their lowest point.
“It’s never been colder than -25°F.,” Mr. Navalny wrote in a social media post in January, describing his walks. “Even at that temperature you can walk for more than half an hour, but only if you have time to grow a new nose, ears, and fingers.”
Live Updates: Navalny’s Death Would Deprive Russia of Leading Opposition Voice
Aleksei A. Navalny died in prison, the Russian authorities said. The anticorruption campaigner rose to become the most prominent critic of President Vladimir V. Putin.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Angelo Giuliano is also definitely not one of the "good guys", given the antiSemitic nature of the posts he makes and his fawning apologism for tyranny.
As to the 2% claim, many of the Russians I teach seemed to prefer him to the current incumbent. I had tears in class today, which messed up the pairwork activity. She said it felt like the death of hope. I was surprised that hope had lived that long.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I found this obituary an insightful read.
postsocialism.org
Russia lost its greatest, and most naïve optimist*. A curmudgeon’s obituary of Alexei Navalny
Navalny for mayor (2013) Charismatic and intelligent. But too keenly aware of himself as both these things. Angry, frustrated – for good reason. Perhaps reckless, lacking strategic thinking. Narrow…
postsocialism.org
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
Well, this is embarassing. I had only tried to put in the video of N's anti-Chechen advert. I had not of this Angelo Giuliano before this: I defer to your greater knowledge of far-right apologists for tyranny and anti-semitism.
Just looking at RTE's coverage of Navalny's death this evening, it's still the same vibe as there was with Khodorkovsky - somewhere out there is the plausible westernising liberal, or liberal westerniser, who is going to save Russia from itself. I think that's delusional, and if there are Russian liberals who could delude themselves that way, so much the worse for them, though you'd have to sympathise if they feel like all hope is now dead. As for the stuff further up the thread about N moderating his views and trying to do missionary work among the Russian nationalists, to me that reads like flim-flam to keep his western admirers onside.
Not sure who mistakenly tripped him on some icy Arctic stairs. "Puťĺer" probably won't be crying a huge bunch of tears.
But as UA seems to be losing the key fortress of Adiivka near Donetzk and the Munich security conference on where Navalny's wife and UA President Zelenskyi are gracing the red carpet, he was also possibly today worth more dead than alive to Western interests.
But as UA seems to be losing the key fortress of Adiivka near Donetzk and the Munich security conference on where Navalny's wife and UA President Zelenskyi are gracing the red carpet, he was also possibly today worth more dead than alive to Western interests.
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