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Remote working - now one day a month in office.... 300+ miles away.

newme

newme

Giant in Pastyland now
This has just been brought in and I'm now expected there next week. I don't technically work for them but am hired in through another company who were always excluded from this requirement before. As apparently is someone else on the same team from my company as they do 2 days there where I do 4. Tho I'm sure they changed that from 2 to 3.

I'd have to go the night before on a 4-6 hour train, stay in a hotel. Take 2 laptops with me and work kit. Then do the whole lot in reverse and probably arrive back at 9-10pm. I was specifically taken on as remote.

Of course my line manager is now away until Friday. I can't even book tickets myself either.

Have managed to find someone to deal with this for me but I'm having to basically ignore me other line manager asking if I'm OK for next week while the ridiculous expenses claim this will generate is proposed as an idea against it. Apparently they thought this would not be their problem and our billing department takes issue with that so that's a possible out.

I also have back issues, a very expensive chair and custom desk setup because of this. So don't really fancy 8-10 hours total of train journeys, a crap hotel bed instead of my adjustable one and then an awful office seat for 8 hours.

Bleh
 
So your employer has accepted their need to make reasonable adjustments in the form of a very expensive chair and custom desk setup. You can, therefore, insist on having these in the actual office space. Demand it and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they suddenly found a way that you could work remotely that day too.
 
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belboid said:
So your employer has accepted their need to make reasonable adjustments in the form of a very expensive chair and custom desk setup. You can, therefore, insist on having these in the actual office space. Demand it and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they suddenly found a way that you could work remotely that day too.
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It's all my kit I setup for a previous role, they just sent some subpar laptops. It's kind of an odd role as I am going into a two different public sector environments but as a consultant via filling whatever gaps they have at the time.

I don't particularly want to start causing waves as I've been here 2 months and it's a massive increase in salary that's basically changed our lives away from paycheque to paycheque already. I also don't want to potentially wreck my back for some pointless showing my face exercise. I take a lumbar support to the cinema or in a car and an hour or two is doable with meds timed properly. 17-18 hours on crap chairs and 8 hours in a crap hotel bed sounds a bad idea.

We are pushing the expenses idea now. Or at least I found someone who is basically fixing this hopefully. I also don't really want to be in an office and having to take morphine in front of colleagues....
 
Re back issue. Say yeah, you can come to work in the office, but first they need to make the legally required reasonable adjustments for people with disabilities, so you'll have to apply through DWP Access to Work for the disability equipment grant, who will have to carry out a workplace assessment, and once they've made the appointment and carried out the assessment and your new bespoke chair and adjustable height desk have been ordered and delivered, and that's probably going to take around 4-5 months.
 
With this being a change to your normal contracted conditions and the timescale for all the "reasonable adjustments" needed, I would be suggesting that "they" haven't allowed enough time / budget and to forgo the experience.

Basically, not enough notice !
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
Re back issue. Say yeah, you can come to work in the office, but first they need to make the legally required reasonable adjustments for people with disabilities, so you'll have to apply through DWP Access to Work for the disability equipment grant, who will have to carry out a workplace assessment, and once they've made the appointment and carried out the assessment and your new bespoke chair and adjustable height desk have been ordered and delivered, and that's probably going to take around 4-5 months.
Click to expand...
StoneRoad said:
With this being a change to your normal contracted conditions and the timescale for all the "reasonable adjustments" needed, I would be suggesting that "they" haven't allowed enough time / budget and to forgo the experience.

Basically, not enough notice !
Click to expand...
My contract is actually with company and my home is assigned my office, they just sent me a few laptops. When I was brought on it was specifically asked if I would consider doing hybrid at any locations and I said no. They said they currently had no one who required this and were not looking to take on clients who did. This was just getting a record incase opportunities came up in the future.

It's not been raised to leadership on our side by myself and the other person. Its been suggested this maybe a misreading of a memo that went out stating employees must attend. Usually if we are to be included this is specifically mentioned. It was also sent out at a meeting they stopped us attending to save money on paying us to be there....
 
MickiQ said:
Also raise the point that your health conditions make a 6hr train journey risky for you and suggest they pay for a flight.
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Given its my back and I'm 6'3, I should also probably get extra leg room!

Flight is actually cheaper. Of course they'd need to taxi me to the airport since I don't drive, public transport would take about 4 hours, 3 trains and then another taxi and its only 30 miles....
 
Well as of Friday afternoon this was unresolved. One of the decision makers is on jury duty which is somewhat complicating matters. Suits me.
 
newme said:
This has just been brought in and I'm now expected there next week. I don't technically work for them but am hired in through another company who were always excluded from this requirement before. As apparently is someone else on the same team from my company as they do 2 days there where I do 4. Tho I'm sure they changed that from 2 to 3.

I'd have to go the night before on a 4-6 hour train, stay in a hotel. Take 2 laptops with me and work kit. Then do the whole lot in reverse and probably arrive back at 9-10pm. I was specifically taken on as remote.

Of course my line manager is now away until Friday. I can't even book tickets myself either.

Have managed to find someone to deal with this for me but I'm having to basically ignore me other line manager asking if I'm OK for next week while the ridiculous expenses claim this will generate is proposed as an idea against it. Apparently they thought this would not be their problem and our billing department takes issue with that so that's a possible out.

I also have back issues, a very expensive chair and custom desk setup because of this. So don't really fancy 8-10 hours total of train journeys, a crap hotel bed instead of my adjustable one and then an awful office seat for 8 hours.

Bleh
Click to expand...

What does your contract say about work location?
 
hmm

on the basis i'm no lawyer, and it's been a while since i have been a union rep, but...

at the risk of stating the bloody obvious, your contract and terms and conditions of employment are with the company that employs you, not with their client organisation. the legal relationship with client organisation is between your employer and client organisation, not between you and client organisation. (although there's probably an implied if not written clause in your employment contract about following client organisation's house rules and 'reasonable instructions' if you're seconded to work at their place.)

what does your contract say about location of workplace, travel and accommodation time and costs when you need to travel for work, e.g. meetings at clients' premises, and hours of work? and if your contract doesn't go in to specifics, what's the 'custom and practice' with your employer?

i don't see that the travel time / cost should be considered your time not work time. if (say) you had to go to a lunch time meeting a couple of hours away, would you only get paid for the 3 hour meeting and not the 2 hours travel each way? or would the whole thing be treated as a working day? and if so, why the heck would they say a 6 hour journey each way is your own time?

then there's the 'reasonable adjustments' angle. i'm not quite clear if the custom desk and chair setup you mention is something that you have agreed with employer following some sort of discussion / assessment of your back problems, or if it's something you had already constructed at home.

there is case law that if employee hasn't told employer about a disability / health condition, then employer can't be held liable for not making adjustments (although i'm fully aware that the catch is if you do tell them, it may just encourage them to find another excuse either not to employ you in the first place, or to get rid of you.)

i'm a bit out of touch on equalities act (previously DDA) stuff, but gut feeling is this may be the path to go down. If you have had a discussion about this with employer, did the question of long distance train travel / working at clients' premises come up in discussion? or was that not on the radar at the time?
 
Spymaster said:
What does your contract say about work location?
Click to expand...
Home, it was supposed to be entirely remote.
Puddy_Tat said:
hmm

on the basis i'm no lawyer, and it's been a while since i have been a union rep, but...

at the risk of stating the bloody obvious, your contract and terms and conditions of employment are with the company that employs you, not with their client organisation. the legal relationship with client organisation is between your employer and client organisation, not between you and client organisation. (although there's probably an implied if not written clause in your employment contract about following client organisation's house rules and 'reasonable instructions' if you're seconded to work at their place.)

what does your contract say about location of workplace, travel and accommodation time and costs when you need to travel for work, e.g. meetings at clients' premises, and hours of work? and if your contract doesn't go in to specifics, what's the 'custom and practice' with your employer?

i don't see that the travel time / cost should be considered your time not work time. if (say) you had to go to a lunch time meeting a couple of hours away, would you only get paid for the 3 hour meeting and not the 2 hours travel each way? or would the whole thing be treated as a working day? and if so, why the heck would they say a 6 hour journey each way is your own time?

then there's the 'reasonable adjustments' angle. i'm not quite clear if the custom desk and chair setup you mention is something that you have agreed with employer following some sort of discussion / assessment of your back problems, or if it's something you had already constructed at home.

there is case law that if employee hasn't told employer about a disability / health condition, then employer can't be held liable for not making adjustments (although i'm fully aware that the catch is if you do tell them, it may just encourage them to find another excuse either not to employ you in the first place, or to get rid of you.)

i'm a bit out of touch on equalities act (previously DDA) stuff, but gut feeling is this may be the path to go down. If you have had a discussion about this with employer, did the question of long distance train travel / working at clients' premises come up in discussion? or was that not on the radar at the time?
Click to expand...
Any travel costs are paid by my company, I was supposed to go pickup a laptop before and they were going to book a train for me. Basically arrive at lunchtime, 3 hours then come home for about 9pm. Strikes stopped that and they mailed it, which seemed more sensible anyway.

Apparently we can only charge them when working between 7-5, no idea why this is the case as people have incredibly flexible schedules however we only have to book the number of hours.

Hybrid was discussed at interview and I specifically said no to it, they said they had no clients that expected it and were not looking to take on any but its also contract renewal time in a few months for the company for our contract with the other organisation.....
 
Thinking with my fairly senior manager hat on, I'd be wondering if the decision makers at your client company actually know what the situation is. It's not unknown in organisations for a senior bod to say 'it would be nice, if possible...', and for a more junior bod to decide that it's 'thou shalt, on pain of death...' because they either think that's what the senior means, or they want to be a toadying arse.

I'd have a conversation with as senior person as you can within your company, work out what you could do - alternative client location etc... as well as what you simply cannot, and for them to have a conversation with as senior a person as they can in the client company.

You may have to share more about your health than you'd like, but unless the client actually understands what the problem is, they may just think that it's 'don't want to'.

It might help to put it into an analogy - let's say that instead of a health barrier, you've got a childcare barrier: let's say you've got two kids in primary school, you've got no one who can have them, so no you can't work outside of school wrap-around care, or take a risk with flights and trains. That will be something they are probably more familiar with, and something that's easier to accept/understand.

Good luck, it sounds like a bucket of shit.
 
kebabking said:
Thinking with my fairly senior manager hat on, I'd be wondering if the decision makers at your client company actually know what the situation is. It's not unknown in organisations for a senior bod to say 'it would be nice, if possible...', and for a more junior bod to decide that it's 'thou shalt, on pain of death...' because they either think that's what the senior means, or they want to be a toadying arse.

I'd have a conversation with as senior person as you can within your company, work out what you could do - alternative client location etc... as well as what you simply cannot, and for them to have a conversation with as senior a person as they can in the client company.

You may have to share more about your health than you'd like, but unless the client actually understands what the problem is, they may just think that it's 'don't want to'.

It might help to put it into an analogy - let's say that instead of a health barrier, you've got a childcare barrier: let's say you've got two kids in primary school, you've got no one who can have them, so no you can't work outside of school wrap-around care, or take a risk with flights and trains. That will be something they are probably more familiar with, and something that's easier to accept/understand.

Good luck, it sounds like a bucket of shit.
Click to expand...
Its possible it is a complete misunderstanding with the business partner wanting to get numbers in. Team was 8 before I joined but 1 left/got reorganised since doing that is always fun for no ones morale. Currently its 7 I think including the BP. 3 of us are from my company, 2 at least are 3-5 hours away, not sure about the other one but they are excused for some reason, distance was mentioned which seemed odd but also 2-3 days versus my 4, I was originally on 3 anyway at that place but they asked for more.... One based there is leaving next week anyway due to the reorganisation. So thats 6 booked desks and travel to meet people I speak to all day everyday anyway if they have absolutely anything at all to do with work and video on is standard. To miss 1/7 who won't go anyway, 1/7 who leaves at the end of next week, 1/7 who usually can't do that day of the week specifically because of childcare issues, then 2/7 who are going to be actively annoyed we got pulled in and forced to spend a huge amount of time travelling. Leaving the BP who I speak to on video every day and another coworker I work with very closely too, again on video...

Notice went out at a meeting my company now does not attend, since they wanted to cut 1 hour we all spend in that off the pay as its generally internal. There was a email accompanying it which said employees will be expected in every 2nd x day of the month. No mention of us specifically which they usually do, but BP insists this is the case.

I've gone to head person and the one below them our side, presented my points and they went with the finance issue since they are not intending to spend several hundred per employee per month extra just for us to go to the office when its them requesting it. So it would go to them on expenses, while they are apparently thinking it would not be on expenses and the company would pay for it. They are talking to the head of the that, idk department, but it covers like 7 others.

Apart from anything else I don't drive, so even to get to a station to get there my SO will have to drive me and pick me up on the way back, which given a normal working day and a 5 hour trip is not very compatible with a 10 year old in the house. My elder son is actually here but they don't actually know we have someone to take him when I am being picked up 20 miles away at potentially 10pm. Either way the way it is left now is I could find out at the earliest, 9am Monday, then need to book travel and a hotel that day to get there, or the next day and turn up for 3 hours while being paid for the whole thing, which I would push for if there was no other option based on I am not being paid for any travel time otherwise. Which also may make the cost benefit on it rather skewed. They just brought in 3 more of ours to plug gaps from when people didn't like the restructure and that was only announced last week so I think us not getting the continued contract is remote as they would immediately lose coverage for looking at just 4 people whose projects I saw on the tracker, about £130m of current stuff while short on staff....
 
Puddy_Tat said:
you would have to get a taxi each way and expect employer to reimburse this as part of your travel costs
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Good point, I should probably get the closer train too in that case, thats a single track line that connects to the other one and would add a good 45 minutes to the journey, assuming I am going in the morning and it would be during work time.
 
newme said:
Notice went out at a meeting my company now does not attend, since they wanted to cut 1 hour we all spend in that off the pay as its generally internal. There was a email accompanying it which said employees will be expected in every 2nd x day of the month. No mention of us specifically which they usually do, but BP insists this is the case.
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You're not an employee. You're a contractor.
 
I’d drop an e-mail saying it seems odd but ok you will attend with reasonable adjustments. Spend the day before travelling. Six hours. And the day after traveling six hours. Make up the time in the hotel. Taxi to the station and back. First class ticket (reasonable adjustment to ensure a seat and space to manage your medical condition). Two nights in a hotel of sufficient standard to ensure you don’t make your condition worse ( try for a premier inn accessible room, but if /as they had sold out you might have to go to a more expensive chain. Evening meals and breakfasts obvs as you are away from home on company business.

So that’s two days where almost all of your paid time was sitting on a train and probably the fat end of a £1000 in expenses.

Might promote a re think.
 
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kebabking said:
Thinking with my fairly senior manager hat on, I'd be wondering if the decision makers at your client company actually know what the situation is. It's not unknown in organisations for a senior bod to say 'it would be nice, if possible...', and for a more junior bod to decide that it's 'thou shalt, on pain of death...' because they either think that's what the senior means, or they want to be a toadying arse.

I'd have a conversation with as senior person as you can within your company, work out what you could do - alternative client location etc... as well as what you simply cannot, and for them to have a conversation with as senior a person as they can in the client company.

You may have to share more about your health than you'd like, but unless the client actually understands what the problem is, they may just think that it's 'don't want to'.

It might help to put it into an analogy - let's say that instead of a health barrier, you've got a childcare barrier: let's say you've got two kids in primary school, you've got no one who can have them, so no you can't work outside of school wrap-around care, or take a risk with flights and trains. That will be something they are probably more familiar with, and something that's easier to accept/understand.

Good luck, it sounds like a bucket of shit.
Click to expand...

^^^
This , I worked somewhere where a very senior person decided they wanted the start of day all department leads meeting to start at 0830 not 1000. This meant that the grunts who had to do all the preparation had to get in at 530 (and went home at 1330 just when their role got busy…)
 
A380 said:
^^^
This , I worked somewhere where a very senior person decided they wanted the start of day all department leads meeting to start at 0830 not 1000. This meant that the grunts who had to do all the preparation had to get in at 530 (and went home at 1330 just when their role got busy…)
Click to expand...
I think they are also considering the fact that apparently they were originally asked to go on once a week and it was roundly objected to. The employees that is. So once a month and showing numbers might stop them in a way.

A380 said:
I’d drop an e-mail saying it seems odd but ok you will attend with reasonable adjustments. Spend the day before travelling. Six hours. And the day after traveling six hours. Make up the time in the hotel. Taxi to the station and back. First class ticket (reasonable adjustment to ensure a seat and space to manage your medical condition). Two nights in a hotel of sufficient standard to ensure you don’t make your condition worse ( try for a premier inn accessible room, but if /as they had sold out you might have to go to a more expensive chain. Evening meals and breakfasts obvs as you are away from home on company business.

So that’s two days where almost all of your paid time was sitting on a train and probably the fat end of a £1000 in expenses.

Might promote a re think.
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Salaried, can't bill client outside of hours. Could in theory find out at 9, get train at 12 charge them for train til 5 then hotel, i dont even know about food expenses as I never looked since remote. My wage makes no difference either way. I can't even book travel let alone choose what method. So someone else would have to book it Monday anyway, since I'm supposed to be remote.... hotel they use is actually nicer than a premier Inn.

Whole thing won't happen they don't have remotely enough time left to sort it anyway and get people to comply.
 
kalmatthew said:
If your not an employee then surely they can't insist on your working location. If they do then isn't there a risk or falls within IR35 and the taz implications that goes with it
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Had to deal with this myself before, it's definitely questionable. My contract says I work at home, companies contract with them may say something else but that's really not my issue in theory. Also a huge career and salary jump tho and still on probation... after taking 4 months to recruit me I figure they are not in a hurry to get rid tho. Especially on my day rate v what they ate charging for it. Even with real costs applied to my rate not just salary.
 
Well I am not going, neither are everyone from my company, so 7 down to 4, then one leaves next week and one is transferring internally after that. In addition to that 2 of the 7 in my company team are moving on. Smells like job security which is nice for a probation period. Did have a session on a specific topic where a specific threshold was 1/10 of the value they sent us in an email the week before. Had a how to avoid burnout session today, sandwiched in 4 hours of continous meetings.....
 
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