Sinner Or Winner Man Comes To Brixton

[toggle]

yeah, i've taken enough personal abuse form him over the years that i have no sympathy for him. he fuckign deserves an ASBO, that's what these things should be for, if anything.

plus, as you ahve mentioned he's got a very nasty habit of being extremely abusive to, usually young women who dress or act in a manner that doesn't meet his approval. it's quite irrelevant whether he's a bit different, or even what he is preaching, but for women who live and work in an area, they have a right to walk down the streets without some arsehole following them making personal comments about their appearance and speculating about their sex lives every time they walk to work.

he's not a 'lovable local character' He's a misogynist bully

 

[Skim]

He was a regular at Oxford Circus.He was ASBOd from there and then went to Piccadilly Circus.I dont like him but the only reason he was ASBOd is that Westminister Council is on a "Cleansing drive" against anyone who is a bit different.

Its ironic that at Oxford circus (which is just shops not residential) he was considered a nuisance.I thought the Government brought in ASBOs for neighbours from "Hell" on estates not for general social cleansing.

I think the problem was that people like him dont fit into a "modern retail environment" populated by the likes of Nike.

And I also think the so called charity touts are more of a pain in the neck.

Social cleansing? Modern retail environments? Come on. Maybe people just didn't want to listen to a tedious, sometimes abusive, man with a megaphone spouting his religious beliefs. What about if he's standing outside the old retail environment of Brixton Market? He'll be just as irritating.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

the man's a shit of the highest order. i've seen him reduce young girls to tears hollering through his megaphone in their faces about sex and hell.

I'd like him to have a go at me. I'd give him an entertaining argument about monotheisim, sexuality and how Christians have misread and misinterpreted their own texts imo.

When will Christians realise that street evangelism is possibly one of the worst ways of convincing someone of your cause. Street evangelists piss people off and are in some cases generally offensive and nasty. Its like haveing a fantastic product sold by an unshaven tramp with convictions for fraud.

 

[paulhackett]

I thought he had calmed down when he was reciting lyrics by the Carpenters

Such a feelin's comin' over me
There is wonder in most everything I see
Not a cloud in the sky
Got the sun in my eyes
And I won't be surprised if it's a dream

Everything I want the world to be
Is now coming true especially for me
And the reason is clear
It's because you are here
You're the nearest thing to heaven that I've seen

I'm on the top of the world lookin' down on creation
And the only explanation I can find
Is the love that I've found ever since you've been around
Your love's put me at the top of the world

Something in the wind has learned my name
And it's tellin' me that things are not the same
In the leaves on the trees and the touch of the breeze
There's a pleasin' sense of happiness for me

There is only one wish on my mind
When this day is through I hope that I will find
That tomorrow will be just the same for you and me
All I need will be mine if you are here

I'm on the top of the world lookin' down on creation
And the only explanation I can find
Is the love that I've found ever since you've been around
Your love's put me at the top of the world


Chuck in a couple of Christ's, God's and Jesus's and you get thedrift.

Better than he was on the Central Line one day with his megaphone.

 

[Mr Retro]

he's a fucking berk.

Couldn't agree more.

Lucky we have the multi-nationals to keep him away from us!

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Better than he was on the Central Line one day with his megaphone.

Sounds like a definition of Hell to me. Stuck in a tin box deep underground during a signals failure accompanied by a Christian ranter with a megaphone.

There are not many things that would make me think 'violence? maybe?' than that. At least in the street you are normally able to walk away from the 'sinner or winner' man but trapped underground???

 

[Citizen66]

yeah, i've taken enough personal abuse form him over the years that i have no sympathy for him. he fuckign deserves an ASBO, that's what these things should be for, if anything.

Oh get over yourself. I think the guy's pretty harmless, I've spoken to him a few times and a lot of the things he says are pretty right, even if it's said under the veil of a monotheistic religion.

 

[jæd]

Oh get over yourself. I think the guy's pretty harmless, I've spoken to him a few times and a lot of the things he says are pretty right, even if it's said under the veil of a monotheistic religion.

So which things that he said are "right"...?

 

[Citizen66]

So which things that he said are "right"...?

That being a bad person in life isn't a particularly nice way to be?

Which bit do you disagree with?

Remember... bigotry towards religion is no better than religious bigotry.

 

[gabi]

That being a bad person in life isn't a particularly nice way to be?

Which bit do you disagree with?

Remember... bigotry towards religion is no better than religious bigotry.

you're missing the key difference there. the majority of us aren't armed with a fucking megaphone. nor would we want to be.

 

[gabi]

That being a bad person in life isn't a particularly nice way to be?

and please... give everyone a wee bit of credit.. that never before heard piece of philosophy aint exactly groundbreaking. i dont need it rammed down my throat thanks, enjoy the show tho.

 

[toggle]

That being a bad person in life isn't a particularly nice way to be?

Which bit do you disagree with?

Remember... bigotry towards religion is no better than religious bigotry.

So what part of stomping up and down the street shouting abuse at passing women makes him a good person?

i don't think that his religion should be used as an excuse for his bad behavior.

 

[Citizen66]

So what part of stomping up and down the street shouting abuse at passing women makes him a good person?

Well I only have your word for this don't I? How do I know you're not lying to discredit him (it happens quite a lot that kind of thing)

I certainly don't see him as the hooded claw, haven't seen him giving women aggro and I've been passing him on a daily basis these last couple of months.

http://www.b3ta.com/interview/winnerorsinner/

Carry on with your lame bashing though if you want

 

[Citizen66]

you're missing the key difference there. the majority of us aren't armed with a fucking megaphone. nor would we want to be.

Oh, so the rest of the world has to live by YOUR standards? Give it a rest sweetheart.

 

[gaijingirl]

Actually I'm generally fairly immune to this sort of stuff - but I have found him to be particularly offensive in the past. Living where I do, and with my own upbringing, I'm fairly accustomed to evangelising - but the winner and sinner guy (who I've been experiencing for years) is pretty intimidating sometimes - at least for some of us.

 

[toggle]

yeah, whatever, you keep on showing yourself up defending his right to abuse people.

 

[Citizen66]

yeah, whatever, you keep on showing yourself up defending his right to abuse people.

I pass him DAILY cloth head and I've never seen him abuse anyone. He rambles on into mid air it isn't directed at anyone in particular. However, I find some of the intolerance displayed here far nastier than any of the shite the bible basher comes out with.

And I will defend his right to free speech, yes.

 

[Skim]

How many hours a day do you do this?
Usually at least 12, but I try to get in 14 if I can. In Glastonbury I've gone right through the night and done 48 hours preaching.

I bet you got hassle at Glastonbury?
Yeah, but I love it. I can thrive on it. I have a go at them, then calm them down. You learn how to play people in the end, you learn how to take the sting out of their words. You can turn negative people into positive people.

*sends back ticket*

 

[toggle]

I pass him DAILY cloth head and I've never seen him abuse anyone. He rambles on into mid air it isn't directed at anyone in particular. However, I find some of the intolerance displayed here far nastier than any of the shite the bible basher comes out with.

And I will defend his right to free speech, yes.

of course.


the great god of free speech gives him the right to follow women down the street shouting abuse at them, and making comments about their bodies, their clothes, speculate on their sex lives and generally make them scared to walk on the streets. How nice it must be to live in a world where his right to be a cunt is more important than their right not to be harassed by one.


You've been told by more than one prson in this thread that he behaves in such a manner, i suppose we are all lying....

 

[Citizen66]

You've been told by more than one prson in this thread that he behaves in such a manner, i suppose we are all lying....

Well I've never seen it happen, I'll look out for it.
Perhaps you'd all like to elaborate with personal experiences etc etc

But obviously a bit of Christian bashing is right up your street, am I wrong?

 

[toggle]

I do not see why he should be able to use his religion as an excuse to harass people.

Harassing people by following them about shouting abuse at them should be unacceptable behaviour, whether done in the name of a religion, or for any other reason.

 

[Citizen66]

I do not see why he should be able to use his religion as an excuse to harass people.

Harassing people by following them about shouting abuse at them should be unacceptable behaviour, whether done in the name of a religion, or for any other reason.

Are you going to give me examples of this actually happening to you or are you just throwing about hearsay... I'm sorry Toggle I can't allocate all of my posting time specifically to you.

 

[gaijingirl]

But obviously a bit of Christian bashing is right up your street, am I wrong?

Blimey - calm down - where did you get that from?? I don't think it's the man's faith that anyone has problems with per se - more his method of evangelising!!

I think that most (if not all) people who have commented on this thread would defend the right to free speech. The difference (IME) between this guy and some other evangelists is that many people's experience (not yours apparently) suggest that when you engage him in conversation he quickly becomes abusive.

I've had conversations with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and various people on the streets and by and large they've remained civil - otoh I have seen become abusive quite quickly. I've met other evangelists - mostly missionaries - who have had widely differing opinions to me - but we've still managed to have a civil conversation and even, to an extent, an ongoing social relationship. I've respected them, to an extent, and they've made me think alot about my position.

It's true what you say that most of the time he's spouting this stuff into the air - but I and, it seems, others have witnessed him being quite unpleasant. You, it seems, on the other hand have had a decent conversation with him. Just be aware that others have had quite different experiences.

 

[Citizen66]

suggest that when you engage him in conversation he quickly becomes abusive.

So the stance has now changed from him following girls down the street to the 'suggestion' that him being approached and engaged in conversation makes him abusive.

Have you ever considered how much flak he might actually get in his day to day comings and goings with his personal beliefs and then perhaps consider why that may make him defensive when approached?

 

[gaijingirl]

So the stance has now changed from him following girls down the street to the 'suggestion' that him being approached and engaged in conversation makes him abusive.

Well the former stance you mention is not mine so I can't comment. But I stand by the latter one.

Have you ever considered how much flak he might actually get in his day to day comings and goings with his personal beliefs and then perhaps consider why that may make him defensive when approached?

Yes, of course I've considered that - and witnessed it too - plenty of people telling him to "fuck off" - but to my mind, given the path he's chosen and the place he's chosen to carry it out he ought to be able to deal with it. I guess that's the point I was trying to make in my last post about experience with other evangelists for whom I have greater respect. They have remained civil despite the abuse they have experienced - which, I feel, is their strength (regardless of our differences in beliefs) and the reason why I've felt able to engage in conversation with them. FWIW - (my memory of) biblical accounts of Jesus show that he underwent all kinds of abuse - crucifixion not being the least!! - however, by and large he remained civil.

To be fair - he didn't have to deal with Oxford Circus on a busy Friday afternoon.

 

[William of Walworth]

Citizen, my impression when I've seen him, happens to be similar to yours -- that I've not seen him being abusive nor have I seen him being unpleasant to young girls etc. Just being a mild nusisance who's easy to walk past.

But I see why no reason why I should not believe more than one Urbanite who's saying he has acted like this on occasion. Bluestreak and toggle are both saying it.

Perhaps he varies in his behaviour?

Whatever, you're writing off reactions to him as no more than anti-Christian/anti-religious bigotry. This is bollocks, very few even of the more hardcore atheist of us especially objects to religious people being religious to themselves and with each other and in church and in private.

But when it comes to going round with a megaphone being in yer face with it, some people don't like it. We get it from a large group of ultra evangelicals in the Walworth Road every Saturday, the thrusting leaflets at you and megaphone preaching, it's annoying.

You can put up with it of course and just pass by, but it's still a pain in the arse. It's not us being intolerent, it's our tolerence they're abusing.

 

[toggle]

Are you going to give me examples of this actually happening to you or are you just throwing about hearsay... I'm sorry Toggle I can't allocate all of my posting time specifically to you.

So since you can't attack me for being a christian basher, you're going to claim to be too important to talk to me.

 

[jæd]

That being a bad person in life isn't a particularly nice way to be?

Gosh, I had never thought that...

Which bit do you disagree with?

(1) The intimidation of people going about their business, including sexist and homophobic abuse.
(2) The annoyance factor. You've never had to work opposite him with his constant droning
(3) If you think religions are nice things, then I suggest you take a look at the Middle East. Or listen to the Pope.
(4) Religions: Fairy stories to make people behave nicely and to give people power.

 

[Kanda]

Dodgy scouse accent yelling down a microphone... he can fuck off, it's not about religion, it's about his annoying fucking voice

 

[Citizen66]

You can put up with it of course and just pass by, but it's still a pain in the arse. It's not us being intolerent, it's our tolerence they're abusing.

Well whenever I've seen threads on here bashing Islam the people who immediately leap to the defence start bashing Christianity which is why I know there's a LOT of bigotry around these waters.

(1) The intimidation of people going about their business, including sexist and homophobic abuse.
(2) The annoyance factor. You've never had to work opposite him with his constant droning
(3) If you think religions are nice things, then I suggest you take a look at the Middle East. Or listen to the Pope.
(4) Religions: Fairy stories to make people behave nicely and to give people power.

You don't need to tell me the ins and outs of monotheistic organised religions and yes, they're all about politics. I don't believe in any of it but I still don't see this guy as anything other than an eccentric.