danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Jesus.
Terrorist attacks and beheadings in France
- Thread starter Spymaster
- Start date
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
I mean, case rested.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
"We're going to discuss tolerance of homosexuality but I can't tell you what homosexuality is, as it may offend some of you".
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Not at all. If the context was people being upset with homosexuals kissing in public it would not be necessary to show homosexuals kissing to discuss the subject effectively.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Gita Sahgal
“In France the teachers' unions organised a solidarity tribute to Samuel Paty. In Britain, the unions would likely have signed a statement denouncing Islamophobia and the threat to Muslims - conflating Islamist interests with Muslim views”.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Nonsense.
“We’re going to discuss homosexuality. Homosexuality is the attraction of two people of the same sex to each other ....”
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
No further questions.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
None of which is happening here.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
A cartoon or novel doesn't kill doesn't oppress doesn't deny your rights
It just annoys although most of the people screaming about Rushdie haven't read the novel.
If you can't cope with being offended fuck off back to some shithole. The price of admission to the modern world is not having your faith be respected.
It just annoys although most of the people screaming about Rushdie haven't read the novel.
If you can't cope with being offended fuck off back to some shithole. The price of admission to the modern world is not having your faith be respected.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Goes home. "Mum, dad, they're teaching us about same sex relationships".
Most parents: ok.
Religious nutters: WHAT???! OUTRAGE
fairly sure this is bullshit tbf.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Like I said above somewhere, nearly everyone getting offended will not have seen the cartoons, or read the book, or whatever. The cartoons published in Denmark some years ago provoked outrage, death threats and deaths around the world. Those cartoons were not show in school. Didn't matter. What does matter is that some religious, authoritarian bastards towards the top of the religious hierarchy order their followers to get angry and uptight, and some of them, particularly the male ones, obey.
Graymalkin
Ironclad Activist
Ok, given prevailing heteropatriarchy in most societies, would it not be in the interest of promoting acceptance/tolerance to show positive images of queer relationships?
Athos
Well-Known Member
If you show straight people kissing, then the idea that you shouldn't show gay people kissing because it offends some people is well dodgy.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
"Today children, we're going to talk about equality. If your religion teaches you that women are inferior and that homosexuality is evil, you may be excused".
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
In ab ideal world* we should be encouraging/facilitating/supporting those who (perhaps tentatively) share our progressive values but who live in sites where this is a dangerous, minority, perspective. Gestures of solidarity, channels if communication, safe spaces. material aid etc.
And, I know that this does happen.
...bit we have to be very mindful of competing power dynamics. Many here will (rightly) be critical of top-down multiculturalism. I know I am.
So, it's worth just pausing for a second and considering the power relations in and around a classroom of the sort in this incident.
...and there are several, competing ones, at play.
As there will be in any scenario.
We have to unlock and navigate these if we want to change them.
*obviously in an ideal, ideal, world neither religion nor education would exist in the form and content it does now. But you get my drift.
And, I know that this does happen.
...bit we have to be very mindful of competing power dynamics. Many here will (rightly) be critical of top-down multiculturalism. I know I am.
So, it's worth just pausing for a second and considering the power relations in and around a classroom of the sort in this incident.
...and there are several, competing ones, at play.
As there will be in any scenario.
We have to unlock and navigate these if we want to change them.
*obviously in an ideal, ideal, world neither religion nor education would exist in the form and content it does now. But you get my drift.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
If that was what happened here I'd agree with you but it's not. Nothing like it. Once again it's not the subject matter that's the issue here but the way it's taught.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
It’s exactly like that.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Your hole isn’t getting any shallower.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
No, it’s the way a murderer chopped a teacher’s head off.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
I mean, yes. But people here are arguing that it would be offensive and so shouldn’t be done.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Primary sources are always a benefit to a lesson . To allow any outside reason to interfere with that, particularly a supposed moral language of offence being caused, is plain wrong.
And for you to shrug off a death as "if that means I am victim blaming then so be it" is a little bit appalling.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
The teacher is not the issue. The murderer is.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
In some contects, yes. In the context where there is current uproar amongst certain people about a very specific thing, some of those people are likely to be represented in your classroom and there's no need to graphically illustrate that specific thing to make your point, I'd question it.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
It seems that the killer in this case was Chechen. His actions may be better viewed in relation to the treatment the Chechen people have received at the hands of the Russian state. Firstly their violent conquest by the Tsars. Then their deportation to Central Asia under Stalin, in which maybe half the Chechen population died. Finally the brutal suppression of the independence movement in the 1990's. And a whole lot more in between.
This has left a society brutalised in many ways and a diaspora of often rootless individuals, some of whom are easily captured by extremist religious fanaticism.
This has left a society brutalised in many ways and a diaspora of often rootless individuals, some of whom are easily captured by extremist religious fanaticism.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
So how graphic is TOO graphic? What about showing a gay couple holding hands?
Back to where?
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
"But Sir, what are those pictures? You can't expect us to discuss a picture without seeing it" - would be any pupil's question.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
There's no hole mate. You're burying yourself in the ridiculous notion that to discuss a subject it's necessary or desirable to cause gratuitous offence.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Jesus fuck this thread.
What sort of twisted liberalism on display here starts at someone being beheaded for showing some cartoons in a classroom, and ends up with basically women/LGBT* people going about their lives being somehow 'provocative' towards someone else's sensibilities - especially religious ones? Wearing short skirts, sitting next to men on public transport, gay people kissing?
Urban. I can't even.
* and I am going to single out TIQ people here as they are the liberals punch bag of the moment - by some of the logic here and what we've seen in discourse over the last couple of years, you can see how we end up at the situation where every time a trans person for example goes out into the street or uses the toilet of their acquired gender, that they are seen as being 'deliberately provocative'.
What sort of twisted liberalism on display here starts at someone being beheaded for showing some cartoons in a classroom, and ends up with basically women/LGBT* people going about their lives being somehow 'provocative' towards someone else's sensibilities - especially religious ones? Wearing short skirts, sitting next to men on public transport, gay people kissing?
Urban. I can't even.
* and I am going to single out TIQ people here as they are the liberals punch bag of the moment - by some of the logic here and what we've seen in discourse over the last couple of years, you can see how we end up at the situation where every time a trans person for example goes out into the street or uses the toilet of their acquired gender, that they are seen as being 'deliberately provocative'.
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