Squire and Partners in Lambeth

[editor]

So a private business with no obligation whatsoever to offer community events within their premises occasionally chooses to do so, sometimes for a small admission fee. A question comes to mind for those who think this amounts to shunning the community.

The great majority of companies in Brixton and elsewhere have of course never, ever, offered any part of their space for events for the public. So aren’t all these companies that never have opened up their premises for public access events also shunning the local community (much more so than S&P, many would argue)?

Do people look at businesses where the public wouldn’t be expected to have access to, whether accountant firms, financial institutions and countless others and actually think they have any kind of obligation to offer community events for the locals?

If so fair enough, but then it is ludicrous to single out S&P- and even more so since S&P at least offer some, small fee or not.

If not, I‘d like to understand how a company that never ever offers their office space for public events is community-inclusive but a company that sometimes does so is shunning the locals.

Why am I not surprised that you're so quick to defend this multi million business?

Mind you, I could have sworn that they blathered on about wanting to be part of the community in their PR blurb when they arrived. Oh wait, here it is:

“Brixton has a unique creative community and vibrancy which we are looking forward to being part of.”

In fact they love to throw around those #community hashtags:







Of course, being the wild rabid lefty I am, I personally feel that there should be an obligation for massive, wealthy businesses moving into the area to make some effort to engage with the community, especially if they're throwing the #community hashtag all over the place, and own a fucking huge building which has enough empty space to fit a vast amount of local start ups/community activities.

This lot have been very clever with their PR to sucker people in. Like banging on about a free use community space that suddenly starts charging, bribing in a black-owned record store for cred-points and opening a private rooftop bar with 'free membership' for locals - until that runs out a year later and they've out on their arse.

Very clever way of neutering any negative feedback.

 

[BakeRecords]

Some news on Squire and Partners. They've just been given planning permission for offices and a bar/restaurant on the site of the annex at the back of Toplin House, right in the middle of Bellefields Rd at the junction with Stockwell Avenue.

A few residents of Bellefields/Stockwell Ave objected in writing and in person at the Planning Applications Committee meeting, but to no avail. Bloody Lambeth recommended that permission is granted, and the Committee unanimously agreed.

That's two fingers from S&P to their neighbours. I find it hard to believe that anyone would think it's a good idea to put a bloody massive pub in the middle of a residential street. Since Canova Hall opened, the antisocial behaviour on Stockwell Ave has gotten worse, not better. Those bottomless brunches are a disgrace - vomit, empty glasses and cigarette butts strewn across the street are commonplace on an early Saturday afternoon, and this new place will make things worse, not better.

Squire turned up at the Planning meeting and gave some nauseating bullshit about how much they've invested in Brixton, how well behaved the members of their private club are, and how their club is totally inclusive. The Committee swallowed it whole. Particularly disappointing from the Councillor for the Ferndale Ward. I'd be interested to know how many people who live on the neighbouring streets are members of their ridiculous club.

 

[Twattor]

Some news on Squire and Partners. They've just been given planning permission for offices and a bar/restaurant on the site of the annex at the back of Toplin House, right in the middle of Bellefields Rd at the junction with Stockwell Avenue.

A few residents of Bellefields/Stockwell Ave objected in writing and in person at the Planning Applications Committee meeting, but to no avail. Bloody Lambeth recommended that permission is granted, and the Committee unanimously agreed.

That's two fingers from S&P to their neighbours. I find it hard to believe that anyone would think it's a good idea to put a bloody massive pub in the middle of a residential street. Since Canova Hall opened, the antisocial behaviour on Stockwell Ave has gotten worse, not better. Those bottomless brunches are a disgrace - vomit, empty glasses and cigarette butts strewn across the street are commonplace on an early Saturday afternoon, and this new place will make things worse, not better.

Squire turned up at the Planning meeting and gave some nauseating bullshit about how much they've invested in Brixton, how well behaved the members of their private club are, and how their club is totally inclusive. The Committee swallowed it whole. Particularly disappointing from the Councillor for the Ferndale Ward. I'd be interested to know how many people who live on the neighbouring streets are members of their ridiculous club.

Hang on a sec. Wasn't the Queen's on the corner of Ferndale and Bellefields? A pub that once offered all night boozing and rooms to transient party-goers?

Are we talking double standards here?

 

[lang rabbie]

Some news on Squire and Partners. They've just been given planning permission for offices and a bar/restaurant on the site of the annex at the back of Toplin House, right in the middle of Bellefields Rd at the junction with Stockwell Avenue.

Coming back for extra storeys and an A3 use once they already have a consent for the main scheme.
Squire's greedy behaviour is as bad as Tesco's.

 

[Gramsci]

Some news on Squire and Partners. They've just been given planning permission for offices and a bar/restaurant on the site of the annex at the back of Toplin House, right in the middle of Bellefields Rd at the junction with Stockwell Avenue.

A few residents of Bellefields/Stockwell Ave objected in writing and in person at the Planning Applications Committee meeting, but to no avail. Bloody Lambeth recommended that permission is granted, and the Committee unanimously agreed.

That's two fingers from S&P to their neighbours. I find it hard to believe that anyone would think it's a good idea to put a bloody massive pub in the middle of a residential street. Since Canova Hall opened, the antisocial behaviour on Stockwell Ave has gotten worse, not better. Those bottomless brunches are a disgrace - vomit, empty glasses and cigarette butts strewn across the street are commonplace on an early Saturday afternoon, and this new place will make things worse, not better.

Squire turned up at the Planning meeting and gave some nauseating bullshit about how much they've invested in Brixton, how well behaved the members of their private club are, and how their club is totally inclusive. The Committee swallowed it whole. Particularly disappointing from the Councillor for the Ferndale Ward. I'd be interested to know how many people who live on the neighbouring streets are members of their ridiculous club.

Thanks for this local residents view..

Found it on the recent planning committee agenda:

Agenda for Planning Applications Committee on Tuesday 5 March 2019, 7.00 pm | Lambeth Council

No minutes on Lambeth website yet. To recent a meeting.

Definitely looks like extension of Brixton bars to your street from looking at application.

The usual stuff from officers both mitigating disturbance to residents. Which doesn't work in practise as Lambeth haven't resources to enforce conditions.

Yes I noticed in the application several pages of Squires going on about how community minded they are.

This is commercial development. Its got nothing to do with the local community.

 

[Gramsci]

Hang on a sec. Wasn't the Queen's on the corner of Ferndale and Bellefields? A pub that once offered all night boozing and rooms to transient party-goers?

Are we talking double standards here?

I wondered when the usual suspects would pitch in.

Nice way to greet a new poster.

Accusing new poster of hypocrisy.

 

[Twattor]

I wondered when the usual suspects would pitch in.

Nice way to greet a new poster.

Accusing new poster of hypocrisy.

I'll accept I posted in reaction to a post without having done any research but based on local knowledge. I'll go away and do some digging and come back in a bit.

I still hate the antipathetic response on these forums to anyone that challenges the hive mind.

Also, since when did I become a "usual suspect"? I've always tried to be unusual. And not a suspect. Or at least have a good alibi...

 

[Gramsci]

I'll accept I posted in reaction to a post without having done any research but based on local knowledge. I'll go away and do some digging and come back in a bit.

I still hate the antipathetic response on these forums to anyone that challenges the hive mind.

Also, since when did I become a "usual suspect"? I've always tried to be unusual. And not a suspect. Or at least have a good alibi...

The "hive mind" is all you. Anyone who comes on this thread saying something critical of Squires is liable to get jumped on.

Even when they are new poster. Taking the trouble to post up info from local resident.

The post they put up contradicts the "hive mind" that dislikes criticism of Squires.

No wonder its difficult to get new posters here it this is the reception they get.

You have demonstrated the hive mind that is prevalent in Brixton forum now not me.

 

[Twattor]

The "hive mind" is all you. Anyone who comes on this thread saying something critical of Squires is liable to get jumped on.

You have demonstrated the hive mind that is prevalent in Brixton forum now not me.

I disagree. The majority of the posts on this thread have always been dismissive of squire for their elitist clients (although that includes trades unions), their designs for private accommodation (although they also design social housing) and their appropriation of commercial space in Brixton which was underutilised.

So much irrational prejudice.

I'm not interested in prejudice and hate. Give me facts.

 

[Gramsci]

I disagree. The majority of the posts on this thread have always been dismissive of squire for their elitist clients (although that includes trades unions), their designs for private accommodation (although they also design social housing) and their appropriation of commercial space in Brixton which was underutilised.

So much irrational prejudice.

I'm not interested in prejudice and hate. Give me facts.

No its you that is full of prejudice. Jumping on a new poster who lives locally. Who says something that does not fit your views on Squires.

 

[Gramsci]

Some news on Squire and Partners. They've just been given planning permission for offices and a bar/restaurant on the site of the annex at the back of Toplin House, right in the middle of Bellefields Rd at the junction with Stockwell Avenue.

A few residents of Bellefields/Stockwell Ave objected in writing and in person at the Planning Applications Committee meeting, but to no avail. Bloody Lambeth recommended that permission is granted, and the Committee unanimously agreed.

That's two fingers from S&P to their neighbours. I find it hard to believe that anyone would think it's a good idea to put a bloody massive pub in the middle of a residential street. Since Canova Hall opened, the antisocial behaviour on Stockwell Ave has gotten worse, not better. Those bottomless brunches are a disgrace - vomit, empty glasses and cigarette butts strewn across the street are commonplace on an early Saturday afternoon, and this new place will make things worse, not better.

Squire turned up at the Planning meeting and gave some nauseating bullshit about how much they've invested in Brixton, how well behaved the members of their private club are, and how their club is totally inclusive. The Committee swallowed it whole. Particularly disappointing from the Councillor for the Ferndale Ward. I'd be interested to know how many people who live on the neighbouring streets are members of their ridiculous club.

Thanks for this post. I must apologize for the reception you got.

 

[Twattor]

No its you that is full of prejudice. Jumping on a new poster who lives locally. Who says something that does not fit your views on Squires.

Don't be silly. I'm probably far less prejudiced than you are.

 

[Gramsci]

Don't be silly. I'm probably far less prejudiced than you are.

I only started this as you decided to have a go at new poster. Accusing them of double standards.

That shows prejudice.

 

[Gramsci]

Coming back for extra storeys and an A3 use once they already have a consent for the main scheme.
Squire's greedy behaviour is as bad as Tesco's.

I was wondering about that. The original consent only got through on appeal.

 

[Twattor]

I only started this as you decided to have a go at new poster. Accusing them of double standards.

That shows prejudice.

Rubbish. Apologies BakeRecords you stepped into a silly argument that winds me up and I'm ashamed to say I didn't even look at your name.

Double standards argument still stands against many of the other posters here who'd prefer Brixton to be preserved in aspic circa 2000

 

[Gramsci]

Rubbish. Apologies BakeRecords you stepped into a silly argument that winds me up and I'm ashamed to say I didn't even look at your name.

Double standards argument still stands against many of the other posters here who'd prefer Brixton to be preserved in aspic circa 2000

Sorry what are you going on about?

I took issue with you having a go at a new poster.

Now you are justifying yourself by broadening it out to other posters here.

You started this. Not me.

I didn't jump to have a go. I went to see on Lambeth planning if a recent application had gone in and been at recent planning committee meeting.

Far from jumping in to accuse new poster of double standards I went to look up the "facts". And the facts showed an application had been agreed.

I also had a look to see where it exactly was on Bellefields road. To see its possible impact on that part of the street.

All these facts backed up what the new poster was saying about an application by Squires for that site being agreed.

 

[editor]

Hang on a sec. Wasn't the Queen's on the corner of Ferndale and Bellefields? A pub that once offered all night boozing and rooms to transient party-goers?

Are we talking double standards here?

It never ever offered "all night boozing." It did, however, have occasional lock-ins, which, by their very nature, had to be quiet or else they attract the attention of the law.

So your 'double standards' accusation is both insulting and nonsense.

 

[editor]

Double standards argument still stands against many of the other posters here who'd prefer Brixton to be preserved in aspic circa 2000

Stop posting rubbish, please.

 

[BakeRecords]

Thanks Gramsci and all. I read this board from time to time to keep up with local news, so I'm aware of the dynamics around here and wouldn't expect everyone to agree that this is a problem.

Squire claimed at the PAC meeting that this new proposal is less profitable than the previous one. He focused on the new office space for start-ups, making the case that this was some selfless contribution to Brixton, and that the pub was simply there to underwrite the costs for this office space. Thanks Mr Squire! What a guy.

As Gramsci says, all the conditions in the world will make no difference if there are no resources to enforce them. One of the Councillors made the ludicrous claim that a new pub would reduce antisocial behaviour on Stockwell Ave. That is totally contrary to my experience of Canova Hall. At least the people who used to drink at the Brixton Rd end of Stockwell Ave were polite. The punters at Canova Hall can be pretty terrible - spilling out onto the street from the smoking area, shouting, leering, vomiting, etc. I'm not looking forward to more of that on our street.

 

[Mr Retro]

The punters at Canova Hall can be pretty terrible - spilling out onto the street from the smoking area, shouting, leering, vomiting, etc. I'm not looking forward to more of that on our street.

I supported Squire and Partners opening up in Brixton but this sounds awful

 

[lang rabbie]

Get the impression from talking to several younger colleagues in the office who have tried eating out there that the management of Canova Hall have given up caring about the food and just looking to push as much booze as possible.

It appears the readers of Tripadvisor agree.

 

[alex_]

Get the impression from talking to several younger colleagues in the office who have tried eating out there that the management of Canova Hall have given up caring about the food and just looking to push as much booze as possible.

It appears the readers of Tripadvisor agree.
View attachment 163899 View attachment 163898

That means it’s pretty rubbish at everything.

 

[Gramsci]

Quotes didn't work.

 

[Gramsci]

Thanks Gramsci and all. I read this board from time to time to keep up with local news, so I'm aware of the dynamics around here and wouldn't expect everyone to agree that this is a problem.

Squire claimed at the PAC meeting that this new proposal is less profitable than the previous one. He focused on the new office space for start-ups, making the case that this was some selfless contribution to Brixton, and that the pub was simply there to underwrite the costs for this office space. Thanks Mr Squire! What a guy.

As Gramsci says, all the conditions in the world will make no difference if there are no resources to enforce them. One of the Councillors made the ludicrous claim that a new pub would reduce antisocial behaviour on Stockwell Ave. That is totally contrary to my experience of Canova Hall. At least the people who used to drink at the Brixton Rd end of Stockwell Ave were polite. The punters at Canova Hall can be pretty terrible - spilling out onto the street from the smoking area, shouting, leering, vomiting, etc. I'm not looking forward to more of that on our street.

Thanks. Glad you posted this as someone who has to live near this.

Yes the dynamics her mean that poster like me who wasn't overjoyed about Squires coming to Brixton was given a hard time.

See even one of the great supporters of the Department Store Mr Retro is now having second thoughts.

To make it clear. My position was that Squires are a business who needs premises. They are entitled to buy a building to turn into office space for their company.

Its all the other bollocks I object to. The presenting his commercial venture as a "selfless contribution" to Brixton is typical of how Squires operate.

I'm assuming the Cllr who said this would reduce anti social behaviour was a Labour Cllr?

 

[Gramsci]

Get the impression from talking to several younger colleagues in the office who have tried eating out there that the management of Canova Hall have given up caring about the food and just looking to push as much booze as possible.

It appears the readers of Tripadvisor agree.
View attachment 163899 View attachment 163898

Somewhat harsh reviews. Squires came to Brixton and regenerated this rundown scruffy Street.

A better review is this Time Out one.

Canova Hall | Bars and pubs in Stockwell, London

You could see a modern-day Jay Gatsby sipping martinis here.

Every time I go past it its busy. Squires are getting the punters in.

So makes business sense to have another outlet around the corner.

 

[cuppa tee]

...a modern day Jay Gatsby

Jay Rayner ?

 

[Gramsci]

Thanks Gramsci and all. I read this board from time to time to keep up with local news, so I'm aware of the dynamics around here and wouldn't expect everyone to agree that this is a problem.

Squire claimed at the PAC meeting that this new proposal is less profitable than the previous one. He focused on the new office space for start-ups, making the case that this was some selfless contribution to Brixton, and that the pub was simply there to underwrite the costs for this office space. Thanks Mr Squire! What a guy.

As Gramsci says, all the conditions in the world will make no difference if there are no resources to enforce them. One of the Councillors made the ludicrous claim that a new pub would reduce antisocial behaviour on Stockwell Ave. That is totally contrary to my experience of Canova Hall. At least the people who used to drink at the Brixton Rd end of Stockwell Ave were polite. The punters at Canova Hall can be pretty terrible - spilling out onto the street from the smoking area, shouting, leering, vomiting, etc. I'm not looking forward to more of that on our street.

I had a look at the officers report.

To my surprise the officers are saying that this development is acceptable as it falls within the Brixton Town Centre. Kind of stretching the definition imo.

The bar is big. Sitting right next to Bellafields road. This isn't going to be some small bar. Acoustic glazing will be used on the outside glass windows. Looks to me like the windows will be floor to ceiling to encourage secured by Design passive surveillance of the street. Recipe for disturbance to local residents imo .

Entrance will be on Stockwell Avenue.With a lobby system to reduce disturbance . These don't work that well if a place is busy. Also lobby system inevitably means queues when busy. So that in itself can be a problem.

The officers have put in "mitigating" measures to hopefully deal with disturbance.

Its imo a large entertainment venue right near to residential housing. An extension of Brixton entertainment zone when Council admits its having resource problems dealing with what is already there. So why are officers allowing this? They could have said keep it to business / office space. With non A3 on ground floor. (Its A3 that brings in money for owner of property. )

Brixton doesn't need any more purpose built bars.

BTW the planning officers limitations on opening hours as part of planning permission may be altered later on. For reasons I don't understand licensing may give longer hours. There isnt joined up thinking in Lambeth. So it's worth keeping eye on this. Signs should be publicly displayed if variations to hours are sought.

 

[BakeRecords]

Thanks. Glad you posted this as someone who has to live near this.

Yes the dynamics her mean that poster like me who wasn't overjoyed about Squires coming to Brixton was given a hard time.

See even one of the great supporters of the Department Store Mr Retro is now having second thoughts.

To make it clear. My position was that Squires are a business who needs premises. They are entitled to buy a building to turn into office space for their company.

Its all the other bollocks I object to. The presenting his commercial venture as a "selfless contribution" to Brixton is typical of how Squires operate.

I'm assuming the Cllr who said this would reduce anti social behaviour was a Labour Cllr?

It was Cllr Ben Kind who came up with that nonsense. He was also particularly effusive about the design of the building and the 'contribution' of Squire and Partners.

As you say Gramsci, the most galling thing about this development is the outrageous and disingenuous #community bullshit. Squire and Partners have shown no regard to their neighbours throughout this process.

 

[BakeRecords]

I had a look at the officers report.

To my surprise the officers are saying that this development is acceptable as it falls within the Brixton Town Centre. Kind of stretching the definition imo.

The bar is big. Sitting right next to Bellafields road. This isn't going to be some small bar. Acoustic glazing will be used on the outside glass windows. Looks to me like the windows will be floor to ceiling to encourage secured by Design passive surveillance of the street. Recipe for disturbance to local residents imo .

Entrance will be on Stockwell Avenue.With a lobby system to reduce disturbance . These don't work that well if a place is busy. Also lobby system inevitably means queues when busy. So that in itself can be a problem.

The officers have put in "mitigating" measures to hopefully deal with disturbance.

Its imo a large entertainment venue right near to residential housing. An extension of Brixton entertainment zone when Council admits its having resource problems dealing with what is already there. So why are officers allowing this? They could have said keep it to business / office space. With non A3 on ground floor. (Its A3 that brings in money for owner of property. )

Brixton doesn't need any more purpose built bars.

BTW the planning officers limitations on opening hours as part of planning permission may be altered later on. For reasons I don't understand licensing may give longer hours. There isnt joined up thinking in Lambeth. So it's worth keeping eye on this. Signs should be publicly displayed if variations to hours are sought.

Exactly! Brixton doesn't need any more bars like this. Certainly not 2 minutes from Brixtons biggest pub, Pop Brixton. The queue/smoking area on Stockwell Ave has the potential to be a major nuisance to residents.

I also have major concerns about vehicular access. Since Canova Hall opened, Ubers/ private hire taxis quite regularly drive all the way up the pedestrianised part of Stockwell Ave to drop people off at Canova Hall, and then have to reverse all the way back up the street back to Bellefields Rd. I'm expecting more of that nonsense, plus all the additional deliveries/rubbish collections and the possibility of Deliveroo drivers. Stockwell Ave is meant to be a cycle route!

Thanks for the heads up on opening hours. I will keep a close eye on this. Squire claimed at the meeting that it would close at 9pm on a Sunday, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they pushed for later openings.

 

[cuppa tee]

Anyone Who believed squire and sons was going to benefit the wider community must have been tripping or just completely deluded.