Renegotiating terms at work - how do I do it?

[QOTH]

I've been in my job five years, and I really hate it. I find it stressful, unfulfilling and I'm underperforming.

I'm at the point where I'm considering resigning and taking my chances - but there's an option that's occured to me that is potentially a win for me and the business. Another department needs someone with my skills, such as they are. They've already asked me to do some work for them, so the work is there, and I think there's actually quite a lot of it.

Is there a good, professional way of framing a discussion with my boss that says 'I don't think this is working for either of us, how about this thing instead?' . Ettiquette wise, should I be sussing out the other department first before I jump in and start causing ructions in my current job? Or is that underhand and weasly? Can you be sacked for saying you want to leave?

Failing that, is it possible to negotiate a longer notice period? I have projects that i can't just drop so it's in their interest as well.

 

[Supine]

Talk in terms of broadening experience, career development. Definately NOT in terms of things currently not working. Be positive and come over as pro-active. A happy boss is more likely to help you...

 

[QOTH]

Talk in terms of broadening experience, career development. Definately NOT in terms of things currently not working. Be positive and come over as pro-active. A happy boss is more likely to help you...

It's not really career development though. What I'm actually asking for is a step downwards (or at least sideways) for the sake of my physical and mental health. It'd probably be a pay cut but I no longer care.

 

[Supine]

Positive spin, it is career broadening

 

[Idaho]

Can you have a conversation with the Head of the other department first. Sound them out. If you get positive feedback - speak to your boss. Professional means making reasonable decisions - no reason why you should feel bad.

 

[equationgirl]

Are you in a union? This is something they could help with.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Assuming we're talking UK law...

You've gone beyond any probationary period, and with more than 2 years' service in, you can bring an unfair dismissal claim (although it may cost you to do so) so you can't just be sacked for saying you want to leave, although bear in mind that some employers are fairly good at making life pretty damn uncomfortable for people they want to leave or coming up with dodgy disciplinaries.

Is this job in the other department something that's going to be formally advertised (internally at least) or is this the sort of workplace where jobs can be created / filled as and when and how management feel like it?

Is there a formal policy for secondments within the organisation?

Do you have any sort of performance review which gives the chance to talk about future aspirations and that sort of thing?

Is this work in the other department a long term thing or short term? If it's short term, how can you persuade all concerned that it's better for you to go and do this work (and presume they would have to make temporary arrangements to cover your current job - especially with you saying there's projects you can't just drop - what would happen to them?) rather than just make temporary arrangements to cover this new work? - and how will all concerned deal with it when the new work ends and you'd be going back to your current role?

Telling current boss first then finding out other department already have someone in mind would possibly be the worst of both worlds, so taking some sort of soundings from the other department might be an idea. Although other department's boss may say something to your current boss.

Resigning without anything to go to is something of a risk. Conventional wisdom says it's easier to get a job when you're already in one, but if current job takes up too much of your time, energy and self esteem, that's not always the case.

Especially when (potential) new employers want you to go to an assessment thing, then an initial interview then a second interview, mostly at a day or two's notice.

Also, resigning from a job generally means you're disqualified from getting the dole, or at best end up on a 'hardship payment' which is even less than the dole.

You know your financial situation and chances of getting another job in whatever field you work in - only you can make this decision.

In any case, you'll need to think about what you're going to say in job applications / interviews about why you want to leave / have left this job. Broadly speaking, being negative about last employer does not go down well, even if they are a bunch of utter arseweasels - much the same as being on a first date and going on about what a ratbag your ex is.

If you're thinking of leaving anyway, then arguably there's little to lose in showing an interest in this possible new job.

Not quite sure what you mean about notice periods - there's nothing to stop you saying you want to resign but giving longer than contractual notice, although employer might say that they'd rather not. Working out notice can be uncomfortable for all concerned, and do you want (and does your boss want you) to have to train your replacement?

Best of luck, either way.

 

[Manter]

QOTH do you have any health history (repetitive short term absence for health reasons, declared disability?)

 

[QOTH]

QOTH do you have any health history (repetitive short term absence for health reasons, declared disability?)

Nope - I've not had a day off sick in five years. I do have a diagnosis for workplace stress but they don't know that at the moment.

 

[Idaho]

Did you get a chance to speak to the boss of the other department?

 

[eoin_k]

It's not really career development though. What I'm actually asking for is a step downwards (or at least sideways) for the sake of my physical and mental health. It'd probably be a pay cut but I no longer care.

A step downwards can be career development. Many 'careers' today 'develop' along a higgledy-piggledy path between various, unrelated, not-particularly-well-paid or personally rewarding jobs. This might not be the best way to present things to your boss. Something about realising that you need to move sideways, or perhaps even downwards, in order to pursue the path that you now wish to yada yada yada... might be more appropriate.

 

[Pingu]

A step downwards can be career development. Many 'careers' today 'develop' along a higgledy-piggledy path between various, unrelated, not-particularly-well-paid or personally rewarding jobs. This might not be the best way to present things to your boss. Something about realising that you need to move sideways, or perhaps even downwards, in order to pursue the path that you now wish to yada yada yada... might be more appropriate.

Aye i have just taken a role that could be seen as a big step downwards.. but i get to be home each evening and i get to learn something new. that is still developing your career.

 

[QOTH]

Did you get a chance to speak to the boss of the other department?

No - depending on your viewpoint I either bottled it or made a tactical decision to wait until I'd had some sessions with a therapist / banked another pay cheque. I actually feel slightly better at the moment - possibly because of the impending 2 weeks off.

Not having ever been an anxious person previously, It's like work has 'given' me an anxiety disorder I didn't have before and it's now extending its remit into other areas of my life. I can cope with feeling stressed about work while I'm at work - but I'm starting to feel stressed about basically everything, all the time, and that's not a situation that I'm willing to be in.

I have applied for another job in another company and it's one that I'm extremely well qualified for. So let's see.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Good luck QOTH I hope you get a positive answer from the other company. Work isn't worth that much stress and anxiety.

 

[Idaho]

No - depending on your viewpoint I either bottled it or made a tactical decision to wait until I'd had some sessions with a therapist / banked another pay cheque. I actually feel slightly better at the moment - possibly because of the impending 2 weeks off.

Not having ever been an anxious person previously, It's like work has 'given' me an anxiety disorder I didn't have before and it's now extending its remit into other areas of my life. I can cope with feeling stressed about work while I'm at work - but I'm starting to feel stressed about basically everything, all the time, and that's not a situation that I'm willing to be in.
I have applied for another job in another company and it's one that I'm extremely well qualified for. So let's see.

I work for a big high pressure company. Worked there for over a decade. It's usually OK - but every now and then it tries to break me. It sucks me into caring a little too much and taking on too much. Before I know it I'm not sleeping. I'm miserable. I feel unwell and tense all the time. I get moments of clarity when I get wasted at the weekend and realise that I've been on the edge again. Or when I go to the doctors for some routine thing and find myself in tears when they ask "how's everything else going?"

You have to be the one at work who looks after you, and cares about you - because not many others care enough (or at all).

 

[equationgirl]

I work for a big high pressure company. Worked there for over a decade. It's usually OK - but every now and then it tries to break me. It sucks me into caring a little too much and taking on too much. Before I know it I'm not sleeping. I'm miserable. I feel unwell and tense all the time. I get moments of clarity when I get wasted at the weekend and realise that I've been on the edge again. Or when I go to the doctors for some routine thing and find myself in tears when they ask "how's everything else going?"

You have to be the one at work who looks after you, and cares about you - because not many others care enough (or at all).

*takes notes*

 

[QOTH]

As always, thanks for responding to this thread. I appreciate your insights.

I have a second interview next week for a new job. It'd involve some lifestyle / family changes that have their pros and cons, but at the moment I can't see how any job could actually make me feel worse than I do now.

I feel undermined, unmotivated, like nothing I do is ever good enough for the business and a bit of a liability. I'm being asked to do work 'better' (against arbitrary quality criteria) 'within budget' and 'more independently / with less handholding' and I just don't see how I can do all of those three at once. I can do better work independently but it'll take longer. I can be more independent and within budget but it won't be as 'good'. I can work better and within budget but I need more managerial support for that.

New job is with a bigger company that makes a big deal of being 'supportive' and 'developing people' which i only half believe, because capitalism is as capitalism does. But I do think it'll be a more team based, collaborative, co-operative environment not the gunfight at the OK bloody corrall which is how every day feels at the moment.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Fingers crossed for the job QOTH

 

[equationgirl]

Fingers crossed it's good news QOTH

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I have a second interview next week for a new job.

hope it goes well

 

[QOTH]

I got the job!!!

Will involve some lifestyle changes (getting up a bit earlier and actually going to the office) but I think that might be a good thing. I feel like I need more human contact and more of a team atmosphere.

So, next question...

As a remote worker (HQ is just south of london) should I make the trip in person or can I do it over the phone? It's just about doable in one day for me but I don't get much change out of 4 hours each way.

I'm a great believer in not burning bridges and I want to do the right thing. But it also means a delay in getting things moving.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I got the job!!!

getting up a bit earlier

As a remote worker (HQ is just south of london) should I make the trip in person or can I do it over the phone? It's just about doable in one day for me but I don't get much change out of 4 hours each way.

you mean to resign your current job?

you will almost certainly need to put it on paper either way, and check your contract to see what notice period you're supposed to give.

(and for that matter, is the new offer still 'subject to references' and such, or have they given you a start date?)

gut feeling is it's probably better to tell them first rather than have them find out when they get a reference request.

depends very much what the set-up is. Is your boss someone you see in person now and then? would they be in a position to take a phone call somewhere quiet? would they be in the office if you did drop in or would you need to book a meeting?

my last job was very remote - I worked round the London & SE patch, but my manager was based somewhere obscure in Lancashire, and I never visited the head office, so I certainly didn't go there to quit.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Well done!!! Such great news QOTH

I think since you are a remote worker it's probably fine to do it over the phone and then follow up with an email as your official written resignation.

 

[QOTH]

Yes, I definitely wouldn't submit references until I've told my current employer.

I feel like I ought to do a face to face, but my boss is out of the country til wednesday and he may be too busy to see me after a week and a half off. Rocking up uninvited to say 'Guess what? I quit!' seems a bit weird.

Booking a face to face will raise the question of what it's about in which case I might as well just make the phone call...

 

[weltweit]

Congratulations on the new job!!

 

[equationgirl]

Congratulations QOTH

 

[existentialist]

I think that the best way in the circumstances is to book a phone chat with the boss - sure, he's going to speculate as to why, but you can't help that - and give him the good news then. That way, he has an opportunity to ensure that he's taking the call at his convenience, rather than suddenly getting a call when he's in the middle of a meeting, etc.

And be ready to offer to meet face to face to confirm/discuss it, and make transitional arrangements, etc.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

he's taking the call at his convenience

that's a funny place to take a phone call...

 

[QOTH]

Well, it's done. I handed in my notice yesterday.

I feel like the world's worst human being! You know when relationships end and it's not because it's really anyone's fault but between the two of you, you just couldn't make it work? My boss was really shocked and it's going to cause them some problems.

But there's only so long you can slog away at something that's not working before you get ill and mental.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Well, it's done. I handed in my notice yesterday.

I feel like the world's worst human being! You know when relationships end and it's not because it's really anyone's fault but between the two of you, you just couldn't make it work? My boss was really shocked and it's going to cause them some problems.

But there's only so long you can slog away at something that's not working before you get ill and mental.

Well done!

If you leaving is going to cause problems, than that's the companies lookout for not having proper systems and procedures in place... That's why notice periods. Anyway it's their problem, not yours, not anymore! Wahoo