Shane Meadows latest film This Is England

[upsidedownwalrus]

So what's the general buzz been like in the UK about this film? Have the showings been well attended?

 

[Orang Utan]

So what's the general buzz been like in the UK about this film? Have the showings been well attended?

It only came out yesterday!
The reviews I've seen have been very very positive

 

[zenie]

So what's the general buzz been like in the UK about this film? Have the showings been well attended?

I expected last nights screening @ The Ritzy to be full (sell out) but I suppose it was only 6.40, no idea whether the later screening was.

The whitey scene made ma laugh too

I can remember my Mum in the 80's had the same deckchair holiday t-shirt that Shaun's Mum was wearing

It was very indulgent wasn't it?

Some wicked haicuts too!!

 

[Orang Utan]

Shane Meadows is the subject of this Sunday's South Bank Show BTW

 

[Dubversion]

ah, excellent

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

It only came out yesterday!
The reviews I've seen have been very very positive

I mean more - have a lot of people been talking about it who you wouldn't normally expect to talk about this sort of film? Is it a 'breaktrhough' film? Could it be a hit like Trainspotting or Full Monty?

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't think so, though you never know.
All my friends are talking about it but the man on the Clapham omnibus is probably going to go to see Spiderman 3

 

[Dubversion]

it does have something of a head of steam for a UK indie movie - it's discussed a lot that i've heard, though it's hard to know how much of that is a reaction to me ramming it down people's throats since the day I saw it

 

[Orang Utan]

it's discussed a lot that i've heard, though it's hard to know how much of that is a reaction to me ramming it down people's throats since the day I saw it

Heh heh you and me both

 

[gaijingirl]

Just saw it tonight and really enjoyed it - the acting was superb. But there were a couple of things I didn't like about it. The relationship between Smell and Shaun just didn't ring true at all (for me).

Also, I thought it was a bit lazy that everyone who got involved with the NF side of things had some kind of obvious emotional (or mental in the case of Combo) problem. I'm sure plenty of people who do want friends/lose a parent etc get sucked into situations like those particular characters did - but I was kind of disappointed that Combo turned out to basically be mentally deranged - it kind of made his actions seem forgiveable - or understandable at least. Having some characters have empathetic storylines is one thing - but I do think that there are some people who get involved with organisations like the NF simply because they're nasty pieces of work and those kind of people weren't really represented by any of the main characters.

That's a lot of words of criticism though for a film that actually I really enjoyed. The opening scene with all the shots of the 80s actually made me cry (although I am a bit emotional today).

 

[madamv]

Looking forward to catching this this week.

Apparently, it could be getting more attention because most other films out at the moment are crap. Apparently.

 

[marty21]

saw it earlier at the rio, very very good, although felt it dragged slightly in parts

- two key roles the kid and combo - brilliant,

it was a 6.30 showing, 2/3 full maybe...

 

[marty21]

someone told me it was filmed in grimsby - the place looked pretty grim

 

[Dubversion]

someone told me it was filmed in grimsby - the place looked pretty grim

Nah, Nottingham, he went round the locations with Melvyn Bragg on SBS last night

 

[Dubversion]

Also, I thought it was a bit lazy that everyone who got involved with the NF side of things had some kind of obvious emotional (or mental in the case of Combo) problem. I'm sure plenty of people who do want friends/lose a parent etc get sucked into situations like those particular characters did - but I was kind of disappointed that Combo turned out to basically be mentally deranged - it kind of made his actions seem forgiveable - or understandable at least. Having some characters have empathetic storylines is one thing - but I do think that there are some people who get involved with organisations like the NF simply because they're nasty pieces of work and those kind of people weren't really represented by any of the main characters.

I don't know that 'everyone' did, just two - Combo and Sean. If you're making a character-driven piece, you're not going to be able - or willing - to represent every stripe of fascist. And those who arrive at the NF through some fucked up political awakening aren't going to make for a good movie. It's a drama, not a polemic, and i don't think Meadows had a responsibility to cover all the bases politically. Plus, there were others - the biker type, Frank Warren's character - who weren't portrayed as damaged.

The film is heavily based on Meadows' own life (even more than I already thought, judging by last night's South Bank Show) and I think it would have ruined the movie to include a well-balanced fascist leading character simply to tick a box.

 

[Orang Utan]

It was filmed in Nottingham AND Grimsby - there's no beach in Nottingham! It is set in no specific town, just one one the coast in Lincolnshire

 

[Orang Utan]

Oh, and Dub, surely you mean Frank Harper? Frank Warren is a boxing promoter!

 

[dtb]

i must say i was very impressed with this film, i saw the special preview at the NFT last week and stayed for the Q&A session with Meadows after the screening. I also watched the South Bank Show last night, he told some of the same anecdotes about his life as a skinhead as he did at the NFT although some of the small details were slightly different. If these stories were actually true they’re not the type of thing you’d get wrong when re-telling the story.

Also, the way in which he told his tales made me wonder how involved he actually was with the skinhead scene. I'm wondering whether his stories of his youth are much exagerrated, is a he really telling the story from his own perspective or is he just a very good observer of other peoples lives? Is the lead character the kid he wanted to be when he was younger or was that actually what he was like, I guess only his friends and family know for sure.

 

[zenie]

Also when they go hunting (which was so so funny!!) Woody has a better smoking jacket than Yetman

 

[gaijingirl]

I don't know that 'everyone' did, just two - Combo and Sean. If you're making a character-driven piece, you're not going to be able - or willing - to represent every stripe of fascist. And those who arrive at the NF through some fucked up political awakening aren't going to make for a good movie. It's a drama, not a polemic, and i don't think Meadows had a responsibility to cover all the bases politically. Plus, there were others - the biker type, Frank Warren's character - who weren't portrayed as damaged.

The film is heavily based on Meadows' own life (even more than I already thought, judging by last night's South Bank Show) and I think it would have ruined the movie to include a well-balanced fascist leading character simply to tick a box.

I didn't expect him to "tick boxes" - I don't know what boxes they would be exactly anyway. The point I made was that none of the "main" characters were portrayed as "undamaged" - I don't think that Frank Warren/Harper's biker character was a main character - he's not especially developed in any way at all. I can understand why Meadows would choose to make the main characters have some kind of emotional trauma/weakness - as you say it's a drama - but it does seem a bit obvious to me. Just my personal opinion. I would have preferred it to be a little bit more challenging is all. I'm not saying it's not a good film - I just think that have a few more facets to the characters would have made it a better one.

 

[Reno]

Just saw it tonight and really enjoyed it - the acting was superb. But there were a couple of things I didn't like about it. The relationship between Smell and Shaun just didn't ring true at all (for me).

Also, I thought it was a bit lazy that everyone who got involved with the NF side of things had some kind of obvious emotional (or mental in the case of Combo) problem. I'm sure plenty of people who do want friends/lose a parent etc get sucked into situations like those particular characters did - but I was kind of disappointed that Combo turned out to basically be mentally deranged - it kind of made his actions seem forgiveable - or understandable at least. Having some characters have empathetic storylines is one thing - but I do think that there are some people who get involved with organisations like the NF simply because they're nasty pieces of work and those kind of people weren't really represented by any of the main characters.

That's a lot of words of criticism though for a film that actually I really enjoyed. The opening scene with all the shots of the 80s actually made me cry (although I am a bit emotional today).

I agree with a lot of what you are saying and felt that Combo, more than the other more rounded characters, was primarely there to move the plot along and to provide a dramatic conclusion to the film. There wasn't that much to him and Meadows falls back on the same plot structure in his films where a psychotic character explodes to bring the film to an explosive conclusion. Otherwise I think his films are great, but he'll have to move on in terms of structure and story.

 

[Dr. Furface]

Good film, saw it last night. Can't fault the acting, some great performances and scenes, both funny and horrible. But there were some things in it that didn't ring true for me, at least not for the time that film was supposed to be set in. The clothes and haircuts were spot on, but for me it was like seeing my own teenage years in the early/mid 70's – I know skins is a fashion which has endured, but the film gave the impression that it was THE youth fashion in 1982, which isn't what I remember. And the emphasis on the St George cross flag was a glaring anachronism – in those days, you never saw one, it was all Union flags, and it was that which the National Front became associated with. And the variety of the characters' accents annoyed me too – it was clearly supposed to be set in a northern or midlands town, but Combo had a scouse accent and the older man (who seemed completely superfluous to the story throughout) was a Londoner. Or did I miss something?

 

[Dubversion]

but for me it was like seeing my own teenage years in the early/mid 70's – I know skins is a fashion which has endured, but the film gave the impression that it was THE youth fashion in 1982,

but the film isn't about all the kids in britain in 1983, it's about ONE GROUP of kids in 1983. I don't think the film gives a false impression at all - you see other kids - non-skin kids - in the school playground and then you mostly just see Woody's mates and Combo's gang. That's it.

And the variety of the characters' accents annoyed me too – it was clearly supposed to be set in a northern or midlands town, but Combo had a scouse accent and the older man (who seemed completely superfluous to the story throughout) was a Londoner. Or did I miss something?

You missed the way people move around the country sometimes.

 

[STFC]

So far, mediocre reviews in independent, telegraph and guardian, good review in the ES and Channel 4.

Channel 4 also have this to say:

As Meadows has revealed, in the film's backstory Combo (like Stephen Graham, the actor who plays him) is mixed-race.

Interesting that, because I thought it might be the case. It was as if he and Milky were pretty much the same, they had lots in common but whereas Milky identified more with the black/Jamaican side of his family, Combo went totally the other way. It's a shame that wasn't explored further. Combo seemed a bit too one dimensional, you were just waiting for him to explode, you knew it was coming, and it quickly became obvious when it was going to happen.

 

[Dr. Furface]

You missed the way people move around the country sometimes.

Yes, I guess maybe the cockney fella took Tebbit's advice and got on his bike to look for work - he was certainly stupid enough to try finding some in one of the country's worst unemployment areas.

 

[Dubversion]

Yes, I guess maybe the cockney fella took Tebbit's advice and got on his bike to look for work - he was certainly stupid enough to try finding some in one of the country's worst unemployment areas.

don't you think you're being a bit obtuse. I don't know why there was a guy with a London accent involved, any more than I know why my neighbour when i was a kid was a geordie.

 

[Reno]

But there were some things in it that didn't ring true for me, at least not for the time that film was supposed to be set in. The clothes and haircuts were spot on, but for me it was like seeing my own teenage years in the early/mid 70's – I know skins is a fashion which has endured, but the film gave the impression that it was THE youth fashion in 1982, which isn't what I remember.

As it dealt with skinheads, inevitably a lot of the lead characters dressed in a skin/mod way, but Smell for instance had an early Madonna/Boy George thing going on and the kids at the school weren't skin heads either.

 

[gaijingirl]

The guy with the London accent - I read that as being that he too was somehow "under the power" of Combo - we are first introduced to him as he carries out a practical "joke" under Combo's bidding and the last we see of him is his being bottled by Combo. They had been in prison together - and presumably released together. Already marginalised by his criminal past and quite possibly with nowhere else to go (same themes of marginalisation evident in the fat kid/Shaun etc) he sticks with Combo - who provides an attractive alternative.

 

[Dr. Furface]

don't you think you're being a bit obtuse. I don't know why there was a guy with a London accent involved, .

Yeah, probably. I'm still trying to figure out what the point of him was in the film at all!

 

[Dr. Furface]

The guy with the London accent - I read that as being that he too was somehow "under the power" of Combo - we are first introduced to him as he carries out a practical "joke" under Combo's bidding and the last we see of him is his being bottled by Combo. They had been in prison together - and presumably released together. Already marginalised by his criminal past and quite possibly with nowhere else to go (same themes of marginalisation evident in the fat kid/Shaun etc) he sticks with Combo - who provides an attractive alternative.

Thank you.