Severance - TV series

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

How would removing 8 hours a day of boring work from your memory help with the grieving process? My experiences and observations indicate that the opposite is true and that that grief would instead fester and multiply.

He is/was an emotional mess, he could not function at his job. He was given tge option of just getting on with his day to day grieving while his innie got on with the business of earning money.

I think it would also appeal to people who don't want to work but would like to earn money. They also lay out all these reasons in the show. I'm pretty sure that big showcase in the last two Eps explains why the company wants to do it (or at least their cover story) and why employees would go for the deal.

Another question: how are the innies ‘born’? Do they just wink into existence with no memories of their lives outside? How do they account for cultural memory and language?

It litteraly shows you in Ep1.
Memory for language and other long term bits and bobs are not stored in the same way/place.
There are lots of instances of people losing their memory but still being able to speak.

 

[Orang Utan]

That all raises so many other questions though!
It’s such a thought provoking show

 

[tommers]

There is one massive issue with the central premise of Severance, mind. Perhaps they’ll go into it in S2, but so far they’ve not made it clear why people choose to go through the severance procedure. We’re told Mark goes through it as a way of dealing with his grief, but how does that work? How would removing 8 hours a day of boring work from your memory help with the grieving process? My experiences and observations indicate that the opposite is true and that that grief would instead fester and multiply.


Another question: how are the innies ‘born’? Do they just wink into existence with no memories of their lives outside? How do they account for cultural memory and language?

It's 8 hours a day that you aren't grieving.

 

[Orang Utan]

It litteraly shows you in Ep1.
Memory for language and other long term bits and bobs are not stored in the same way/place.
There are lots of instances of people losing their memory but still being able to speak.

I think it’s oversimplified - how can you fully converse in a language if you have no cultural reference points?

 

[danny la rouge]

I really tried, I watched the first four episodes then stopped out of boredom. Really don't get why it's so highly rated...

Yeah, I couldn’t finish episode one. I wanted to like it but was just bored and irritated.

 

[Orang Utan]

It's 8 hours a day that you aren't grieving.

Quite. Grieving is a necessary process.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

That all raises so many other questions though!

Like what?
I mean, there is obviously a mystery. Why are they really doing it? Why did he think his wife was dead? Why is she alive? What is their job?

 

[tommers]

I was in the corporate depths when I watched it and having to choose random numbers from a grid but not really knowing why appealed to a certain sense of hollow amusement.

And the team building parties are excellent. "shall we get pizza everyone?"

 

[Orang Utan]

Like what?
I mean, there is obviously a mystery. Why are they really doing it? Why did he think his wife was dead? Why is she alive? What is their job?

More philosophical/psychological ones than practial ones like that.
All the above stuff is just plot stuff

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Quite. Grieving is a necessary process.

He is still grieving. A lot. He is having trouble functioning because of it, but he is also working and making money. It also works like a bit of a mind cleanse, like sleeping. He was having difficulty sleeping which was making him more of a mess.

 

[belboid]

I think it’s oversimplified

Of course it is!

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

More philosophical/psychological ones than practial ones like that.
All the above stuff is just plot stuff

I like the idea that it seems like a great idea on paper, but the innie is basically trapped by the outie. Trapped to be enslaved at work forever without any respite. . . Apart from the odd pizza party.

 

[Orang Utan]

So many questions about work/identity etc.

If you don’t know what you do all day, how does that affect you psychologically?

Who are you, if the third of your life that earns you money is completely closed off to you?

 

[Orang Utan]

Of course it is!

I know, which is why it has raised all these delightful questions to ponder

 

[tommers]

I like the idea that it seems like a great idea on paper, but the innie is basically trapped by the outie. Trapped to be enslaved at work forever without any respite. . . Apart from the odd pizza party.

That's what's good about it. They're so ridiculously excited about a pineapple disco party or whatever because they have nothing else. Like ultimate Stockholm syndrome. And that's kind of true at work as well, oooh were going for lunch! What a treat! I've worked places where we went to the pub on a Friday - highlight of the week. That's why we identify with them so much and want them to be happy and work out what's going on. Or at least why I do.

 

[belboid]

I know, which is why it has raised all these delightful questions to ponder

Well, the separation process clearly doesn't work entirely, as we have seen through Petey and through some of the later episodes (which I haven't rewatched yet, so can't remember in detail). If it did, they couldn't have any personality. But they are all clearly individual, so..... Maybe some kind of hypnosis would work to demarcate the two. Although, that kind of hypnosis doesn't really work, either.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Another question: how are the innies ‘born’? Do they just wink into existence with no memories of their lives outside? How do they account for cultural memory and language?

It’s the difference between episodic and procedural memory, ie the difference between remembering life time events and experiences, and remembering skills. The latter is more likely to be automatic, ie you don’t have to consciously recall how to ride a bike, touch type or speak a language you’re fluent in, which makes it a type of implicit memory. Episodic memory, which you usually have to consciously recall, is a type of explicit memory. Language/culture/general knowledge is semantic memory, which is also a type of explicit memory yet is often retained in people who lose episodic memory.

What is really interesting is that when some people who can’t lay down new episodic memories are exposed to a new stimulus or repeat a new task over and over, it can enter implicit memory to some extent. This is shown when those people get better at the task or showing priming effects when it’s repeated, even if they can’t recall it.

 

[T & P]

There is one massive issue with the central premise of Severance, mind. Perhaps they’ll go into it in S2, but so far they’ve not made it clear why people choose to go through the severance procedure. We’re told Mark goes through it as a way of dealing with his grief, but how does that work? How would removing 8 hours a day of boring work from your memory help with the grieving process? My experiences and observations indicate that the opposite is true and that that grief would instead fester and multiply.

That is not much of a leap or plot problem for me for such a series. Once you’re prepared to accept the basic premise, I think the concept of employees being tempted to accept an offer of substantial career progress (and presumably salary increases) for simply forgetting what happened during their work hours was is perfectly believable.

Hell, a great many people across the world dislike if not plain loath their job and only do it because one has to eat. I reckon if that technology actually became a reality and employees were offered the chance to make their work life ‘disappear’ from their consciousness, every other fucker outside executive positions would sign up without hesitation .

 

[T & P]

So many questions about work/identity etc.

If you don’t know what you do all day, how does that affect you psychologically?

Who are you, if the third of your life that earns you money is completely closed off to you?

For me the most captivating aspect is the concept of creating split sentient entities. The pre-existing consciousness of the employees who agreed to the procedure might have agreed to their memories being split and isolated from each other defined by work time and off work time simply as a career-furthering move, but in effect they created an offspring of sorts of themselves, who in term clearly manifested itself as a separate consciousness and often at odds with its ‘progenitor’.

Never mind the supposed prevalence and power of the progenitor consciousness over the work one, which in effect has become a slave striving for freedom.

It’s a properly fucking brilliant mindfuck of a premise, and I love it. I guess you could say Total Recall touched on the concept, but this takes it to the next level.

 

[Orang Utan]

one thing that really got to me was thinking about the pregnant innie that Mark’s sister encountered. Watching that scene again made me realise that she’s mostly only in existence to give birth*. She has named her baby with a different name than her outie has. She is pregnant and full of hormones in force to emotionally bond her to her baby. Presumably she will give birth as an innie and then blink out of existence until her next pregnancy. So her entire existence is turmoil, pain and trauma and she never gets to meet and raise her children. Horrifying



*perhaps not, as a newspaper article is shown briefly that interviews her outie and she mentions how much house renovations are a drag, so perhaps she uses her innie for that too - though that raises further questions - could an innie and outie diverge on matters of taste? IE could an outie trust an innie to oversee a house renovation? Does overseeing a house renovation even count as work in the context of the show?

 

[Orang Utan]

Just got to this episode:

Do the innies know music? Does this list concede that they recognise music genres or is just an evocative if unfamiliar list designed to excite?
How do they, especially Milchick (he has some sweet moves) know how to dance like that?

 

[belboid]

Just got to this episode:
View attachment 458506
Do the innies know music? Does this list concede that they recognise music genres or is just an evocative if unfamiliar list designed to excite?
How do they, especially Milchick (he has some sweet moves) know how to dance like that?

Is Milichik severed? Either way, Irving was told how his outie loved music and owned many records. Dylan said something as well, can’t remember what now though.

It just goes back to the previous comments re the memory of self and the memory of comprehending the world. In the limited knowledge we have of such a separation in real life, the distinction gets very blurred, but it’s not at all unrealistic for one to retain a knowledge of ‘music’ generally.

Your Brain On Music is very good on why once we like a certain style/song/whatever will resonate physically, even if unconsciously, years later. And Frigyes Karinthy is worth a read, his A Journey Round My Skull is an astounding account of his own brain tumour and how it effected how he, literally saw, heard and smelled the world around him. It was a significant inspiration for A Matter of Life and Death.

 

[Orang Utan]

Is Milichik severed?

D'oh - no he isn't

 

[Orang Utan]

Is Milichik severed? Either way, Irving was told how his outie loved music and owned many records. Dylan said something as well, can’t remember what now though.

It just goes back to the previous comments re the memory of self and the memory of comprehending the world. In the limited knowledge we have of such a separation in real life, the distinction gets very blurred

I was reading recently about experiments done on patients with split brains (when the connection between left and right hemispheres of the brain are severed) - one hemisphere of the brain can be made to be in conflict with the other - that blew my mind - that we have two separate selves inside, even if they are exactly the same as each other.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Couldn't find a thread on this series about office workers who live lives 'severed' from their outer world selves. Probably because it was on Apple tv and no-one has seen it. But I'm on episode 4 and it is thoroughly excellent so far. Amazing visual style using modernist and office architecture, interesting ambiguous characters, quite funny in parts with a dark sense of humour, and with an anti-corporate drudgery vibe running through it. Usually with series this slow I am not gripped, but this moves fairly slowly but is well enough written that I am very much draw in. Directed by Ben Stiller, who it seems we should all be hailing as a directing genius - one of the better unexpected turns of 2022.

Ah. I might give that a watch, sounds intriguing. For some reason, I thought Severance was a Western and that's not a genre I'm really into.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Yeah, I couldn’t finish episode one. I wanted to like it but was just bored and irritated.

Yep

 

[furluxor]

Yep

I finished it and can confirm that those feelings don't go away.

 

[Orang Utan]

It’s the best show on telly, you nutters.
And certainly the most thought-provoking

 

[belboid]

well, on AppleTV maybe

 

[Orang Utan]

well, on AppleTV maybe

no, I meant all the channels.
Leagues ahead of any of those domestic dramas or police thrillers that the Beeb churn out.