Teenage neo nazi gets 11 years for ‘plotting terror’.

[bimble]

Quite a lot of detail in this article.
I don’t know if sentence is a bit extreme, seems long. Nothing about reading the classics.

Derbyshire: Teenage neo-Nazi jailed for over 11 years for murder plot

Matthew Cronjager was sentenced to 11 years and four months in youth detention at the Old Bailey.

metro.co.uk

 

[cupid_stunt]

He's a racist and was plotting murder, 11 years seems reasonable to me.

 

[planetgeli]

Probably good he didn't live in the USA.

 

[The39thStep]

‘The strange thing was it wasn’t just the fact that Matt was plotting to kill me that hurt initially, it was the fact that we had been having serious conversations about our future, and we had been exchanging Christmas greetings, meanwhile in the background he was planning to make that my last Christmas, that really hurt.’

Hopefully, this was reflected in the sentencing

 

[bimble]

I don’t know. Undercover officer on his internet chat is why he got caught. Where the line is between posting terrible shit on the internet and actually plotting terror isn’t clear to me. It’s not like he actually procured a weapon.

Sentence is longer than the average manslaughter time.
I’m not sad for him I just think preventative incarceration is a worry in general.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I don’t know. Undercover officer on his internet chat is why he got caught. Where the line is between posting terrible shit on the internet and actually plotting terror isn’t clear to me. It’s not like he actually procured a weapon.
Sentence is longer than the average manslaughter time.
I’m not sad for him I just think preventative incarceration is a worry in general.

Oh hang, 'he created an online library to share right-wing propaganda and explosives-making manuals', plus, 'he had admitted four charges of possessing terror documents on the first day of his trial', that's serious shit.

 

[BillRiver]

I'm curious as to the definition of a "terror document" there though.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Weird story. On the face of it he is an autistic lonely fantasist. 11 years seems excessive but no doubt there was stuff that came out in the trial that hasn't been reported.

 

[BillRiver]

Also, I don't believe for a second that spending several years incarcerated by the state will change or improve his views, and I feel for those locked up along side him.

 

[bimble]

I'm curious as to the definition of a "terror document" there though.

I think it’s this ?

Terrorism Act 2000

An Act to make provision about terrorism; and to make temporary provision for Northern Ireland about the prosecution and punishment of certain offences, the preservation of peace and the maintenance of order.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[BillRiver]

I think it’s this ?

Terrorism Act 2000

An Act to make provision about terrorism; and to make temporary provision for Northern Ireland about the prosecution and punishment of certain offences, the preservation of peace and the maintenance of order.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Those definitions are very wide open.

Reminds me of the case of Samar and Jawad, two Palestinian students who were wrongly convicted of a car bomb outside the Israeli embassy in London in the mid 1990's. Nobody was injured and the embassy cctv just happened to be turned off at the relevant time. Evidence against them was flimsy at best, and included Palestine rights magazines found in their homes, iirc.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I'm curious as to the definition of a "terror document" there though.

Basically, ‘bomb-making’ manuals.

 

[BillRiver]

Basically, ‘bomb-making’ manuals.

Not necessarily, although possibly.

I know it hasn't always meant that, though, in other cases.

Usually, when that's what they mean, then that's what they say. Other times they are more vague. Hence my pondering.

 

[bimble]

it is just a really weird story, even down to how the victim was definitely his friend, who initially thought it must be a joke, but police made it clear to him that he really was to be murdered for having sex whilst not being white. I dunno.

 

[hitmouse]

The timing makes an interesting contrast to the Pearson/Embery/Hitchens/Phillips/etc brigade who've frothing and whining about how bad Ridley Road is.

Those definitions are very wide open.

Reminds me of the case of Samar and Jawad, two Palestinian students who were wrongly convicted of a car bomb outside the Israeli embassy in London in the mid 1990's. Nobody was injured and the embassy cctv just happened to be turned off at the relevant time. Evidence against them was flimsy at best, and included Palestine rights magazines found in their homes, iirc.

Or indeed the Hitcham Yezza case, etc.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Not necessarily, although possibly.

I know it hasn't always meant that, though, in other cases.

Usually, when that's what they mean, then that's what they say. Other times they are more vague. Hence my pondering.

The report clearly states - 'he created an online library to share right-wing propaganda and explosives-making manuals'

 

[BillRiver]

The report clearly states - 'he created an online library to share right-wing propaganda and explosives-making manuals'

Allegedly.

He admitted to the four charges of possessing terror documents.

Were those the alleged explosives-making documents or were they something else? It's not clear. Recent history leads me to want to avoid assumptions.

 

[bimble]

this just made me laugh sort of. reading about when in 1995 it became illegal in america to distribute bomb making instructions on the internet:

'Although it was frequently said to be in response to Timothy McVeigh's Oklahoma bombing, he had actually used two traditional hard-copy books titled Homemade C-4, A Recipe for Survival and Ragnar's Big Book of Homemade Weapons and Improvised Explosives. Critics later pointed out both books were still for sale at Amazon.com..'

Still available too. With reviews from other readers.

 

[nogojones]

Oh hang, 'he created an online library to share right-wing propaganda and explosives-making manuals', plus, 'he had admitted four charges of possessing terror documents on the first day of his trial', that's serious shit.

A torrent of the anarchist cookbook, some Abbie Hoffman and a couple of others could have been that "library"

 

[ouirdeaux]

Well, quite. On what I can see, though obviously something should happen with him, locking him up for much longer than people who have actually harmed others looks like they're just going for the low-hanging fruit.

 

[dessiato]

As an aside, bomb making is really easy as anyone who has done O or A level chemistry will know.

 

[bimble]

As an aside, bomb making is really easy as anyone who has done O or A level chemistry will know.

you can just buy a book off amazon if you're a bit rusty.

 

[Pickman's model]

you can just buy a book off amazon if you're a bit rusty.

Why would you want to do that when American army manuals detailing the manufacture of eg incendiary devices and shaped charges are a piece of piss to find and also free? Loads of auld paladin press titles are also out there on the internet ready to download. The wrong hands by Ann Larabee a very interesting book about popular weapons manuals (another woman author I'd heartily recommend)