And there are writers who you need to double or triple take their books. Like Atonement. If I'd just picked it up and tried reading it I'd have dismissed it as it was hard to start with, it took about 3 goes of the first 30 pages for me...
The Dark Knight review: Gutted
- Thread starter Wookey
- Start date
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Yep, deffo as good as Apocalypse Now, never been a fan of the Godfather though...
Yeah, between you and me, I found Godfather to be quite slow. But I can see the quality in it. I actually think that these Batman films achieve the same epic scope, but much more taut and focussed.
I was just reading through this thread and people's reactions are so bizarre. You'd think it was like X men 3 or Fantastic Four or something from how they're all bitching on. And then you get Johnny who defends any old piece of shit cheese, slagging it off and saying it's bog standard cheese.
I was just reading through this thread and people's reactions are so bizarre. You'd think it was like X men 3 or Fantastic Four or something from how they're all bitching on. And then you get Johnny who defends any old piece of shit cheese, slagging it off and saying it's bog standard cheese.
While 'Shakespearean' is a slight exaggeration, I still reckon that there is something very play-like about it. I can't believe someone said the script was bad. How many Hollywood films have they actually seen? The script was top notch. Very odd. the action scenes are merely moving the story along, the story is about the characters, and one character's fall from grace. That is fundamentally theatrical/classical.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
TwoFaces fall from grace was presented as a consequence of his pussy liberalism. Bale ground out his lines like a man chewing broken glass, and the Joker's morl quandaries were very GCSE.
That said, I watched it twice. And that bit where Ledge impales a gangster via a pencil through the eye got re-wound and watched at least five times
That said, I watched it twice. And that bit where Ledge impales a gangster via a pencil through the eye got re-wound and watched at least five times
The words Ledger gets are very theatrical. Jack Nicholson's Joker was much more standard Hollywood, endless cheesy oneliners.
If you were one of the city's most famous playboys, and you went round dressed up as a Bat, would you speak in your normal voice? I doubt I would. People seem to think that was him trying to be scary, and think they've missed the point somewhat.
If you were one of the city's most famous playboys, and you went round dressed up as a Bat, would you speak in your normal voice? I doubt I would. People seem to think that was him trying to be scary, and think they've missed the point somewhat.
kained&able
Here for the football.
It's the best superhero(even though batman isn't a super hero) film by a long long way.
It is easily in the best action films of all time only behind the bourne films & possibly only ultimatum at that.
Oh and all the star wars films obviously but that goes without saying as they are the best films in every category.
Its fucking superb.
dave
It is easily in the best action films of all time only behind the bourne films & possibly only ultimatum at that.
Oh and all the star wars films obviously but that goes without saying as they are the best films in every category.
Its fucking superb.
dave
And I don't elevate particular types of films as 'only' being worthy of 'best film ever' status. I only said Apocalypse Now and godfather cos they're the standard ones that get cited. I would include, say, Groundhog Day and Hana Bi in those. But how on earth is one meant to say that Groundhog Day is better than Hana Bi, or vice versa? One can't. So, if a superhero/comic book film is done this well, there's no reason it can't be considered alongside (albeit differently) any other film which one considers best film ever.
If one applied this to music, one wouldn't consider, say, Madonna or Bob Marley as great artists.
If one applied this to music, one wouldn't consider, say, Madonna or Bob Marley as great artists.
And it's far more sophisticated than Bourne 
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
The Bourne films are all very tight, fast paced thrillers tho, and it's only when you take the whole arc of the story into account can you look at the overriding themes: men can only find their identity with the support of women; governments create weapons they can't control if they misfire.
They are ace, but merely 'very good movies' rather than that blurring of the line...
I liked the second one best cos of the beginning in Goa. Someone I taught with in China said that it was that scene that, in part, persuaded them to sell their house and car, pack in their long term jobs and come and teach English in China. They ended up in a city of 8 million
I know what they meant though.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
It is interesting to look at the books here as well as the films.
The book has a state assasin gone bad as well, but his badness is in relation to having half his skull blown off and slowly re-discovering his purpose.
In many ways the Bourne films ring truer for me than even new Bond. The assassin is no wisecracking superhero. He is a total fuckup emotionally and has a very narrow and lethal skillset.
There is no 'smoke me a kipper I'll be home for breakfast' style grandiose bastardry, simply a well trained man with an agenda. The faceless, compassionless nightmare of an opponent just working over those that stand in his way. It feels real. The idea of the ruthless murderer who stops off at the sweetshop to get his kids some treats doesn't ring true when you are thinking of black/grey ops. Forget all that banality of evil shit, Bourne is a convincing assassin
kained&able
Here for the football.
I refuse to talk about the bourne books and the films at the same time, they have nothing to do with each other. I love em both though.
I'm fairly sure the bourne films kinda redfeined action films.(along with 24) the camera angles, the flaws of the lead character and the less cheesy duologue were all as a result of the bourne films. Without bourne i don't think there would have been things like the last bond, the two new batmans or watchmen etc.
I see why they killed her though they had to have him coming back to civilisation and gunning for revenge and about the only way to do it was by kill Marie. It was also ridiculously unexpected as i expected her to survive to the end, which is always nice.
dave
I'm fairly sure the bourne films kinda redfeined action films.(along with 24) the camera angles, the flaws of the lead character and the less cheesy duologue were all as a result of the bourne films. Without bourne i don't think there would have been things like the last bond, the two new batmans or watchmen etc.
I see why they killed her though they had to have him coming back to civilisation and gunning for revenge and about the only way to do it was by kill Marie. It was also ridiculously unexpected as i expected her to survive to the end, which is always nice.
dave
Gromit
International Man of Misery
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Yeah, but it sets up the rest of the story. If she wasn't shot by accident Bourne wouldn't have gone all out to wreak his revenge, as he promised to do so, on those who created Treadstone (and indeed, the only reason that happened was because of a side deal Vaughan did with the Russian by way of setting up a retirement fund)
Echoing what dotty said too, Bourne reminds me a great deal of Mitch Leary from In The Line Of Fire - a completely broken man who has been abandoned like a wind-up toy, who develops the capacity to wind himself.
Echoing what dotty said too, Bourne reminds me a great deal of Mitch Leary from In The Line Of Fire - a completely broken man who has been abandoned like a wind-up toy, who develops the capacity to wind himself.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
You can see why they did it but yeah, that was annoying. They should have just left out the happy ending from the first one IMO.
elevendayempire
Registered Loofah
Thought that was brilliant - utterly unexpected, and it changes the whole tone of the first film in retrospect. When you watch the first one in isolation, that bit where she wrestles with whether or not to help him is a standard bit of Hollywood fayre; watched with the foreknowledge of the second film, it becomes heart-wrenching; the moment this innocent girl dooms herself, by trying to do the right thing. And, it makes clear, if you as a civilian get involved in all this CIA black-ops shit, you will die. Hollywood rules don't apply.
kained&able
Here for the football.
I've always presumed that the first was done as complete stand alone originally to see if the concept would work and once it made money 2/3(and indeed allegedly 4, soon) were written and made and further expanded upon.
dave
dave
I didn't think they had much of a story arc like the batman films have though, they're really exciting to watch and that, but ultimately it's just someone running along, beating people up and dodging getting caught.
kained&able
Here for the football.
Watch them again if you think that! Your very wrong.
There is a lot happening, also a lot that is kinda left to the viewers imagination(like that nickki girl for example, there is definitely a back story between bourne and her but at least at the moment we are all guessing((dont think she was in the book either so no clues there.)
dave
There is a lot happening, also a lot that is kinda left to the viewers imagination(like that nickki girl for example, there is definitely a back story between bourne and her but at least at the moment we are all guessing((dont think she was in the book either so no clues there.)
dave
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
I don't even see her wrestling that much - first off it's the offer of the $20K that she gives all of 30 seconds thought to, then after the scene in Paris and his asking her to find the hotel records she is clearly getting off on the adrenalin (something that would be in character with her background of rootlessness)...altho now I realise I'm getting way to far into this...
The Batman films don't have a story arc, aside from Bruce and whatsherface.
I really like them, the individual films just don't stick in my head at all..
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I've been of work sick today and have watched this again I have also just watched the watchmen film and while the Dark Knight is a pretty good action film I though Watchmen was vastly superior.
The word watch appears far too much in that sentence!
The word watch appears far too much in that sentence!
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Director's Cut or cinema release version of Watchmen?
Watchmen is a very different beastie IMV - it's a poltical thriller with people with superpowers, rather than a straight up 'hero' movie. It's a lot more 'adult' in the way it works, but many level the possibly justified criticism that it sticks too slavishly to the comic (I refuse to use the term 'graphic novel')...personally I think that's a plus and that those selfsame people would have bitched had it not been frame-perfect but y'know...anyway, different film styles completely. Less people I know were baffled by TDK than Watchmen when they came out of the cinema
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
That wasn't a rating compiled on people saying what they thought the best film ever was - it was a rating based on what percentage of people gave the film a really high star rating. So it was the film that the largest number of people thought was excellent, rather than the film that was voted best film ever.
That's five 'films' in one paragraph.
I've only seen the first Bourne film - I just couldn't get into it, though I'm willing to try again. Don't need to see the second one now, of course - thanks Santino.
I've done you a favour.I've only seen the first Bourne film - I just couldn't get into it, though I'm willing to try again. Don't need to see the second one now, of course - thanks Santino.
I can remember almost nothing about the rest of the film, incidentally. That's how exciting it was.
stupid dogbot
Haughty and Superior
Yeah, I realise how IMDB ratings work. I also realise the actual value of user ratings.
I mean, look how many people on there gave I Am Legend 10...
