Property developer Gerry Knight & Lexadon fined £175k under Proceeds of Crime Act

[Tulster218]

I disagree but I'm still waiting to find out why a predatory landlord demanding full whack for every property he gets his hands on - and thus pricing out valuable community resources - is somehow good for the wider community.

And just to double check: you don't think landlords should have any sense of community cohesion or should feel even the tiniest obligation to give a little back to the the area they've ruthlessly exploited to build up their personal fortune?

Now, I'm not suggesting he should start giving away stuff or run anything at a loss, but there's a whole spectrum of possibilities running from charging enough to keep some tidy profit coming in (and thus allowing it to stay open), and cranking to the max for the fullest, fattest profit possible and pricing them out of town.

Same answer as before.

 

[editor]

Same answer as before.

Perhaps you'd be so kind to give me a shortened, simplified version with a clear explanation on how the community has benefited from a landlord raising rents so high that a long standing and valuable business has to close?

 

[Tulster218]

You don't need to be a Marxist to work out that workers produce value and are paid less than the value they produce, the difference being surplus value and thus exploitation. This doesn't rely on one accepting marx's politics

Waitrose is part of the John Lewis Partnership. Their employees own the business (the means of production as you like to call it). Their employment conditions are no better than employees of Aldi. There's no exploitation in either case.

Workers value their wage more than their labour. You could just as well argue that workers exploit employers. But they don't. It's a mutually beneficial transaction.

 

[Pickman's model]

Waitrose is part of the John Lewis Partnership. Their employees own the business (the means of production as you like to call it). Their employment conditions are no better than employees of Aldi. There's no exploitation in either case.

Workers value their wage more than their labour. You could just as well argue that workers exploit employers. But they don't. It's a mutually beneficial transaction.

there is exploitation in both cases. Workers cannot exploit employers as they will never be paid more than a fraction of the value they produce. And it is not a mutually beneficial transaction

 

[Tulster218]

Perhaps you'd be so kind to give me a shortened, simplified version with a clear explanation on how the community has benefited from a landlord raising rents so high that a long standing and valuable business has to close?

That was the shortened simplified version.

Brixton Hill Studios would never have been there for ten years without a landlord acting like a landlord.

After Brixton Hill Studios leave there'll be another business move in. You might not appreciate them, but other people might value what they have to offer.

 

[editor]

That was the shortened simplified version.

Brixton Hill Studios would never have been there for ten years without a landlord acting like a landlord.

After Brixton Hill Studios leave there'll be another business move in. You might not appreciate them, but other people might value what they have to offer.

So that's how you arrive at the conclusion that evicting a well loved rehearsal room is somehow a benefit for the community? Jeez.

 

[Tulster218]

So that's how you arrive at the conclusion that evicting a well loved rehearsal room is somehow a benefit for the community? Jeez.

No. That's a consequence of the observation that resources are best allocated by demand and supply.

 

[two sheds]

Like insulin prices in the US? That's a nice demand and supply equation.

 

[DaphneM]

That was the shortened simplified version.

Brixton Hill Studios would never have been there for ten years without a landlord acting like a landlord.

After Brixton Hill Studios leave there'll be another business move in. You might not appreciate them, but other people might value what they have to offer.

I get no benefit from a music studio personally

 

[Gramsci]

No. That's a consequence of the observation that resources are best allocated by demand and supply.

So in this system of a pure market there will be winners and losers?

It's not how you outlined your views of the market before.,

Post 155

Brixton Hill Studios, they both were giving up something they wanted, in return for something they wanted even more. Both parties gained from the transaction

And

Wealth is created when two parties make an exchange.... Both sides of the trade get something better than what they had. No one is being exploited. No one is being squeezed

And

Wealth can be created. We don't have to fight about who gets it, we can cooperate about how we create it together

The argument you put earlier in defence of markets/ exchange is that everyone is a winner out of this system.

It's clearly not. Even under what you are advocating as a pure market there will be winners and losers.

Your now saying Brixton hill studios may not be able to afford the new lease and so go. But that's ok as another business will take over the premises. Thus the "market " has allocated resources efficiently.

That is not what you were implying earlier to the editor

 

[Gramsci]

How lucky you are

I think you could be right on that

 

[Gramsci]

You cannot expect any kind of intelligence when discussing this kind of thing. Not worth arguing with them imho

The mask has slipped on this thread. Really getting to see where your coming from now.

The little wind up posts have now been replaced by showing the contempt you have for this site and the posters on it.

 

[Gramsci]

To make it clear. In practice I'm a reformist.

Marx Ive read volume one of Das Capital and I'd recommend it as analysis of 19c Victorian capitalism.

I do think there is a place for a social market. People like this running a small local music studio or my friends at Clarkshaws running a small brewery in a railway arch .

Instead of working for the "Man" ordinary people sometimes try to find ways of earning a living and doing something they love.

So my view is that a market based around providing social values should be protected.

Business like Lexadon / property developers in general should be controlled so they do not damage a community of small business that provide socially useful enterprises.

Just saying it's about supply and demand leaves small business at mercy of the market. And from what I've seen small niche business can't survive.

In London they might survive if they are supplying services to the super rich

But otherwise no

 

[Gramsci]

A practical example of what I mean is KIBA sites

In planning an area is designated as a Key Industrial Business Area.

This stops in London developers acquiring a plot of land and building more profitable housing on it.

It's a way of ensuring that an area has a mixture of development.

It ensures that small business have sites they can use.

Tulster218 is incorrect to say leave it to market.

In London if it was left to the "market" all small business would be under threat.

As developers would be eyeing the land they are on for more profitable gains.

 

[Gramsci]

Also business is divided between those providing a service and "rentier" capitalism.

Rentier capitalism is getting an asset people need, like housing or business premises, and in a parasitical fashion making an income out of this.

The way UK works is that Rentier business is in privileged position.

Extracting money out of those who work on back of just owning an asset people need.

 

[cuppa tee]

Also business is divided between those providing a service and "rentier" capitalism.

Rentier capitalism is getting an asset people need, like housing or business premises, and in a parasitical fashion making an income out of this.

The way UK works is that Rentier business is in privileged position.

Extracting money out of those who work on back of just owning an asset people need.

.....where does a business renting out space to musicians fit into this. ?

 

[Gramsci]

.....where does a business renting out space to musicians fit into this. ?

Have you been following this thread?

The argument put forward by a couple of posters is that the music studio should have seen this coming.

That they had had it easy and got a "reality" shock.

That supposedly, the argument goes, the "market" is egalitarian. That both Lexadon and the music studio enter into negotiations for a new lease as equal in terms of power.

If the music studio cannot afford the rent the invisible and supposedly politically neutral market sets then they will have to go.

This is not anyone's fault. Its how the market allocates resources in an efficient manner.

So anyone who object to this is being "prejudiced" and does not understand how a properly functioning free market should work.

That is my summary of what has been said so far on this thread.

 

[cuppa tee]

Have you been following this thread?

The argument put forward by a couple of posters is that the music studio should have seen this coming.

That they had had it easy and got a "reality" shock.

That supposedly, the argument goes, the "market" is egalitarian. That both Lexadon and the music studio enter into negotiations for a new lease as equal in terms of power.

If the music studio cannot afford the rent the invisible and supposedly politically neutral market sets then they will have to go.

This is not anyone's fault. Its how the market allocates resources in an efficient manner.

So anyone who object to this is being "prejudiced" and does not understand how a properly functioning free market should work.

That is my summary of what has been said so far on this thread.

sorry i just thought the question was apprpriate, the studio have space, the bands need space, so the studio rents it out to them at a price, granted theyre not as evil as our jerry, but theyre in the same game, sort of. or does being in music buy them some special status ?

 

[editor]

sorry i just thought the question was apprpriate, the studio have space, the bands need space, so the studio rents it out to them at a price, granted theyre not as evil as our jerry, but theyre in the same game, sort of. or does being in music buy them some credit?

Bell Ribeiro-Addy seems to think they're worthy of community support. So do I.

Just a reminder of how Lexadon have a record for trying to wriggle out of providing affordable units, and even tried to introduce 'poor doors' into one of their developments:

Property developer Lexadon plans 27 new builds along Acre Lane with uncertainty over level of ‘affordable’ units

Property developer Lexadon is planning on building 27 new residential units and three commercial units at the current site of Diamond Hire along Acre Lane.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Lambeth refuse planning permission for the ‘excessive’ bulk of proposed Lexadon Acre Lane redevelopment

Local property developer and multi-millionaire Jerry Knight has received a second knockback on his plans to redevelop the former Diamond Hire site in Acre Lane, Brixton.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Walton Lodge planning application recommended for approval with 13 private flats and zero social or affordable housing

The Lambeth Council Planning Committee has been recommended to approve an application submitted by local property tycoon Jerry Knight to convert the historic Walton Lodge on Coldharbour Lane into 1…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

And then there was that violent, illegal eviction on CHL:

Video captures builders forcing their way into squatted Walton Lodge building on Coldharbour Lane, Brixton

Video footage forwarded to Brixton Buzz shows builders and/or representatives of property developers Lexadon using violence to enter the squatted Walton Lodge building on Coldharbour Lane, Brixton.…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Squatter ‘attacked’ and one builder arrested as Walton Lodge in Brixton is evicted

Squatters occupying the former Walton Lodge laundry on Coldharbour Lane say that they were attacked by builders this morning, resulting in the police being called and one arrest made.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[cuppa tee]

Bell Ribeiro-Addy seems to think they're worthy of community support. So do I.

Just a reminder of how Lexadon have a record for trying to wriggle out of providing affordable units, and even tried to introduce 'poor doors' into one of their developments:

Property developer Lexadon plans 27 new builds along Acre Lane with uncertainty over level of ‘affordable’ units

Property developer Lexadon is planning on building 27 new residential units and three commercial units at the current site of Diamond Hire along Acre Lane.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Lambeth refuse planning permission for the ‘excessive’ bulk of proposed Lexadon Acre Lane redevelopment

Local property developer and multi-millionaire Jerry Knight has received a second knockback on his plans to redevelop the former Diamond Hire site in Acre Lane, Brixton.

www.brixtonbuzz.com

i do not need reminding of lexadons evil ways thanks im well aware....i'm just asking a simple question about renting out space as a business, i would stand up for a studio that serves the local musical community evry time even though the industry side is dodgy as fuck....

 

[editor]

i do not need reminding of lexadons evil ways thanks im well aware....i'm just asking a simple question about renting out space as a business, i would stand up for a studio that serves the local musical community evry time even though the industry side is dodgy as fuck....

I wouldn't be surprised if Lexadon tried to repurpose the site for even more lucrative luxury flats.

 

[cuppa tee]

I wouldn't be surprised if Lexadon tried to repurpose the site for even more lucrative luxury flats.

i'd be surprised if they didnt.

 

[teuchter]

When I buy bananas in Tesco, I want the bananas more than I want my money, and Tesco wants my money more than it wants the bananas. We both gain something by the trade.

When I see a drowning child and offer to throw them a life-ring in exchange for their pocket money, they want the life ring more than their pocket money, and I want their pocket money more than the life ring.

Of course you might object that I only have the life ring because I'm the one standing on dry land, but I had to do some work to walk over and pick it up, and you might say that the child had to clean a chimney to earn their pocket money, but that's not my fault. You're just talking folk economics.

Fact is, we both have something of value to the other, so we just exchange, everyone's a winner and we don't need to talk about exploitation.

 

[Gramsci]

sorry i just thought the question was apprpriate, the studio have space, the bands need space, so the studio rents it out to them at a price, granted theyre not as evil as our jerry, but theyre in the same game, sort of. or does being in music buy them some special status ?

I've seen this question coming and previously answered it.

See my post 193 and 194

I'm a reformist so my answer compared to say Tulster218 is messy.

From someone like Tulster218 or DaphneM purest point of view someone like me can be criticised as being a hypocrite. Not consistent.

If we are going down this road then Nour Cash and Carry should not have been supported. If your happy with that.

Nor the small business in the arches evicted by Network rail

 

[Tulster218]

When I see a drowning child and offer to throw them a life-ring in exchange for their pocket money, they want the life ring more than their pocket money, and I want their pocket money more than the life ring.

Of course you might object that I only have the life ring because I'm the one standing on dry land, but I had to do some work to walk over and pick it up, and you might say that the child had to clean a chimney to earn their pocket money, but that's not my fault. You're just talking folk economics.

Fact is, we both have something of value to the other, so we just exchange, everyone's a winner and we don't need to talk about exploitation.

You might do it once, but if you were employed as the lifeguard then it would only be fair to pay you the going rate.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You might do it once, but if you were employed as the lifeguard then it would only be fair to pay you the going rate.

There's never a decent rate for frontline public services. The Market sees no value in them because The Market is a virus that's incapable of understanding that if it if kills its host it will die too.

 

[obowan]

When I see a drowning child and offer to throw them a life-ring in exchange for their pocket money, they want the life ring more than their pocket money, and I want their pocket money more than the life ring.

Of course you might object that I only have the life ring because I'm the one standing on dry land, but I had to do some work to walk over and pick it up, and you might say that the child had to clean a chimney to earn their pocket money, but that's not my fault. You're just talking folk economics.

Fact is, we both have something of value to the other, so we just exchange, everyone's a winner and we don't need to talk about exploitation.

exactly. theres a reason that the fire service is one of the oldest state run organisations. back in the first century AD, the wealthiest man in Rome, Crassus made huge amounts of money by offering a fire service for fires his gang started! they'd scope out houses of political opponents or rich individuals, torch it, and crassus would rock up and promise to out it out if they gave the house, contents, or political favours to him. the magic hand of the market.

 

[Pickman's model]

exactly. theres a reason that the fire service is one of the oldest state run organisations. back in the first century AD, the wealthiest man in Rome, Crassus made huge amounts of money by offering a fire service for fires his gang started! they'd scope out houses of political opponents or rich individuals, torch it, and crassus would rock up and promise to out it out if they gave the house, contents, or political favours to him. the magic hand of the market.

Bc not ad

 

[teuchter]

You might do it once, but if you were employed as the lifeguard then it would only be fair to pay you the going rate.

Who's going to employ me and why?

 

[DaphneM]

sorry i just thought the question was apprpriate, the studio have space, the bands need space, so the studio rents it out to them at a price, granted theyre not as evil as our jerry, but theyre in the same game, sort of. or does being in music buy them some special status ?

yes, here it does