RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

[existentialist]

It is an overwhelming amount of stupidity, but institutions can sometimes be more stupid than the individuals in them, and that's saying something with the police. I don't see what they would get out of this that they would have aimed for, though open to suggestions.

On what happens next, Dick's career being sunk would be great but I don't think it would create much change in the police. Is anyone putting forward a list of demands to reduce police violence against women?

On the protest side, it would be good if it stopped the Tories curtailing the right to protest even further, but given the lack of effective opposition in parliament atm I don't know if that's realistic.

Ultimately, all that curtailing protest will achieve is to ensure that when the lid does pop off, it will be sudden and inescapable. Yesterday they lorded it over a few thousand peacefully protesting women. They won't have it quite so easy when the crowd is ten times bigger, and ten times angrier.

 

[bimble]

It is an overwhelming amount of stupidity, but institutions can sometimes be more stupid than the individuals in them, and that's saying something with the police. I don't see what they would get out of this that they would have aimed for, though open to suggestions.

Not that, not suggesting a cunning evil plan. I was thinking more about the men who did this, not the order but the relish with which it was carried out.

 

[Gromit]

The Met's line that they 'had to intervene for reasons of covid safety' puts them in a very difficult position when they now have to police protests against their ridiculous and ill-thought actions last night. In the face of huge and quite unprecedented condemnation of last night's actions at a vigil, how are they going to justify deescalating such tactics at an actual protest?

Not that I’m by any way a fan or apologist for the filth but... They were in a no win scenario. If they’d not enforced the laws against mass gathering this time they’d be criticised for enforcing future gatherings by extinction rebellion and BLM and for their past policing of such.

 

[killer b]

They were is a no win scenario. If they’d not enforced the laws against mass gathering this time they’d be criticised for enforcing future gatherings by extinction rebellion and BLM and for their past policing of such.

I think you'd have found overwhelming support in the country for letting a vigil go ahead last night tbh. It wasn't a no win scenario, they literally chose the very worst one.

 

[existentialist]

Not that I’m by any way a fan or apologist for the filth but... They were in a no win scenario. If they’d not enforced the laws against mass gathering this time they’d be criticised for enforcing future gatherings by extinction rebellion and BLM and for their past policing of such.

Perhaps if they stopped looking at every situation in terms of "winning", they might not put their clod hopping feet in it quite so often.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

When you wield power over others the preservation of that power becomes your primary function. It's not necessarily any more complicated than that. Your actions may backfire on you, or not, but you need to tell people firmly who is in charge. (It's also much easier to demonstrate that power over a few hundred peaceful women than it is over a few thousand drunken Rangers supporters).

 

[danny la rouge]

Not that I’m by any way a fan or apologist for the filth but... They were in a no win scenario. If they’d not enforced the laws against mass gathering this time they’d be criticised for enforcing future gatherings by extinction rebellion and BLM and for their past policing of such.

Mate, the vigil didn’t turn violent, the cops did. No win my arse. They could have cooperated with the original organisers. Instead they chose to kettle women, trample flowers and kneel on backs. Covid had nothing to do with it. Closing ranks did.

 

[Poot]

Not that, not suggesting a cunning evil plan. I was thinking more about the men who did this, not the order but the relish with which it was carried out.

Yeah. I don't want to use the word 'glee' when describing the way that some of the police in the videos appeared to get stuck in but, fuck it, yeah I think that's the word.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Not that I’m by any way a fan or apologist for the filth but... They were in a no win scenario.

Utter tosh. All they had to do was let it go ahead and then weather any criticism with 'in the public interest' type statements whilst centering Sarah Everend and women's grief.

They chose the cause of action that suited them, as they often do and it involved more violence against women.

 

[kenny g]

I reckon 4 officers could have worked with that crowd to enhance social distancing if that had been the objective.

 

[Mumbles274]

I reckon 4 officers could have worked with that crowd to enhance social distancing if that had been the objective.

4 female officers

 

[Plumdaff]

The organisers went to court to try to force the Met to cooperate. Having refused, the police waited until nightfall when many had already left to steam in and assault people. Disgusting, cowardly, and very deliberate.

 

[existentialist]

4 female officers

Well, that would have been the thoughtful and sensitive approach to take...

Have the words "thoughtful and sensitive" EVER been used in connection with the Metropolitan Police?

 

[Winot]

OH said there were police officers going round the crowd from about 6.30pm with an obvious script along the lines of “you shouldn’t be here because Covid; go home or £200 fine” etc. Very confrontational.

An alternative script was available (e.g. “we are trying to balance your right to protest with the public health concerns; would you mind moving on once you’ve paid your respects”). The Met chose not to police it in this way.

 

[Gramsci]

As I said last night the person who is ultimately responsible for this violence against women by the Met is Cressida Dick. That is what she gets paid for. The buck stops at the top. That is how the system is supposed to work That's what I thought management get paid such a lot for. Its why people like her have powerful positions with a lot of status and pay. Unlike the rest of us.


Cressida Dick OBE is a fully paid up member of the establishment. Fastracked for promotion due to her background.

A long career in the police. Including other mess ups.

I agree with Lambeth LDs in calling for her resignation. I hope local Labour party say the same.

Asking for her to go is the very least that could be done.

As has been pointed out by local MP talks with local police to hold vigil were over ruled from above.

 

[The39thStep]

Not that I’m by any way a fan or apologist for the filth but... They were in a no win scenario. If they’d not enforced the laws against mass gathering this time they’d be criticised for enforcing future gatherings by extinction rebellion and BLM and for their past policing of such.

I’m not a great believer in the there is no alternative position . If this scenario was to be re- run in a training exercise I very much doubt if many would advocate the position the Met did. Whilst the Mayor in his position of PCC isn’t involved in operational issues I’m amazed quite frankly that his advisers didn’t flag up the obvious social media traffic that indicated that the vigil would be well attended which would have led to at least a conversation with Dicks as how policing would be handled .

 

[kenny g]

Thin edge of the wedge arguments aren't applicable at the best of times and definitely not where a proportionate response is required to keep the public safe. The police failed in their duty to keep the peace.

 

[Nanker Phelge]

The indie live streams were certainly getting more footage of police activity last night than all the MSM feeds who seemed to be enclosed and static on a quieter side of the band stand.

On the noisy side, it was interesting to hear the differences between the chants women were starting and the ones men were starting.

I think I made the right choice not to go there as a man on my own.

 

[Ms Ordinary]

OH said there were police officers going round the crowd from about 6.30pm with an obvious script along the lines of “you shouldn’t be here because Covid; go home or £200 fine” etc. Very confrontational.

An alternative script was available (e.g. “we are trying to balance your right to protest with the public health concerns; would you mind moving on once you’ve paid your respects”). The Met chose not to police it in this way.

This is exactly what was going on around 7pm-ish, police walking around (in pairs, although there were already a lot of them on the bandstand & large groups standing by, or starting to carry people off) - shouting "anyone who doesn't leave now will be fined or arrested" (exact words) - amongst the people in the area around the bandstand, who were naturally socially distanced (and 99% mask wearing) by that point. Around the benches where people had lights & candles, it wasn't any busier than a regular Saturday afternoon.

Before I left, it seemed like there were a lot of yellow-jacketed groups of police standing by - in very obvious army-like formation. It looked very much like was intended to scare people into leaving, and I left as soon as I heard someone mention kettling, having come for a quiet vigil not a protest. (Next time, I will be protesting - better prepared & better informed...)

Even though it was a little later than the official vigil, it mostly seemed to be women about Sarah Everard's age, who looked like they lived nearby & had just walked over. Alone, with partners, in small groups that could be housemates - normal for Clapham!

 

[Miss-Shelf]

The indie live streams were certainly getting more footage of police activity last night than all the MSM feeds who seemed to be enclosed and static on a quieter side of the band stand.

On the noisy side, it was interesting to hear the differences between the chants women were starting and the ones men were starting.

I think I made the right choice not to go there as a man on my my own.

Quite a few men were there, some on their own
I arrived about 6 30 so police had already changed the mood by entering the bandstand
It was mainly women stating chants from my hearing
Plenty of women saying ACAB, arrest your own, get your hands of my sister,

Chants of scum, murderers were from everyone when police where dragging people away and kicking and flinging people
out of the way

 

[Gramsci]

I think I made the right choice not to go there as a man on my own.

I also decided not to go as I felt this was a vigil organised by women for women. Which is fair enough imo.

I can understand some men went to report on the vigil for media.

I did put donation into the organisers legal fund. Which now looks like will be necessary for some of the women arrested.

 

[Ms Ordinary]

.
I think I made the right choice not to go there as a man on my own.

There were some men there, they weren't unwelcome - especially the ones acting as observers & filming the police! (This included men & women of course).

But I agree, I think it was good that it was mostly women, so I am glad more weren't there.

 

[two sheds]

From reddit: "This could have been the photograph on the front pages today such a shame the police had to ruin it"

 

[Ms Ordinary]

I chatted to a couple of blokes who were there because they lived literally on the edge of the common, they were standing well back, not intruding on women's space, and I encouraged them to stay around as observers (just before I left )

That's fine IMO, glad it didn't attract numbers of men from further afield.

 

[muscovyduck]

Sorry to be asking so many questions on this thread and not really contributing much. Regarding tonight's protests, is there stuff going on around the country too?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Sorry to be asking so many questions on this thread and not really contributing much. Regarding tonight's protests, is there stuff going on around the country too?

I've heard of vigils in Brighton (which kicked off) and Nottingham (which didn't)

 

[Ms Ordinary]

The organisers went to court to try to force the Met to cooperate. Having refused, the police waited until nightfall when many had already left to steam in and assault people. Disgusting, cowardly, and very deliberate.

This is exactly what it felt like.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Cases like Sarah Everard's are not 'incredibly rare' and the police must admit it

Cressida Dick’s statement minimised the risk women face from men – and fits with years of police and government failure to treat the issue seriously

www.theguardian.com

 

[editor]

There were some men there, they weren't unwelcome - especially the ones acting as observers & filming the police! (This included men & women of course).

But I agree, I think it was good that it was mostly women, so I am glad more weren't there.

Given the circumstances, I was hyper sensitive but didn't feel unwelcome in the slightest at any point. If I had, I would have left immediately. I'm glad I went along to support the vigil.

 

[kenny g]

https://www.youtube.com/c/SubjectAc...&rootVe=3611&disable_polymer=true&rootVe=3611 is a good stream of the event. The guy has been recording all the covid fruit loopery protests over the past few months.