Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Professionals send Brixton property prices surging by 15%

ymu said:
I'm enjoying a lot of your posts, especially now that I've read more of them :D - and I gave newbie too much credit on this thread for which I have apologised. I'm an aggressive arsehole at the best of times, and I've not slept for some time now which makes me unbearable. I'm sorry.

We managed to hit two of my more sensitive button issues in the only two threads we've interacted on. Here, I just find it really difficult to accept that high earners - presumably intelligent people with easy access to information - are unaware of the level of poverty in this country. It's reported on a lot, as is the ratio of the average house price to the average wage, as is the fact that the minimum wage is 25% below the living wage. Just the stuff that appears in the mainstream media makes it obvious that something is very, very wrong. It upsets me that more people haven't put two and two together. Yet.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you're not accounting for how people process information, in terms of being faced with what may seem "unpalatable" to us. People see the info, they intellectually acknowledge the info, but for some emotionally acknowledging it (and the concomitant consequences) doesn't happen, for reasons of self-protection. Too much cognitive dissonance between the poles of the issue, pretty much the same cognitive dissonance that means that sections of the working classes can sometimes be turned against one another.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Yeah, but you're not accounting for how people process information, in terms of being faced with what may seem "unpalatable" to us. People see the info, they intellectually acknowledge the info, but for some emotionally acknowledging it (and the concomitant consequences) doesn't happen, for reasons of self-protection. Too much cognitive dissonance between the poles of the issue, pretty much the same cognitive dissonance that means that sections of the working classes can sometimes be turned against one another.
Click to expand...
V good point, well made. Sort of what I tried so say badly in my next post :)
 
cesare said:
Exacerbated by state subsidy of business by way of working tax credits, HB etc rather than raising the NMW. And truly the salt rubbed in the wound by the Workfare fiasco. And yet constant demonising of people on/below breadline wages &/or benefits rather than the businesses extracting every drop of profit at their expense.
Click to expand...

What's annoying, in terms of the whole "corporate welfare" mess, is how near-impossible it is to quantify quite how much money/how many resources are transmitted from public purse to private pocket, given the sheer volume of routes that the transmission takes.
 
Winot said:
Agreed. The least the well-off can do (I include myself) is realise how fortunate they are and how tough it is for the rest. The trouble is, the bubble is very comfortable, and when everyone you know (I don't count your cleaner who you don't talk to) is in the same position it's easy for the unimaginative to imagine they aren't that well off because they know lots of people who are richer (a good test is to ask someone what proportion of the working population pay higher rate income tax). Or they just don't care (not Manter - she is clearly trying to engage despite the brickbats).
Click to expand...

For the moderately well-off, I think where you live has quite a big effect on how you perceive the level of poverty. In most parts of London (with the exception perhaps of the really wealthy parts) it's hard not to be aware of the relative wealth of people around you. In other British cities perhaps less so as rich and poor areas tend to be a bit less intertwined, geographically, than in London. If you live in the country or certain types of suburbia, driving to the out-of town supermarket, rarely using public transport, etc, I think it's really easy to have an existence where virtually all of the people you meet on a day-to-day basis are in a very similar economic bracket to you.
 
fortyplus said:
Careful that you don't unfairly demonise all business here. A lot of small businesses struggle to pay even the NMW. It galls me that Tesco and Argos use workfare slaves, but when my business partner and I were shredded with exhaustion after starting our enterprise we accepted the services of "volunteers" under an earlier (nuLab-initiated) scheme predating, but the inspiration for, IDS's workfare. It saved us; we retained one of them part-time on the NMW at the end of her 4-week volunteering period and she's been with us for over 18 months. We'd love to pay her more, but if we paid the LLW we'd either have to cut her hours and do the work ourselves, unpaid, instead of doing what we need to do to grow the business or be unable to pay the rent at the end of the month and end up closing.

[Argos' situation is also pretty precarious, despite its use of workfare slaves. Paying full NMW to its Christmas staff might accelerate its decline, because its business model is fucked against online shopping].
Click to expand...

Fair points all, though you're talking about a system that used short-term and less coercive placements, as opposed to what now appears to be a chain of different programmes whose aim is to "churn" the unemployed (in fact anyone below pension age who is "economically-inactive") through schemes that will feed a constant stream of free or near-free labour to large business.

And please please please don't say "grow the business" unless you're a horticulturalist! It's a vile assault on the English language. You develop a business! :p
 
Mrs Magpie said:
He's growing older and grumpier...it's a growing trend with many posters here, me included.
Click to expand...

I remember when his tagline was 'part of the problem' :eek: cos I think that was on a thread like this at least 8 years ago) but that's still how I think of his name in my head... "Newbie: part of the problem" :D.
 
ViolentPanda said:
What's annoying, in terms of the whole "corporate welfare" mess, is how near-impossible it is to quantify quite how much money/how many resources are transmitted from public purse to private pocket, given the sheer volume of routes that the transmission takes.
Click to expand...
Vast amounts of it go to intermediaries, parasitic organisations existing between the state and recipients. Our volunteers were "placed" with us by A4E, which is another reason we won't be using the scheme again. We got a bit of free labour, they got paid. Our apprentices also came through a "learning provider" which got paid to place them with us. Why the jobcentre couldn't do it beats me, but no, we have to have these private-sector organisations paid almost entirely public money to do what the public sector could and should be doing. It's a nasty web of semi-official corruption. Same sort of scam that G4S pulled on the Olympic security and there are hundreds more of these shadowy parasitic organisations existing to suck the life out of every new initiative from every department of government. Because they're private sector they're practically unaccountable, immune to FOI etc and mostly run by mates of those in power. They're much more dangerous than the quangos they have largely replaced.
 
fortyplus said:
Vast amounts of it go to intermediaries, parasitic organisations existing between the state and recipients. Our volunteers were "placed" with us by A4E, which is another reason we won't be using the scheme again. We got a bit of free labour, they got paid. Our apprentices also came through a "learning provider" which got paid to place them with us. Why the jobcentre couldn't do it beats me, but no, we have to have these private-sector organisations paid almost entirely public money to do what the public sector could and should be doing. It's a nasty web of semi-official corruption. Same sort of scam that G4S pulled on the Olympic security and there are hundreds more of these shadowy parasitic organisations existing to suck the life out of every new initiative from every department of government. Because they're private sector they're practically unaccountable, immune to FOI etc and mostly run by mates of those in power. They're much more dangerous than the quangos they have largely replaced.
Click to expand...
^^this.
 
ViolentPanda said:
What's annoying, in terms of the whole "corporate welfare" mess, is how near-impossible it is to quantify quite how much money/how many resources are transmitted from public purse to private pocket, given the sheer volume of routes that the transmission takes.
Click to expand...
Very annoying indeed; that smoke and mirrors effect distracts attention from the fact that the public is subsidising the profits going into the purses of private shareholders, in addition to wages being driven down and poverty levels increasing at the same time. Factor in increased food and utility prices (whilst the corporate providers are still making massive profits) and it's straight forward enough to see why the gap between rich and poor continues to widen.
 
teuchter said:
For the moderately well-off, I think where you live has quite a big effect on how you perceive the level of poverty. In most parts of London (with the exception perhaps of the really wealthy parts) it's hard not to be aware of the relative wealth of people around you. In other British cities perhaps less so as rich and poor areas tend to be a bit less intertwined, geographically, than in London. If you live in the country or certain types of suburbia, driving to the out-of town supermarket, rarely using public transport, etc, I think it's really easy to have an existence where virtually all of the people you meet on a day-to-day basis are in a very similar economic bracket to you.
Click to expand...

Although in general this is right, I'm not sure about the emboldened bit. I think it's perfectly possible to live cheek by jowl with people without realising just how tough it is for them - for that you've got to talk to them (ideally). After all, even the middle classes shop in Poundstretcher occaisionally, they just don't have to hold down two jobs on shifts to do so.
 
fortyplus said:
Yes. But there is a whole list of other things that have more pressing demands on our time and attention.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess it just depends how valuable their contribution has been. But if I could not have kept my own business afloat without having it subsidised by someone else taking below market rate for their work for over 18 months, and could not see myself in a position to up it any time soon, I'm fairly sure that I would make formal recognition of their input an absolute priority. It's easy to tell yourself that you will recognise their contribution later if everything starts going well but you can offer them some certainty by recognising it now. It benefits you as well as them because it makes your success all the more important to them. I know plenty of people who have worked their arses off for very little pay in return for a vague promise of equity which has never materialised for one reason or another. Sometimes the promise is forgotten. Other times they leave the company without anything formal having been agreed. Or ultimately they just can't agree details when the time comes. Yours is a limited company so issuing stock is dead easy. I appreciate that you aren't taking anything much home but to be honest, that's irrelevant because it is your business.

Out of interest, do you know how much would you have to put up the price of a loaf in order to raise all non-shareholding employee's wages to LLW?

I hadn't calculated what the LLW was equivalent to on a daily rate but realise I have not paid anyone less than that rate in over 10yrs - and I have employed some extremely unskilled labour. That said, some people are simply dreadful value even at that rate and I don't have them back. Not sure how the LLW helps them.
 
Winot said:
Although in general this is right, I'm not sure about the emboldened bit. I think it's perfectly possible to live cheek by jowl with people without realising just how tough it is for them - for that you've got to talk to them (ideally). After all, even the middle classes shop in Poundstretcher occaisionally, they just don't have to hold down two jobs on shifts to do so.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess its entirely possible to be aware of a wealth gap but to have your own possibly not very realistic ideas about why it exists. But being aware of the extent of the gap is better than nothing, and I think there are people in many parts of the country who simply have no idea.
 
Ms Ordinary said:
I remember when his tagline was 'part of the problem' :eek: cos I think that was on a thread like this at least 8 years ago) but that's still how I think of his name in my head... "Newbie: part of the problem" :D.
Click to expand...
Yes, some really old poster taglines still stick in my mind too. 'Dour Scots Wanker' was one particular fave!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
House prices in Brixton
Replies
18
Views
2K
Shippou-Sensei
Shippou-Sensei
editor
Cyclist killed in Brixton
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
T & P
T & P
blameless77
After work pint in Brixton?
Replies
12
Views
758
editor
editor
isvicthere?
film about brixton by zazza the italian (scroll through the crap camden bit) with English subtitles.
Replies
1
Views
432
isvicthere?
isvicthere?
editor
Homophobia in Brixton
2
Replies
38
Views
5K
Tulster218
T
Back
Top Bottom