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Say hello to Barratt Homes' 'Brixton Square' on Coldharbour Lane (old Cooltan site)

TruXta said:
Back then it was poor black people coming in to a mainly middle-class white area, not it's white upper/middle-class people bumping out working class/lower middle class people.
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I thought- tho I may be wrong- that the West Indians wave of immigrants brought some money with them and often set up very successful business so started buying up housing here- Gramsci I have a vague memory of discussing it with you?
 
T
Manter said:
^this, completely.

If you build a cube with one entrance, and put a gate on it, people will wonder what is behind that gate (perhaps especially if you say repeatedly that it's nothing exciting but no, they can't look), if you leave the gate off people may look, decide its dull and never go back again, but in both instances you have a cube plonked as if from outer space in the middle of an area. As you say, on the continent they are much more likely to build a 'u' shape with bars and cafés at the bottom: or have a pathway through so the new housing becomes part of the existing ebb and flow of normal pedestrian traffic and is physically part of the area. I'd have thought that was safer too, as people will see what is going in, whereas once you get past the gate of somewhere like BS you 'belong' so are unlikely to be challenged.
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That's a fair point, but you also must appreciate that the vast majority of people who have bought in BS WANT a gated development mostly for security reasons, Windrush Square now has a large homeless community and an alcoholism meeting venue
tommers said:
I certainly agree with the 2nd part, but are you sure about the first? I don't know the history of Brixton but I'm not sure how they would have afforded to live in a posh area.

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/history.html
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No blacks no dogs no Irish, I don't think they were living in the posh bit do you ?
 
Manter said:
I thought- tho I may be wrong- that the West Indians wave of immigrants brought some money with them and often set up very successful business so started buying up housing here- Gramsci I have a vague memory of discussing it with you?
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There you go, you (I) live and learn. :)
 
Mr Bim of Bar said:
T

That's a fair point, but you also must appreciate that the vast majority of people who have bought in BS WANT a gated development mostly for security reasons, Windrush Square now has a large homeless community and an alcoholism meeting venue

No blacks no dogs no Irish, I don't think they were living in the posh bit do you ?
Click to expand...


So fucking what? So what if homeless people and alcoholics live nearby you. What's it to you? They're not going to come zombie-like to your doors and windows.

Oooh, some poor people live nearby, I'd better raise the drawbridge!!!

Listen to yourself! You won't say cunt, you're scared your girlfriend might find out you fancy other women, you think white men with dreads are hippies, you're fearful of people who are homeless in case they.... in case they WHAT for fucksake??..... You are clearly not from round these parts, mate.

It's a kind of arrogance, you know, to believe that poor people and drunk people are in any way interested in targeting you, picking you out for your nice things and marauding through your front room. They have far more pressing things to worry about, like where to take a shit, or how to put shoes on their kids feet..

If it bothers you at all that people live on the streets and struggle with addictions. maybe go out there and meet some of them, learn their names, man the soup kitchen, petition your local MP for an INCREASE in local social housing.

Jeez. You've just undone a whole lot of good work done on this thread by Strangerdanger.
 
Mr Bim of Bar said:
T

That's a fair point, but you also must appreciate that the vast majority of people who have bought in BS WANT a gated development mostly for security reasons, Windrush Square now has a large homeless community and an alcoholism meeting venue

No blacks no dogs no Irish, I don't think they were living in the posh bit do you ?
Click to expand...
Windrush square doesn't have a homeless community, or large numbers of alcoholics. You're really not helping people warm to you with statements like that.

Windrush Square has people who don't look like you- that doesn't make them a security risk! Even if one or two start drinking early in the day, the same could be said for the people drinking at lunchtime in the village- they aren't harming you, they are no danger to you, and if you don't work in public health they are none of your concern. As someone said earlier, I can't see any reason for gates unless you are scared if the people round you, in which case you are confirming everyone's concerns about a cut off, ignorant, isolationist 'community' who have no intention of engaging with the community they have parachuted into.
 
story said:
I made the same point myself, in post 1721.
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A few new-builds aside, is the demographic really changing? I have not seen much evidence of yuppiefication in this street. And the census, although two years out of date, doesn't provide much either.

A lot of 'yuppies' are seen, but do they live here?

And which social housing is being lost, 'squats' aside?
 
leanderman said:
A few new-builds aside, is the demographic really changing? I have not seen much evidence of yuppiefication in this street. And the census, although two years out of date, doesn't provide much either.

A lot of 'yuppies' are seen, but do they live here?

And which social housing is being lost, 'squats' aside?
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I think there is lots of evidence- the government data collection is, as ever, massively out of date, especially in an area changing so fast.
-The prices are definitely going up
- Owner occupiers are a changing demographic- My West Indian neighbour has just moved out, (he's renting his house not selling at the moment), the majority of the houses we looked at last year were being sold by West Indian families and we viewed at the same time as a lot of other white, middle class, professional couples
- there are two blocks of expensive luxury flats built where single family homes were within 1 min walk of me- and I'm out of the centre
- in the four or five streets in a square I live in, there have been 7 loft conversions in the last 6 months.
I know that's anecdote not evidence, but even I (as a first wave gentrifier so part of the problem I guess) am staggered by how fast the area is changing- not just by people popping out of the tube and going straight to the Village
 
story said:
It's a kind of arrogance, you know, to believe that poor people and drunk people are in any way interested in targeting you, picking you out for your nice things and marauding through your front room. They have far more pressing things to worry about, like where to take a shit, or how to put shoes on their kids feet.. Strangerdanger.
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The "where to take a shit" dilemma is one of the main reasons quite a few people I know put locked front gates on - private and social housing.
 
story said:
So fucking what? So what if homeless people and alcoholics live nearby you. What's it to you? They're not going to come zombie-like to your doors and windows.

Oooh, some poor people live nearby, I'd better raise the drawbridge!!!

Listen to yourself! You won't say cunt, you're scared your girlfriend might find out you fancy other women, you think white men with dreads are hippies, you're fearful of people who are homeless in case they.... in case they WHAT for fucksake??..... You are clearly not from round these parts, mate.

It's a kind of arrogance, you know, to believe that poor people and drunk people are in any way interested in targeting you, picking you out for your nice things and marauding through your front room. They have far more pressing things to worry about, like where to take a shit, or how to put shoes on their kids feet..

If it bothers you at all that people live on the streets and struggle with addictions. maybe go out there and meet some of them, learn their names, man the soup kitchen, petition your local MP for an INCREASE in local social housing.

Jeez. You've just undone a whole lot of good work done on this thread by Strangerdanger.
Click to expand...
 
tommers said:
I certainly agree with the 2nd part, but are you sure about the first? I don't know the history of Brixton but I'm not sure how they would have afforded to live in a posh area.
Click to expand...
Greedy landlords seized the opportunity to rent out knackered properties at extortionate rates to the first wave of immigrants. With no need to invest, properties fell into more disrepair. By the late 60s, landlords had cottoned on to the fact that there was a massive regeneration scheme in the wind, so they hung on to the properties looking to scoop up a fat wedge of compensation.
 
leanderman said:
A few new-builds aside, is the demographic really changing?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is. It may not seem apparent in some parts of Brixton at certain times, but there's no question that a substantial demographic shift is underway, and in my case best illustrated by the growing wealth chasm along Coldharbour Lane.
 
Manter said:
I think there is lots of evidence- the government data collection is, as ever, massively out of date, especially in an area changing so fast.
-The prices are definitely going up
- Owner occupiers are a changing demographic- My West Indian neighbour has just moved out, (he's renting his house not selling at the moment), the majority of the houses we looked at last year were being sold by West Indian families and we viewed at the same time as a lot of other white, middle class, professional couples
- there are two blocks of expensive luxury flats built where single family homes were within 1 min walk of me- and I'm out of the centre
- in the four or five streets in a square I live in, there have been 7 loft conversions in the last 6 months.
I know that's anecdote not evidence, but even I (as a first wave gentrifier so part of the problem I guess) am staggered by how fast the area is changing- not just by people popping out of the tube and going straight to the Village
Click to expand...

Prices are soaring everywhere.

Loft conversions are nothing new.

But I get your general argument.

There is a lid on this though in that, generally, social housing cannot be bought and sold.

Which, for example, helps secure 60 per cent of Coldharbour ward for social homes.

And around a third of the homes in this street, which L&Q owns and does not allow right-to-buy on.
 
story said:
So fucking what? So what if homeless people and alcoholics live nearby you. What's it to you? They're not going to come zombie-like to your doors and windows.

Oooh, some poor people live nearby, I'd better raise the drawbridge!!!

Listen to yourself! You won't say cunt, you're scared your girlfriend might find out you fancy other women, you think white men with dreads are hippies, you're fearful of people who are homeless in case they.... in case they WHAT for fucksake??..... You are clearly not from round these parts, mate.

It's a kind of arrogance, you know, to believe that poor people and drunk people are in any way interested in targeting you, picking you out for your nice things and marauding through your front room. They have far more pressing things to worry about, like where to take a shit, or how to put shoes on their kids feet..

If it bothers you at all that people live on the streets and struggle with addictions. maybe go out there and meet some of them, learn their names, man the soup kitchen, petition your local MP for an INCREASE in local social housing.

Jeez. You've just undone a whole lot of good work done on this thread by Strangerdanger.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I don't want drunks and druggies hanging out in my garden and I'm not apologising, I'm glad there are gates their to keep them out. You are entitled to your opinion and so am I , and don't try and intimidate me.
 
editor said:
Yes, it is. It may not seem apparent in some parts of Brixton at certain times, but there's no question that a substantial demographic shift is underway, and in my case best illustrated by the growing wealth chasm along Coldharbour Lane.
Click to expand...

Certainly see more poverty.
 
Mr Bim of Bar said:
T

That's a fair point, but you also must appreciate that the vast majority of people who have bought in BS WANT a gated development mostly for security reasons, Windrush Square now has a large homeless community and an alcoholism meeting venue

No blacks no dogs no Irish, I don't think they were living in the posh bit do you ?
Click to expand...
Oh I have to disagree with you there. I can only speak for myself but we bought BS because it offered new buy, was in zone 2 and had flats for less than 350k which was the starting price of a studio where we were before. I didn't even notice there was a gate on it at first, but I did like the idea of a courtyard with trees. All I knew was that we only needed 5% to get on the ladder in zone 2 in a, forgive me, vibrant area and the idea of owning had began to feel further and further away from our grasp. Then looking at the rendering and going to see the place, obviously we knew but it was never a part of our decision making.
 
Mr Bim of Bar said:
Sorry but I don't want drunks and druggies hanging out in my garden and I'm not apologising, I'm glad there are gates their to keep them out. You are entitled to your opinion and so am I , and don't try and intimidate me.
Click to expand...
Does it occur to you that those, "drunks and druggies" are part of the community that you've just moved into, and some of those "drunks and druggies" may well be residents of your very own block? Or are certain sorts of drunks fine with you - like the ones you'll see on Coldharbour Lane at 4 in the morning - so long as they're part of a demographic you like?
 
editor said:
Does it occur to you that those, "drunks and druggies" are part of the community that you've just moved into, and some of those "drunks and druggies" may well be residents of your very own block? Or are certain sorts of drunks fine with you - like the ones you'll see on Coldharbour Lane at 4 in the morning - so long as they're part of a demographic you like?
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I have not just moved here, I been on brixton hill for years
 
editor said:
Does it occur to you that those, "drunks and druggies" are part of the community that you've just moved into, and some of those "drunks and druggies" may well be residents of your very own block? Or are certain sorts of drunks fine with you - like the ones you'll see on Coldharbour Lane at 4 in the morning - so long as they're part of a demographic you like?
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But point taken
 
Badgers said:
Did you drink and do drugs on 'da hill'?
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Never even had a joint in my life, I like a rum and coke, sometimes too many, sorry but I just object to people leaving their empty cans scattered across the square. A drunk at 4 am on COLDHARBOUR lane going home is fine, I've got double glazing
 
Strangerdanger said:
Oh I have to disagree with you there. I can only speak for myself but we bought BS because it offered new buy, was in zone 2 and had flats for less than 350k which was the starting price of a studio where we were before. I didn't even notice there was a gate on it at first, but I did like the idea of a courtyard with trees. All I knew was that we only needed 5% to get on the ladder in zone 2 in a, forgive me, vibrant area and the idea of owning had began to feel further and further away from our grasp. Then looking at the rendering and going to see the place, obviously we knew but it was never a part of our decision making.
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That's cool, I didn't actually buy their because it's gated, but I still like the idea of the gates
 
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