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SpaceX to launch 60 Satellites in one go

Fortunately they do largely appear to be dimmer now than on initial release (not entirely clear why yet) but they are still going to be annoying in survey telescopes and various other work. The upper shell won't degrade that fast naturally. Hopefully they plan to actively use the Kr ion thrusters on each to nudge them to re-entry as EOL is reached.

BTW latest orbital data suggests the sequence now spans some 110 degrees so clearly they are each gradually climbing to the designed orbit in a phased fashion to achieve the desired spacing.
 
Any more details about the use?
Are there going to be competing networks (once Amazon etc get involved)?
Are there regulating authorities on all this or is it a free for all?
 
Yes to competing networks and yes to regulated - at least at the frequency allocation level - they have to file with the FCC for starters.
 
Yes to competing networks and yes to regulated - at least at the frequency allocation level - they have to file with the FCC for starters.
Thanks
Does the FCC have jurisdiction on other countries (non USA?)... If for example China want their own megaconstelation I presume no one will stop them.
I'm trying to imagine just how crowded the skies might get...
 
Also (potentially) substantial reductions in RTT on eg London-New York, London-Singapore ;)
is that explained and quantified anywhere?

a latency test to my router shows 19ms from a server in London, 174ms from one in Singapore, so there's plenty of scope for improvement.
 
is that explained and quantified anywhere?
Speed of light in a vacuum is faster than light in glass (fibre). For anything NYC-LON or longer, the time cost of going up to space and back down again is less than the time gained by not being slowed down by glass. This video explains how the routing will work (since updated as more details have come out. See more on the same Channel)

 
Optical lasers for direct satellite comunication to reduce round trip time, looks like a very clever solution..

But considering the large number of satellites needed and these will need to be replaced on regular basis, I'm doubtful that this project will make money. Iridium satellite network was ground breaking with the first satellites launched in 1997. But it went bankrupt in 1999, eventually it recovered with the help of contracts from the pentagon

Motorola (MOT), filed for bankruptcy in 1999, after the company had spent $5 billion to build and launch its infrastructure of satellites to provide worldwide wireless phone service. At the time, it was one of the 20 largest bankruptcies in US history. To work properly, the system needed 66 satellites. The creation of this enormous system forced the company to default on $1.5 billion of debt. The service had been such a failure that it only had 10,000 subscribers. This was, in part, due to technical difficulties with Iridium's first handsets. According to a Dartmouth Tuck Business School case study on the history of Iridium in 1998, the company forecast that it would have 500,000 subscribers by the following year. But, the service was expensive for customers, and the cellular phone business had started to take hold as its infrastructure was built out in most of the large developed countries. An Iridium handset cost $3,000 and talk time was as much as $5 a minute. Cellular service was not as broadly available, but it was far less expensive.Technology difficulties also made the service unpopular. Because Iridium's technology depended on line-of-sight between the phone antenna and the orbiting satellite, subscribers were unable to use the phone inside moving cars, inside buildings, and in many urban areas

The 10 Biggest Tech Failures of the Last Decade - TIME
 
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Another nice view from a much darker location in the SW tonight. Really spreading out now (takes some 15 minutes for them all to pass, vaguely in two groupings). Looks like they were all similarly oriented perhaps with the antenna surface momentarily flaring (around mag -2 to -3) as each passed near the zenith (visible through thin cloud).
starlink-190528000853Z.png
Thanks
Does the FCC have jurisdiction on other countries (non USA?)
No. But all countries have to get together every 4 years via the UN ITU to agree spectrum use/allocation.
 
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Initial estimates for high latitude locations (eg UK) suggest 50+, perhaps up to 70 sunlit satellites at a time in May-Aug night skies for the fully populated constellation.
midshell.png innershell.jpg
 
I'm doubtful that this project will make money. Iridium satellite network was ground breaking with the first satellites launched in 1997. But it went bankrupt in 1999
The difference this time is that the market is orders of magnitude larger and the product is orders of magnitude better. Launch costs are also much lower, given that SpaceX owns it's own rockets, which are already the cheapest around, plus they're mostly reusable. It's not a slam dunk, but the odds are much higher than they were for iridium
 
Nice video of the flaring behaviour that was observed during the first few days after deployment.

They seemed to have largely settled down to be binocular only objects (for the time being). NYT piece concerning the potential light pollution worries.
 
I think CB radio types get upset about modern tech messing up the kit. We mostly got over it by ignoring them.
 
But considering the large number of satellites needed and these will need to be replaced on regular basis, I'm doubtful that this project will make money. Iridium satellite network was ground breaking with the first satellites launched in 1997. But it went bankrupt in 1999, eventually it recovered with the help of contracts from the pentagon
Iridium is still going strong, it has been generating enough revenue to replace its entire fleet over the past couple of years. The new fleet includes a receiver to help track civilian aircraft globally. Their new fleet flew on Falcon 9s.
The economics here is two fold, one is the flight hardware and whether they can attract enough customers to break even.
The other is the launch system. In the eyes of many people the "cadence" or how often a rocket flies is a huge part of the economic barriers to space travel.
You have a fixed cost for the development of the rocket. So many million human hours designing the bugger. You have a broadly fixed cost for the manufacture, rents on facilities, human labour hours, machine tools etc.
The variable costs are material to build the rocket, fuel etc.
The more units you fly the more you spread the fixed costs over while the variable costs, material are surprisingly small. The fuel for a big rocket like Flacon 9 is mostly RP1 which is just very refined kerosene. It is surprisingly cheap. So by generating launch manifests you spread you fixed costs over a much larger number of flights thus reduce the costs per flight.
This is where the Starlink comes in. If it can come close to breaking even, then this will mean you have a lot of paid for flights to spread the fixed costs over. This will reduce the costs of all Falcon flights for Space X thus make their other launches cheaper and bring in profit on their £70ish million they charge customers. This is where previous disposable rockets failed in their promise to bring down costs, (Ariane 5 and the EEVL launch vehicles) they never generated the launch cadence originally envisioned to spread fixed costs across. Its ironic that the 90s generation of commercial rockers failed to deliver their promised lowers of space costs due to the innovations in computer technology that reduced the need for new satellites to replace the existing ones. So they never got an anticipated number of flights to spread the costs. The previous effort to reduce costs had been reusable, the shuttle. But there the fixed costs of the refurbishment of the flight vehicle was just huge and brought no savings vs a new built rocket. Also, for the shuttle, the improvement technology meant the economics of building a new satellite vs bringing one back to Earth meant Shuttles cargo bay was an economic dead end. It only brought one satellite back to Earth.
STS-51-A - Wikipedia

A huge cost for Starlink will be the flights and as stated above the more of them there are the less it will cost per flight, so the cheaper the network will be.

The space industry world wide was estimated at about £300 billion year, but of that about £3 billion is the actual launch of the hardware and about half of that is US military and recon. So the biggest block for the industry and much of humanity is the costs of launch but ironically they are such a small part of the industry there is little drive to innovate and bring costs down. Doubly so for the big US aerospace conglomerates as they have the deep deep pockets of Uncle Sam and its fixed cost of military satellites. Thus what little innovation there has been has come from Europe and Ariane and this is why they have dominate the commercial sector, much lower margins (The Russians are just living of USSR investment into space and the Chinese are "leveraging" there low labour costs and very dated tech to get market share ) What SpaceX has done is be able to be innovative enough to gain commercial market share while being American and able to get those very fat government contracts. Which brings us round to where we started, the more Starlink flights, the cheaper it is for SpaceX to launch US government hardware (ISS Dragon resupply and National Reconnaissance Office type flights) so the more profitable those fat fixed price flights are.

If all of that sounds a little too clever for Elon Musk, this is why people in the space industry tend to focus on Gwynn Shotwell instead. She is the COO at SpaceX and the big difference between SpaceX and its very commercially successful operations and the endless array of space launch start ups we have seen over the decades. She is the bridge between "imagineers" and people with spanners.

Sorry for the ramble. :oops:
 
ESA have just had to conduct their first ever collision avoidance manoeuvre in order to reduce the risk of a Starlink satellite hitting the Atmospheric Dynamics Mission Aeolus satellite which is measuring global wind speeds. If such avoidance exercises become more common they will potentially shorten the operational lifespan of some very useful scientific and environmental monitoring satellites.
 
They were avoiding one of the malfunctioning Starlink satellites, that was on its way down to a disposal orbit. So it's not quite the doomsday scenario implied by the headline. Spacex need to deorbit their faulty sats quicker, or this will become more common...
 
Heads up that the next batch of 60 will leap off the pad this coming Monday afternoon (F9/Starlink-1, launch window: 1451-1502 GMT). The initial viewing window (if they head to a similar plane to the last set, which the NOTAM suggests will be the case) is marginal for us so one will have to wait a couple of weeks for the orbits to precess into the pre-dawn skies.
 
so the european space agency has come up with a novel solution - but it may impact the south atlantic industrial zone. simply put, they want to make polymers out of the bones of some of the former people, as gouty middle-aged white men like boris johnson have, it seems, some chemical in their bodies which allows the creation of a specially resilient net which would be perfect for catching many of the small pieces of space debis. these small pieces cause the most concern as they can't readily be detected before what may be a catastrophic collision. the board of the saiz are meeting on friday to discuss the esa's proposal.
 
F9 left the pad on time. Those satellites are now in a good orbit for deployment from the upper stage. That deploy sequence starts shortly before 1600UTC this afternoon. I compute a very marginal pass for the UK (close to the SW horizon) 1648-1656UTC. The UK will miss the optimum passes for viewing this time.

e2a: Deployment sequence has now started. Fourth reflight of the same first stage, first reflight of a fairing.
 
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Observations thus far suggest they are every bit as bright as the first batch (which isn't surprising as SpaceX only plan to introduce mitigations for astronomical observation for future launches).

Seen from Spain a couple of hours ago - a drawn out train of objects:
 
Starlink satellites photobomb a Global Meteor Network survey camera on La Palma which was hunting for a predicted outburst of activity as part of the annual Monocerotid meteor shower (activity peak, arising from Earth grazing a filament of comet dust, was observed). Star trails arc from right to left, short lines are meteors, Starlink satellites trail brightly from the bottom to the top left of this long exposure integrated image:
EKGUDyWXYAAnpTa.jpg


Time lapse video of the same (Starlink satellites start to rock up about 2m12s in):
 
Starlink 3 is due for launch Tuesday on a F9 at 1659UTC. The weather might co-operate over central/southern UK to facilitate views on the ascent and subsequent pass (unfortunately the viewing odds would have been even better if it hadn't been delayed 24 hours) and then in subsequent days (though cloud cover will tend to increase as the week progresses). It looks like the first ascent pass should be high, through the zenith from about 1720-1728UTC.
 
Revised launch date and time issued: 1554UTC on Friday 24 January. The ascent pass won't now be visible from the UK (lost in the glare of the setting Sun) but the second orbit should be visible in a clear sky in the south around 1745UTC:
starlink3-24jan2020.png
This is about half an hour after satellite deployment so they will still be very tightly bunched together. There is then a further, even lower elevation pass on Saturday around 1748UTC, before the viewing window for the UK closes for several days (the passes are 'lost' as they precess into daylight).
 
Unfortunately delayed yet again (looks like weather issues once more). Now appears to be targeting 1449UTC on Mon 27 Jan, which means no viewing for the UK in the days following the launch and satellite deployment (a morning viewing window opens towards the end of the first week of February).
 
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